Joe Bryan on the move

[redysteadygo1]

6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

This Is a good summary. My question would be, what do people expect from Joe? If he was good at all those things he wouldn't be here. That said, he attracting attention from bigger clubs despite his flaws. The argument about his best position I think is overblown as well. He's definitely not a out and out winger. I think his worst performances have been there. I think his best and most consistent performances have been in CM. At LB, he has had ups and downs but when we have possession and are on top of teams he's one of the better on the league imo. Full back is probably the toughest position in the league to play. The amount of pacy tricky wingers is unreal and real quality there. He will only get better there. 

Personally, I think he'd be our biggest loss over the past few seasons. Look at players like Freeman, Cunningham and Ayling. All have moved on and done well making us think what if? Now this could be a change of scenery that these players have kicked on but I think Joe would be better than all of those. Sell Joe and I could see him celebrating at Wembley in a years time going to the premier league and as a left back. He has his flaws but we need to persevere and make him better. 

As he?

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

This Is a good summary. My question would be, what do people expect from Joe? If he was good at all those things he wouldn't be here. That said, he attracting attention from bigger clubs despite his flaws. The argument about his best position I think is overblown as well. He's definitely not a out and out winger. I think his worst performances have been there. I think his best and most consistent performances have been in CM. At LB, he has had ups and downs but when we have possession and are on top of teams he's one of the better on the league imo. Full back is probably the toughest position in the league to play. The amount of pacy tricky wingers is unreal and real quality there. He will only get better there. 

Personally, I think he'd be our biggest loss over the past few seasons. Look at players like Freeman, Cunningham and Ayling. All have moved on and done well making us think what if? Now this could be a change of scenery that these players have kicked on but I think Joe would be better than all of those. Sell Joe and I could see him celebrating at Wembley in a years time going to the premier league and as a left back. He has his flaws but we need to persevere and make him better. 

And Williams - Blackburn's POTY.

And plenty of others too, recently, Liam Moore, not good enough for us (not my view), but so bad that he's about to play in the play-off final.  Pearce, played consistently in a middle to top half Derby side all season.

 

[JoeAman08]

Just now, Davefevs said:

And Williams - Blackburn's POTY.

And plenty of others too, recently, Liam Moore, not good enough for us (not my view), but so bad that he's about to play in the play-off final.  Pearce, played consistently in a middle to top half Derby side all season.

 

Callum Robinson seems the list goes on. Still think Joe would come back to bite us the hardest. 

 

25 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

As he?

A few goals and assists in 3 months. Probably twice the production he had here this season. He may not be the highest on the list of ex players performing well or someone we will necessarily miss but think he's gone on to do well and possibly better than he did here. 

[E.G.Red]

If Joe Bryan does go, what about Mark Marshall  from Bradford their player of the year. and a fans favourite.?He will be disappointed to lose out today to Millwall in the play off final and I think he could do a good job in the Championship. Also I think he only has 1yr left on his contract.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, E.G.Red said:

If Joe Bryan does go, what about Mark Marshall  from Bradford their player of the year. and a fans favourite.?He will be disappointed to lose out today to Millwall in the play off final and I think he could do a good job in the Championship. Also I think he only has 1yr left on his contract.

As LB replacement?  Isn't he winger?

[Cowshed]

5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's not a 'stick to beat him with' but *could* be a contributory factor on why his drive for the game might be less than say Gabriel Jesus coming from a slum in Sao Paolo with no other way out of poverty than football.

It could also be not. Consider Joe Bryans drive to be a professional football could also be immense. Out of thousands of kids playing football only a tiny fraction reach academies. Out of a 100 kids 2-4 will receive a contract, and again only a minority progress further. Joe Bryan is that one of that minute group that has progressed. Joe Bryan socio economic background may have made it even more unlikely that he would be that one of that minute group.

If it was so easy all of us would be pros, but the truth is we do not have the will to do the graft.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

It could also be not. Consider Joe Bryans drive to be a professional football could also be immense. Out of thousands of kids playing football only a tiny fraction reach academies. Out of a 100 kids 2-4 will receive a contract, and again only a minority progress further. Joe Bryan is that one of that minute group that has progressed. Joe Bryan socio economic background may have made it even more unlikely that he would be that one of that minute group.

If it was so easy all of us would be pros, but the truth is we do not have the will to do the graft.

Yep that is correct of course, none of us know really. It's just a general discussion point about a possible reason that *could* explain his inconsistency. 

[samo II]

If Bryan is to go, then fair play to him; has put in the miles for us since debut, and will remember him fondly for being part of the double-winners, especially as he came through the ranks.

I do question how good he'd be for any Premier League side, though.  I'm convinced he's not got the right mind for playing full back against the better sides in this division, let alone a step up, and while rate him as an left winger in this league, can't see him doing the same job against Premier League full backs.

Hope he stays, as I think he adds something to us, but I think he's far, far from irreplaceable, be that at left back or left wing.

Would be surprised if we left him go without a hefty fee, thanks to his contract and the fact home-grown young English players now have added value to Premier League sides, and think the money we'd require might put off any suitors tbh.

[BRISTOL86]

Obviously it's Johnson's fault JB hasnt kicked on. 

I mean it was Johnson who sold a much better left back to accommodate Joe, wasn't it. 

No?

[Super]

Jack of all trades master of none?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

I would still be extremely surprised if Joe Bryan were to leave.  He is a Bristol boy; does not strike me (I may be wrong of course) as primarily motivated by money; and he really represents everything we are trying to do at the moment.  We are meant to be developing young players for our own benefit, not the benefit of our clubs.  I accept that Joe has had a patchy season, but I would rather keep him and see him get better then have any of the alternatives suggested on this thread.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Just now, Super said:

Jack of all trades master of none?

No, young player leading his trade and getting better.

[Cowshed]

7 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Yep that is correct of course, none of us know really. It's just a general discussion point about a possible reason that *could* explain his inconsistency. 

And there are posts in this thread that state he is awful, plays in his comfort zone ... Flawed.

There is something that people should know is that Joe Bryan must have a growth mindset, a steely resolve to become a football player. A resolve that few possess.

[Super]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

No, young player leading his trade and getting better.

Is he getting better? 

[Cowshed]

Just now, Super said:

Is he getting better? 

Are Bristol City?

I think it is fairer to look at Joe Bryan in a consistent team, with consistent tactics and team selection to judge.

Personally I would like to see Joe Bryan playing in the above in front of a capable left back.

[Phileas Fogg]

15 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

And there are posts in this thread that state he is awful, plays in his comfort zone ... Flawed.

No where int his thread has anyone said he 'is' awful. People have described individual performances or periods of form as awful so you're misconstruing it there.

Whether he plays in his comfort zone or not is subjective, not necessarily flawed.

Quote

There is something that people should know is that Joe Bryan must have a growth mindset, a steely resolve to become a football player. A resolve that few possess.

You've missed the point here. What's being questioned, as a more general discussion point, is whether players from tougher or poorer upbringings have more of that resolve than those from backgrounds like Bryan's. 

Obviously to make it as a pro you have to have it, but some may have more of that mindset due to their history.

[Cowshed]

7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

No where int his thread has anyone said he 'is' awful. People have described individual performances or periods of form as awful so you're misconstruing it there.

Whether he plays in his comfort zone or not is subjective, not necessarily flawed.

You've missed the point here. What's being questioned, as a more general discussion point, is whether players from tougher or poorer upbringings have more of that resolve than those from backgrounds like Bryan's. 

Obviously to make it as a pro you have to have it, but some may have more of that mindset due to their history.

As a coach playing and training in the comfort zone = flawed/lazy. Throughout this thread there are comments that are not complimentary towards Joe Bryan. It is not misconstruing anything to suggest there are constant negative views surrounding Joe Bryan in numerous threads.

I did not miss that point. I provided an alternative that Joe Bryan could actually be an outliner due to having to overcome barriers others have not - Class. 

[Phileas Fogg]

52 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

As a coach playing and training in the comfort zone = flawed/lazy. Throughout this thread there are comments that are not complimentary towards Joe Bryan. It is not misconstruing anything to suggest there are constant negative views surrounding Joe Bryan in numerous threads.

'Uncomplimentary comments' are a bit different from saying he 'is awful', which no one has said. So yes you're misconstruing people's views. 

Quote

I did not miss that point. I provided an alternative that Joe Bryan could actually be an outliner due to having to overcome barriers others have not - Class. 

I don't think you quite grasped it but yes perhaps, unusual way to look at it though.. it's not really a disadvantage in the same way as Gabriel Jesus coming from poverty though..

[Trueredsupporter]

On ‎19‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 10:07, Nibor said:

Bryan's a good player at this level who had a run of indifferent form towards the end of the season, those writing him off on that basis are really very silly.  He's a left midfielder who can fill in at left back not a specialist full back, he can also play wing back and our alternative is Scott Golbourne who has in my opinion been well short of the required standard.  I'd like to see Joe playing left midfield next season with a real left back behind him and I think he'd do well in a settled side.  I wonder if we might see Hodor make the left back role his own over time.  I certainly think if we were to let Bryan leave we'd be making a mistake as it's notoriously difficult to find natural left sided players, we'd struggle to get one with his potential.

Bang on. a talented player who had indifferent form in a team which was playing to put it politely indifferent.  think with better behind him would create a real improvement.

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

aUncomplimentary comments' are a bit different from saying he 'is awful', which no one has said. So yes you're misconstruing people's views. 

I don't think you quite grasped it but yes perhaps, unusual way to look at it though.. it's not really a disadvantage in the same way as Gabriel Jesus coming from poverty though..

Read through the thread again. There are posters on this thread unable to post anything positive abut Joe Bryan.

Another poster picked up on your reverse snobbery. I do not think you have grasped it. If as you suggest Joe Bryans nice background disadvantaged him, he must have worked even harder than his peers to become a pro to overcome that same disadvantage, and its associated perceptions.

I do not think it is necessary to mention his background/class at all. His well rounded skills are created via hard work. Hopefully Bristol City will be the home of  those skills being put to their best use.

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Read through the thread again. There are posters on this thread unable to post anything positive abut Joe Bryan.

Another poster picked up on your reverse snobbery. I do not think you have grasped it. If as you suggest Joe Bryans nice background disadvantaged him, he must have worked even harder than his peers to become a pro to overcome that same disadvantage, and its associated perceptions.

I do not think it is necessary to mention his background/class at all. His well rounded skills are created via hard work. Hopefully Bristol City will be the home of  those skills being put to their best use.

Think you are totally over reacting to a pretty sensible discussion about one of our players

You are obviously a very big JB fan , or it has stirred up some deep issue as your defence of him and snipes at PF in particular are  , for me , somewhat bizarre and unjustified

[Cowshed]

8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Think you are totally over reacting to a pretty sensible discussion about one of our players

You are obviously a very big JB fan , or it has stirred up some deep issue as your defence of him and snipes at PF in particular are  , for me , somewhat bizarre and unjustified

No I speak as a licenced coach and with a Son at an academy. I witness lads putting their life and soul into football. A minute number of kids become pros. Posters implying due to class a player is soft, too nice .. Is a mite disrespectful to the work and massive sacrifices that individual has made. That is bizarre and unjustified.

If it was all so easy, we could all could do it, but the truth it is us that lack the will.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

25 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Read through the thread again. There are posters on this thread unable to post anything positive abut Joe Bryan.

That may be so, but his is a football forum and people generally don't rate players and others do.. not a big deal.

You said people said he's 'awful' which they haven't. That's what I'm picking up on as it's a very strong word to use.. and people haven't. They've described performances or form as 'awful' which is another thing altogether.

Quote

Another poster picked up on your reverse snobbery. I do not think you have grasped it.

Not intentional, maybe you've misunderstood. I was referring to a specific blog which weighted up whether player background/academies in 'nice' places are more successful or not. I would try to link it but I read it ages ago.

Obviously you can't apply it to all players, but as a general rule - if you had to pick who had the most 'drive' to be a footballer out of two players of equal ability.. one player lived in leafy northern Devon and was privately educated and the other was from the Brazilian favela.. I know who I would pick. 

Quote

If as you suggest Joe Bryans nice background disadvantaged him, he must have worked even harder than his peers to become a pro to overcome that same disadvantage, and its associated perceptions.

Not necessarily, I think you're reading into it far too much considering it was a minor discussion point.

Quote

I do not think it is necessary to mention his background/class at all. His well rounded skills are created via hard work. Hopefully Bristol City will be the home of  those skills being put to their best use.

Well, a few posters have previously questioned whether a change of scenery would help him kick on. If he's stagnating a bit and getting too comfortable, I think it is a factor. 

[Cowshed]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Obviously you can't apply it to all players, but as a general rule - if you had to pick who had the most 'drive' to be a footballer out of two players of equal ability.. one player lived in leafy northern Devon and was privately educated and the other was from the Brazilian favela.. I know who I would pick. 

.

The one with the physical, psychological, and tactical attributes obviously.

[Trueredsupporter]

13 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Obviously you can't apply it to all players, but as a general rule - if you had to pick who had the most 'drive' to be a footballer out of two players of equal ability.. one player lived in leafy northern Devon and was privately educated and the other was from the Brazilian favela.. I know who I would pick. 

 

Pirlo was privately educated and middle class..

[petehinton]

I'm not sure how people can try and correlate a footballer being private schooled/coming from an affluent family, to not being able to cross very well 

[Phileas Fogg]

14 minutes ago, petehinton said:

I'm not sure how people can try and correlate a footballer being private schooled/coming from an affluent family, to not being able to cross very well 

 

1 hour ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Pirlo was privately educated and middle class..

You've both missed the point somewhat, it's not a 'no good footballers are from middle class backgrounds' point, because that's not true. 

In short, it's about whether a footballer who's grown up with more options than JUST their footballing ability would have the same drive as one from a poorer background. 

I don't necessarily think one way or the other, just thought it was interesting to discuss considering Joe's background and suggestions he's beginning to stagnate in familiar surroundings. Seems people either don't understood what I've wrote, or are choosing to misconstrue it for some reason.

 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Pirlo was privately educated and middle class..

Good point and he never played for City .

[Trueredsupporter]

13 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 

You've both missed the point somewhat, it's not a 'no good footballers are from middle class backgrounds' point, because that's not true. 

In short, it's about whether a footballer who's grown up with more options than JUST their footballing ability would have the same drive as one from a poorer background. 

I don't necessarily think one way or the other, just thought it was interesting to discuss considering Joe's background and suggestions he's beginning to stagnate in familiar surroundings. Seems people either don't understood what I've wrote, or are choosing to misconstrue it for some reason.

 

you said which one you would pick. your general rule was not the middle class one v a player from a poor background as the middle class one would have less drive!!

[Phileas Fogg]

15 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

you said which one you would pick. your general rule was not the middle class one v a player from a poor background as the middle class one would have less drive!!

Well you've completely misunderstood the nuances of the point then. I can't be bothered to spell it out to you either, was just a theoretical example to help someone else understand my point.

This debate over a minor discussion point is rapidly digressing so much that the original intended point has been lost. I'll leave it here. I'll see if I can find the original blog because it was an interesting read.