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Manchester Arena Explosion (Merged)


JasonM88

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12 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

There are many strands of islam.

There is the Ahmadiyya who reach out to all faiths.  These are the ones who sell poppies on Remembrance Sunday; this was the faith of the Glasgow shopkeeper who was murdered by another muslim.

There are the Shia; the major branch of reform islam.  This is the main faith or Iran.  Modern, open, reaching out to the west.  The Iran that was bizarrely identified as the main terrorist threat by Trump.  Mind when you are getting hundreds of billions of dollars of contracts from their enemy, Saudi Arabia, you play to the gallery. Money talks.

When you hear of blasts in mosques and massacres in Pakistan it is the Shia who are being killed by Sunnis.

Then there is Sunni.  Unreformed and 80%+ of muslims.  ISIS is Sunni.  Every muslim terrorist in Europe is Sunni.

And then there are the out and out death cults within Sunni islam.  Salafism and Wahhabism.

I will give you the unabridged Wiki description of that last:

This is the sect that Saudi Arabia exports to the world.  When they "donate" money for a mosque this is what they are exporting.

 

So when I say "muslims" it is to Sunnis and particularly their extreme branches to which I refer.

I would happily have an Ahmadiyya muslim living next door to me; they'd probably cut my grass and clean my car when I was out.  I would also be fine living next to a Shia; I have known Iranians in Britain.  All perfectly nice people.  They don't grow beards, wear pyjamas, and threaten people on street corners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches

 

And for those people who see it as just another interchangeable religion compare the founder of Christianity, Jesus Christ, who never even hit anybody, or Buddha with his peaceful contemplation of the universe, with good old Mo who had sex with a nne year old girl and killed many.  You don't need to look far for their inspiration.

 

I bow to your greater knowledge and understanding of the topic. Sadly you are in the minority and as the Muslim guy at the gym said today "I suppose I will get the blame for this again"

the greater understanding you show is commendable and I salute you.

 

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3 hours ago, BanburyRed said:

What kind of mixed up, ****** up planet are we living on? That children and teenagers can't go to a simple pop concert? It's beyond my comprehension.

Condolences to those affected and the victims, RIP.

And to the people of Manchester, offering rooms to those stranded by this appalling attack.

These scumbags can't be allowed to win.

Too late. They are winning and it's not going to get better any time soon. 

Just waiting for them to report that the suspect was "know to police" now. 

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just saw this on the sky news website. I'm just lost for words..

09:56

 
 

 

Witness: I saw a little girl... she had no legs

A rough sleeper has tearfully described the moment a woman died in his arms after the suicide bombing at the Manchester Arena.

Chris Parker, 33, was in the foyer area of the venue and recalls: "Everyone was piling out, all happy and everything else. As people were coming out of the glass doors I heard a bang and within a split second I saw a white flash, then smoke and then I heard screaming.

"It knocked me to the floor and then I got up and instead of running away my gut instinct was to run back and try and help.

"There was people lying on the floor everywhere.

"I saw a little girl... she had no legs. I wrapped her in one of the merchandise T-shirts and I said 'where is your mum and daddy?' She said 'my dad is at work, my mum is up there'."

He said he thought the child's mother had died from her injuries.

Mr Parker said he also tended to a woman aged in her 60s with serious leg and head injuries.

He said: "She passed away in my arms. She was in her 60s and said she had been with her family.

"I haven't stopped crying.

"The most shocking part of it is that it was a kids' concert.

"There were nuts and bolts all over the floor. People had holes in their back.

"It's the screams I can't get over and the smell... I don't like to say it but it smelled like burning flesh.

"I don't think anything has sunk in yet. It's just shock."

 

 
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3 hours ago, brizzlelou said:

Not Racist!!! Is Islam a race!? No! Hate how people use that horrible word so ******* flippantly! 

I understand you're angry, as am I over the horrific situation but it is "cultural" racism, You see we are all one race (Humans)  so yes we shouldnt use the word, but we do. We use it because culturally we are different, that was the kind of "racism" I meant here.

A guy called Craig Considine said it as:

"It is true that Muslims are not a race. The word “Muslim” itself connects to followers of Islam, a world religion — not a “race.” Muslims are a diverse religious grouping, and, in fact, one of the most heterogeneous populations in the world. In theory, the ummah - or global Muslim community - is made up of many “races.” Moreover, not all Muslims are simply born “Muslim,” like people are born White or Black. Muslim identity is something that one can acquire through conversion. In this sense, Muslim identity is nurtured and not natured.

Since I am focusing on the subject of identity and race, let me extend this discussion to other social groupings.

If Muslims are not a race, than which group is? Some people might immediately point to Black people, and say, “that is definitely a race. Look at their skin color.” But, to be exact, Black people are not a race either. Neither, for that matter, are White people.

You see, there is no such thing as race or races, traditionally understood. Scientists long ago proved that race is not a biological reality but a myth, a socially constructed concept. Yet, despite the data, human beings have been programmed to associate specific things to certain “racial groups”; things like intelligence, work ethic, family values, and behavior. As such, we have been brainwashed to think that some groups are inherently better than others, and that the White race — to be frank — is better than all."

He then goes on to say:

"Treating Muslims poorly because they are Muslim is racism. It is that simple. If someone gives a Muslim women wearing the hijab a dirty look, sorry, but you are racist. If someone assaults a Muslim woman wearing the hijab — which has recently happened in Toronto — yeah, you are a racist. Time to face the music."

The full article is here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/muslims-are-not-a-race_b_8591660.html

As I said, we are all ONE race IE Humans, the Human race, but this IS the word to use because we have made it the word to use. So yes I used the word "racist" in my post because the dude I was quoting was tarnishing all Muslims under the same brush. Hence why I said it was harsh and "racist"

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There can be no justification for this most appalling atrocity.  We don't know the full details but the police in Manchester are saying it was a terrorist attack.  There are also stories of tremendous solidarity, help and support from the local community.  It only takes one man with a bomb to make a place unlivable - Please, don't allow this attack to divide us!!

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56 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

I understand you're angry, as am I over the horrific situation but it is "cultural" racism, You see we are all one race (Humans)  so yes we shouldnt use the word, but we do. We use it because culturally we are different, that was the kind of "racism" I meant here.

A guy called Craig Considine said it as:

Citing Considine about that issue is about as impartial as Nick Griffin's position on immigration. It's basically invalid if it comes from him as it's so bias.

Just watched May's statement, said pretty much what you'd expect her to in the circumstances. The police have the identity of the attacker apparently. Unclear if he acted alone.

 

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Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

Citing Considine about that issue is about as impartial as Nick Griffin's position on immigration. It's basically invalid if it comes from him as it's so bias. The rest of your response was just waffle.

Just watched May's statement, said pretty much what you'd expect her to in the circumstances. The police have the identity of the attacker apparently. Unclear if he acted alone.

Not really, because brizzlelou said how could I use such a word. It is true, we shouldnt use such words, but we do. Why do footballers wear armbands saying "Say NO to racism" then? When its all about skin colour and faith, yet despite we all belonging to the same race...

You are correct in regards to as we dont know what kind of bomber he was, but he was still human at the end of the day, and I also was going on about how not everyone of a faith/skin colour are the same, so we use the word.

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4 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

Not really, because brizzlelou said how could I use such a word. It is true, we shouldnt use such words, but we do. Why do footballers wear armbands saying "Say NO to racism" then? When its all about skin colour and faith, yet despite we all belonging to the same race...

No, Considine is famously pro-Muslim so anything he says or writes will reflect that. The article you shared of his, which reflects his pro-Muslim viewpoint, isn't hard evidence about racism existing/not existing - just his opinion. It's like sharing only Nick Griffin's views on immigration and taking it as 100% correct without accounting for bias.

Quote

You are correct in regards to as we dont know what kind of bomber he was, but he was still human at the end of the day, and I also was going on about how not everyone of a faith/skin colour are the same, so we use the word.

What?

 

Anyway, I feel now is not the time to debate these issues. People are still being treated and the situation is still ongoing so apologies for making the topic political when that's not the intended purpose. 

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Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

No, Considine is famously pro-Muslim so anything he says or writes will reflect that. The article you shared of his, which reflects his pro-Muslim viewpoint, isn't hard evidence about racism existing/not existing - just his opinion. It's like sharing only Nick Griffin's views on immigration and taking it as 100% correct without accounting for bias.

What?

 

Anyway, I feel now is not the time to debate these issues. People are still being treated so apologies for making the topic political when that's not the intended purpose. 

But he makes a great point, pro Muslim or not, No one can be racist can they, since we are all of one race.

Its akin to gingers, everyone says they have no souls, thats "racist" to gingers. All I am saying is, its wrong to tarnish everyone of a particular skin colour/faith hell hair colour under one image, that they're ALL so and so's of whatever people say about them, which is what eddie hitler said/going on about when he himself was determined it was a Muslim bloke that did it and we should treat em all the same. That was all.

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5 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I am amazed by how strongly political correctness has affected people even on here; it's like 1984 and thought crime.

We can all wait a few days for the usual weasel words from the police: history of mental illness, attacking alone etc. etc.

Well I will say it: it was a muslim that killed these kids and they did it because they were a muslim.

 

3 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

But he makes a great point, pro Muslim or not, No one can be racist can they, since we are all of one race.

Its akin to gingers, everyone says they have no souls, thats "racist" to gingers. All I am saying is, its wrong to tarnish everyone of a particular skin colour/faith hell hair colour under one image, that they're ALL so and so's of whatever people say about them, which is what eddie hitler said/going on about when he himself was determined it was a Muslim bloke that did it and we should treat em all the same. That was all.

I won't be so impolite as to say "go back and read my post" so I have quoted it above.  I am not saying what you abscribe to me but you wish to think that I am as it gives you a great opportunity to virtue signal.

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1 hour ago, reddogkev said:

But he's already deceased, what else can be done?

Close down the mosque he uses, 

put his family in prison for 10 years each, brothers, sisters, mother, father, wife's. 

The only people that are going to be able to police these lunatics, are the people close to them, fellow mosque members and family, they just need stronger insensitive to get involved, and help stamp it out, the thought of ten years in nick and no where to pray should do the trick. 

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5 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Well I will say it: it was a muslim that killed these kids and they did it because they were a muslim.

I can read English fine thanks. I read the above, that was what YOU said.

You were tarnishing every muslim here, calling them ALL suicide bombers.

No sort of picture replies will change that.

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Just now, CrazyInWeston said:

I can read English fine thanks. I read the above, that was what YOU said.

You were tarnishing every muslim here, calling them ALL suicide bombers.

No sort of picture replies will change that.

Maybe try writing it down using different words as that often helps when dealing with apparently complicated concepts.

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Very numb watching the news this morning: this time terror hit a city that I lived in for many years, a city that I still I love and gave me many good memories, a city that is home to many good friends, and targeted a demographic that beggars belief.

I am due in Manchester this coming weekend for a race: going to be an odd atmosphere up there.

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I suspect the very fact that we seem (some seem) to be arguing amongst ourselves in this little Bristol City thread (meaning this will be all over a million different and bigger threads) over a horrific and devastating attack is exactly what the perpetrator wanted?

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The UK has not seen a bomb attack like the Manchester outrage since 2005 for three simple reasons:

  1. It takes some expertise, which is difficult to come by without help.
  2. It requires a lot of planning and preparation, both of which increase the chances that MI5 and other agencies will discover what is going on.
  3. Individuals who are sufficiently organised to put the first two together and determined enough to see the plan through to its awful conclusion are very rare.

For more than a decade, the BBC Home Affairs Unit has monitored every single terrorist incident, attempted or failed, that has made it into the public domain.

Quite simply, most of the people we have seen dragged through the courts are not capable of this kind of incident.

Many aspire to "martyrdom" and talk about building bombs.

But they are either, to be frank, too stupid and disorganised to turn their fantasies into reality or, alternatively, they get caught because they don't know how to cover their tracks.

Most jihadists discount a bomb attack at the early stages: they realise that it's too difficult to pull off.

They might accidentally kill themselves while making the device.

Their purchasing patterns might raise suspicions in a local pharmacy or, online, prompt GCHQ to have a closer look at their digital life.

They may turn to someone else for help who, unbeknown to both, is already on the MI5 radar.

And so, as the 2013 killing of Fusilier Lee Rigby showed - four years to the day before the Manchester attack - most aspiring attackers opt for a different course.

Vehicles and knives became the weapons of choice.

We saw it in 2014 when a London man planned a knife attack to coincide with the annual act of remembrance.

We saw it again with the Khalid Masood Westminster attack.

Khalid Masood being treated at the scene of the Westminster attack
 

But while knives and vehicles - and to a lesser extent guns - have featured in recent terrorism plots, there are people who still want to build bombs to attack crowded places.

Just recently, the younger brother of the man in the Remembrance Sunday incident pleaded guilty to trying to find bomb-making help - and one of his potential targets was an Elton John concert.

So the big question for investigators is given that bomb-making requires expertise, how did the attacker get hold of such a device?

There are three possible sources:

  • He was taught how to make it
  • He taught himself
  • He was provided with the device by someone else

Sophisticated devices

If he was taught, this could point to someone who has returned from so-called Islamic State territory in Syria and Iraq.

The militants have constructed devices involving the type of DIY shrapnel of metal nuts that has been reported from the scene at the Manchester Arena.

Al-Qaeda and its offshoots have deployed those devices too.

It is less likely that it is someone recently returned from an al-Qaeda camp in Pakistan or Afghanistan as that's a harder journey to make - but don't rule it out.

Aftermath of Manchester Arena explosion
 

Either way, these are sophisticated devices, particularly if made to a well-known recipe that is circulated among extremists.

It takes engineering skill.

If he taught himself, then how did he go about it?

Such an outcome would demonstrate how difficult it is to learn about a threat if the individual is acting entirely alone and taking exceptionally well planned precautions to avoid surveillance.

It's not hard to find bomb-making plans online - don't go looking, it's an offence to possess this information - but many of them are useless.

So, again, the attacker would have spent a long time thinking and planning this - and that reduces the likelihood that he was acting entirely alone.

The third scenario is the worst-possible because it would point to an active bomb-making technician on the loose in the UK.

Someone who is completely beneath the security services radar.

Someone who has found ways of reaching out to potential recruits without compromising themselves.

Someone who could strike again.

Vital intelligence

So, this is very much a manhunt - even though nobody may know for sure at this stage who, if anyone, they are actually hunting.

Forensic teams
 

The police believe they know the identity of the attacker - this is a very early breakthrough. It took days back in 2005 for the police to be sure who carried out the London attacks.

Right now inside Thames House, the home of MI5, and its regional units, a large post-incident operation will be under way. Officers, supported by GCHQ and where necessary counterparts in foreign agencies, will be examining any piece of intelligence to build a picture of the attacker and those around him.

The North West Counter Terrorism Unit, a joint team of MI5 and police officers, will be looking at anything they can glean from the attacker's own devices. Search teams will identify addresses to search.

Experts from the national Forensic Explosives Laboratory in Kent will begin the astonishingly difficult work of recovering the remains of the device so they can reconstruct it. These scientists have performed this task on every bomb recovered in modern times.

What they find may, in time, yield vital intelligence - such as the origins of the bomb recipe or its technical construction.

Those details will in turn create new leads - perhaps linking the attacker to a specific group.

It may take months for the full picture to emerge.

But first things first: the police will be racing to work out if this was a lone wolf or part of a cell that's still out there.

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Just now, Eddie Hitler said:

Maybe try writing it down using different words as that often helps when dealing with apparently complicated concepts.

What are you on about now? Writing it down? It'll say the same thing as you have already said.

There are plenty "muslims" living in peace in the UK and around the world.

You declared the act was done by a muslim just because of the fact that they were a "muslim" 

Lets go back a few decades, most bombings in the UK were done by the IRA, would you then at the time been adamant that it was an Irish person just because of the fact they were Irish?

What is the complicated concept is you for thinking everyone of the same skin colour/hair colour/religion is the same, because you said it.

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Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

Saw that - apparently there were several that mentioned the arena - I'd be amazed if GCHQ hadn't picked that up with all their clever software programs

 

Apparently there has been messages targeting the singer and a couple of others going back to February time. "I haven't forgotten you, I'm going to get you type stuff" 

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1 hour ago, Rascal said:

Close down the mosque he uses, 

put his family in prison for 10 years each, brothers, sisters, mother, father, wife's. 

The only people that are going to be able to police these lunatics, are the people close to them, fellow mosque members and family, they just need stronger insensitive to get involved, and help stamp it out, the thought of ten years in nick and no where to pray should do the trick. 

I am certainly not responsible for what my family do. What a ridiculous suggestion.

Also close down his mosque? So affect hundreds of innocent Muslims because he is the same race, and if anything just incite hatred? 

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