Manchester Arena Explosion (Merged)

[CrazyInWeston]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And this from a scum sucking freelance American

Yes he said it last night, literally a few hours after.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just now, CrazyInWeston said:

Yes he said it last night, literally a few hours after.

What is the matter with people?, I really hope that people think twice before paying this idiot for any freelance work in the future.

[LondonBristolian]

37 minutes ago, Selred said:

The key word being child. 

Yes in some cases they have, and if the Mosque is radicalizing people then it 110% be shut down. But in this instant there has been no suggestion that this has been the case with this bomber, yet Rascal is calling for it to be shut.

The majority of radicalization is through the internet, on this logic we shut that down as well.

Indeed. In the early 90s there were issues at Mosques, most famously in Finsburu Park, with radical preachers. Much of the problem was that the people who ran mosques either misunderstood this was the problem or, as this was a time of large scale terrorist attacks, new they had preachers who took a hardline but misunderstood the severity. 

 

Nowadays anyone who runs a mosque knows is aware of the risk of radical preachers, aware of the risk of being associated with radical preachers and aware they are going to be under constant scrutiny. As a result Radicalisation rarely takes place in mosques and, to go a step further, around two thirds of people who join ISIS admit having very limited knowledge of the Koran. This is not to say they do not consider themselves Muslim but the mosques are not a hotbed of radicalisation and the misconception that people read the Koran and get radicalised falls apart given that most radical Islamists do not read the Koran in any detail. I believe stats also show around half of all people who carry out terrorist attacks are recent recruits to Islam and almost all the others are people who recommitted to their faith after periods of 'non-Islamic' behaviour.

 

As you say the Internet - along with universities, unofficial community centres and prisons - tend to be the main source of radicalisation. These are far harder to shut down. Closing mosques is unlikely to have any practical impact at all.

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

If there was a bomb in London in the 1980s I would have said that it was done by somebody Irish before waiting for the police to release that news.

I won't try to explain this again as it's clearly beyond you.

 

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

And without getting embroiled in this -

I should say In both instances I'd think the same as you Eddie

Perhaps we are the only ones

Does that mean I thought anything but a tiny minority of  , let alone all Irish were terrorists or all Muslims are , - give me strength   

of course not

Indeed and this is the key point. It is plainly absurd to pull anyone up for assuming the prepetrator of a terrorist attack is most likely to be inspired by Islamic radicalism. Given most terrorist attacks today are inspired by Islamic radicalisation, it is natural to fear this may again be the case here. In much the same way it clearly was most logical to assume terror attacks in the 80s and 90s related to Irish nationalism.

But, as @BobBobSuperBob says, the key distinction is that "most terrorists are likely to consider themselves as Muslim" is not the same as saying "most Muslims are likely to be terrorists".

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said:

What is the matter with people?, I really hope that people think twice before paying this idiot for any freelance work in the future.

I REALLY dont want to sound wrong here but this is OTIB and there is every reason whatever I say can be put in the wrong way.

Some people actually find grief in humour. Yes this was an awful act committed by God knows who, but like grief, some people can mourn in humour. When my Gran died a few years ago, I never cried, my Grandad last yr, I never cried. Infact I'm okay with their deaths, showed no emotion at all despite rest of the family crying their eyes out. Am I heartless? Is my heart made of stone? I showed no emotion towards it, all I can do is laugh at the jokes they used to tell me over the years when I remember them however cheesy and stupid they were. Is this my way of grief and mourning? Who knows.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, CrazyInWeston said:

I REALLY dont want to sound wrong here but this is OTIB and there is every reason whatever I say can be put in the wrong way.

Some people actually find grief in humour. Yes this was an awful act committed by God knows who, but like grief, some people can mourn in humour. When my Gran died a few years ago, I never cried, my Grandad last yr, I never cried. Infact I'm okay with their deaths, showed no emotion at all despite rest of the family crying their eyes out. Am I heartless? Is my heart made of stone? I showed no emotion towards it, all I can do is laugh at the jokes they used to tell me over the years when I remember them however cheesy and stupid they were. Is this my way of grief and mourning? Who knows.

No it's totally different.

The journalist in question has shown no remorse for judging the mood totally wrong and making that comment in dreadful taste. He's posted a tirade of bizarre tweets since when he'd be better off just deleting his account. I'm not really sure what he was setting out to achieve.

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, CrazyInWeston said:

I REALLY dont want to sound wrong here but this is OTIB and there is every reason whatever I say can be put in the wrong way.

Some people actually find grief in humour. Yes this was an awful act committed by God knows who, but like grief, some people can mourn in humour. When my Gran died a few years ago, I never cried, my Grandad last yr, I never cried. Infact I'm okay with their deaths, showed no emotion at all despite rest of the family crying their eyes out. Am I heartless? Is my heart made of stone? I showed no emotion towards it, all I can do is laugh at the jokes they used to tell me over the years when I remember them however cheesy and stupid they were. Is this my way of grief and mourning? Who knows.

Let's be honest here though - the journalist in question was not in grief of mourning. I agree with you that many people use black humour as a coping mechanism when something awful happens but a journalist of all people should be aware that any black humour in these circumstances should be kept away from a public place where relatives of those affected might see it.

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

No it's totally different.

The journalist in question has shown no remorse for judging the mood totally wrong and making that comment in dreadful taste. He's posted a tirade of bizarre tweets since when he'd be better off just deleting his account. I'm not really sure what he was setting out to achieve.

While what you say is true, you know it as well as I do, in 5yrs there will be a whole triad of jokes from tasteless people over this.

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

Let's be honest here though - the journalist in question was not in grief of mourning. I agree with you that many people use black humour as a coping mechanism when something awful happens but a journalist of all people should be aware that any black humour in these circumstances should be kept away from a public place where relatives of those affected might see it.

True but wait 5yrs. All sorts of jokes will appear

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, CrazyInWeston said:

While what you say is true, you know it as well as I do, in 5yrs there will be a whole triad of jokes from tasteless people over this.

No I don't think there will be

[LondonBristolian]

Just now, CrazyInWeston said:

True but wait 5yrs. All sorts of jokes will appear

Of course. That is inevitable. But the five years are key - it is very different to the heat of the moment. As an aside I used to know a school teacher who used to measure the severity of a horrific news incident for how long it took for horribly inappropriate jokes to be told in the playground. It was never longer than three weeks. But twelve year olds and grown journalists are very different. He should have known better.

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

No I don't think there will be

There are plenty of Bataclan jokes floating around from the terrorist shooting a year and a half back.

[gl1]

16 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

Today I had lunch in the sun with a muslim couple.  And fine people they were.

However mate, the part of your post I have highlighted is simply not true of Islam so he's either unaware of his holy book or he's not telling the truth. I'll leave it there for now.

No idea fella. I don't know any religious texts from any religious book. It may well do. If it does say it though what we saying here? That the Muslim faith encourages violence? So what we do do then? 

Who do we target? What does an IS State person look like? Who shall we blame? The guy from the gym? 

Not having a go fella. Just at s total loss what to do. However I do think saying how violent a religion doesn't help. 'They' may point to the Christian crusades if you really wanna see religious acts if violence. 

 

[CrazyInWeston]

2 minutes ago, gl1 said:

No idea fella. I don't know any religious texts from any religious book. It may well do. If it does say it though what we saying here? That the Muslim faith encourages violence? So what we do do then? 

Who do we target? What does an IS State person look like? Who shall we blame? The guy from the gym? 

Not having a go fella. Just at s total loss what to do. However I do think saying how violent a religion doesn't help. 'They' may point to the Christian crusades if you really wanna see religious acts if violence. 

 

This.

I said this from the get go yet I've been hounded for it by a certain member.

I also said it didnt make every one of them a terrorist but alas, fell on deaf ears.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, CrazyInWeston said:

OMG why do poeple have to be so LITERAL on this forum, I added dirty ffs, anyway you may well have, it still doesnt excuse your post for brandishing everyone following muslim the same now does it, because as you just said, you made a post in the past declaring which ones you liked, so why when you said the word "muslim" last night, you didnt separate these sects! As that word would declare all of them, seems to me you dont like any of them after all. Why not say Shias or Shiites or Sunnies? Saying Muslim on the whole means you imply no difference.

Why don't you just make posts up on his behalf and then you can get on your high horse some more

Quoting (Adding your selected extras) in the manner you did , regarding the subject you did is way way out of order IMO

Embarrassing

Says everything about your mindset trying to make the poster out to be something there is no evidence he is, and adding some very relevant words to create your case that has zero substance

as I said , embarrassing

Suggest you read the relevant posts a little closer and engage brain

[CrazyInWeston]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Why don't you just make posts up on his behalf and then you can get on your high horse some more

Quoting in the manner you did , regarding the subject you did is way way out of order IMO

Embarrassing

Says everything about your mindset trying to make the poster out to be something there is no evidence he is, and adding some very relevant words to support your case that has zero substance

Grow up

You might wanna grab your eyes, the're in danger. Everything Ive said isnt made up at all, and if Eddie Hitler and Brizzlelou hadnt reacted badly, it wouldnt have come to this, because all I was saying was not all muslims are terrorists. End it there. But they both had a problem with that. Please dont tell me you have a problem with it as well?

[gl1]

2 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

It's a massive and complex issue.  It does not alter the facts though - the bastard's actions were influenced by Islamic teaching. It doesn't make every muslim a terrorist, but there comes a point (and it will come) when ordinary people will have had enough.

 

 

Which is exactly what IS want. To segregate alienate each other so they can continue their vitriolic teaching. Well **** em. I'm not giving into their wishes to turn against each other. Not a bleeding heart liberal but they have said they want to disrupt our lives and create division. 

Tomorrow I will spot Panesh on the bench at the gym as ever. We will talk about gym, nutrition, sport and the usual rubbish. On Thursday I have tickets for Skunk Anansie. 

Am I going to change anything because of these scum? No sir I am not. 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, CrazyInWeston said:

You might wanna grab your eyes, the're in danger. Everything Ive said isnt made up at all, and if Eddie Hitler and Brizzlelou hadnt reacted badly, it wouldnt have come to this, because all I was saying was not all muslims are terrorists. End it there. But they both had a problem with that. Please dont tell me you have a problem with it as well?

Actually, @Eddie Hitler's points are clearly far too nuanced for you to grasp. Reading your posts back is akin to watching a dog chasing its own tail - I don't even know if you genuinely understand your own points, they're full of contradictions, straw man arguments and fallacy. 

I didn't want to get sucked into a debate like this really, but you can't go around calling people 'racist' without substance and not expect to be pulled up on it.

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

Actually, @Eddie Hitler's points are clearly far too nuanced for you to grasp. Reading your posts back is akin to watching a dog chasing its own tail - I don't even know if you genuinely understand your own points, they're full of contradictions, straw man arguments and fallacy. 

I didn't want to get sucked into a debate like this really, but you can't go around calling people 'racist' without substance and without expecting to be pulled up on it.

eddie hitler said it was committed by a muslim just because they WERE a muslim, thats his words and not mine. he's the racist.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

 

41 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

I REALLY dont want to sound wrong here but this is OTIB and there is every reason whatever I say can be put in the wrong way.

Some people actually find grief in humour. Yes this was an awful act committed by God knows who, but like grief, some people can mourn in humour. When my Gran died a few years ago, I never cried, my Grandad last yr, I never cried. Infact I'm okay with their deaths, showed no emotion at all despite rest of the family crying their eyes out. Am I heartless? Is my heart made of stone? I showed no emotion towards it, all I can do is laugh at the jokes they used to tell me over the years when I remember them however cheesy and stupid they were. Is this my way of grief and mourning? Who knows.

There is a huge difference between what is commonly known as 'trench' humour from armed forces/emergency services and irreverent thoughts about a passed loved one it's a pressure release believe me I know, but it is generally in private not for the whole world to see what a Dick a person might be because of inappropriate postings on social media.

41 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Let's be honest here though - the journalist in question was not in grief of mourning. I agree with you that many people use black humour as a coping mechanism when something awful happens but a journalist of all people should be aware that any black humour in these circumstances should be kept away from a public place where relatives of those affected might see it.

Spot on, this was dick trying and failing totally to prove that he was a clever dick, he is a moron.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, CrazyInWeston said:

You might wanna grab your eyes, the're in danger. Everything Ive said isnt made up at all, and if Eddie Hitler and Brizzlelou hadnt reacted badly, it wouldnt have come to this, because all I was saying was not all muslims are terrorists. End it there. But they both had a problem with that. Please dont tell me you have a problem with it as well?

Where do they 'have a problem with that' ?

You realise that, to date you are the only one who has an issue with what a number of posters have said incl @LondonBristolian  (Post 156 above) who explains it quite simply and eloquently

Try reading it

You are manufacturing an issue ( And an inflammatory one ) that quite simply does not exist 

Just so that I'm personally clear - I despise terrorists black , white , Muslim , Christian , male , female

If A bomb exploded in London or anywhere on mainland U.K. in the 70s I would think it's highly likely to be IRA

If a suicide bomber strikes in most of mainland Europe and certainly U.K. My first thought is it's likely to be the work of Radical Islamic Terrorists .... with me so far ?

I could have been / could be wrong ( and ready to hear / accept otherwise ) in both instances but the odds are overwhelming in my favour 

 

ill give you another example - If a suicide bomber strikes in Turkey , aware of various terrorist groups operating there Id wait to see who those responsible belong to

 

Making sense ?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

10 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

eddie hitler said it was committed by a muslim just because they WERE a muslim, thats his words and not mine. he's the racist.

Firstly muslims are not a race and secondly the perpetrators all 'claim' to be muslims, whether they are or not 'real' muslims is a whole other debate, but they are obviously not representative of the whole religion.

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

Where do they 'have a problem with that' ?

You realise that, to date you are the only one who has an issue with what a number of posters have said incl @LondonBristolian  (Post 156 above) who explains it quite simply and eloquently

Try reading it

You are manufacturing an issue ( And an inflammatory one ) that quite simply does not exist 

Just so that I'm personally clear - I despise terrorists black , white , Muslim , Christian , male , female

If A bomb exploded in London or anywhere on mainland U.K. in the 70s I would think it's highly likely to be IRA

If a suicide bomber strikes in most of mainland Europe and certainly U.K. My first thought is it's likely to be the work of Radical Islamic Terrorists .... with me so far ?

I could have been / could be wrong ( and ready to hear / accept otherwise ) in both instances but the odds are overwhelming in my favour 

 

ill give you another example - If a suicide bomber strikes in Turkey , aware of various terrorist groups operating there Id wait to see who those responsible belong to

 

Making sense ?

You make sense, you say you "think" eddie was adamant it WAS - a difference here, and thats prejudice, sure you had it too, but a think is different to an "is".

He also claimed he made posts declaring what part of muslim sects he liked vs what part he didnt, didnt separate that from his initial post did he, he said "muslim" meaning them all!

[Eddie Hitler]

8 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

eddie hitler said it was committed by a muslim just because they WERE a muslim, thats his words and not mine. he's the racist.

Is English not your first language or is it an attention span issue causing this problem with comprehension?

You seem to have incredible difficulty in reading and undertsanding posts.  Then you go on to invent things that people haven't said in order to back up your already weak position.

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Firstly muslims are not a race and secondly the perpetrators all 'claim' to be muslims, whether they are or not is a whole other debate, but they are obviously not representative of the whole religion.

Read my post stating why it is wrong to use the word "race" but we use the word anyway...I think its on the first page... maybe 2nd. I said Humans are a race, ONE race, no one can be racist, but we use the word anyway to mean other things.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just now, CrazyInWeston said:

Read my post stating why it is wrong to use the word "race" but we use the word anyway...I think its on the first page... maybe 2nd. I said Humans are a race, ONE race, no one can be racist, but we use the word anyway to mean other things.

Just as a matter of interest, when you heard the news, what was your first thought as to who carried had carried out the attack?.

[CrazyInWeston]

10 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

Well I will say it: it was a muslim that killed these kids and they did it because they were a muslim.

This is twice now, what is wrong with my English here? This is what you said. "did it because they were a muslim"

 

WHY IS EVERYONE ATTACKING ME? 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, CrazyInWeston said:

Read my post stating why it is wrong to use the word "race" but we use the word anyway...I think its on the first page... maybe 2nd. I said Humans are a race, ONE race, no one can be racist, but we use the word anyway to mean other things.

That nonsense post is just someone's opinion though, doesn't make it true. Not sure why you don't seem able to grasp that concept. You seem to see it as a fact for some reason.

[CrazyInWeston]

Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Just as a matter of interest, when you heard the news, what was your first thought as to who carried had carried out the attack?.

When I first heard of it, I had hints it was of the islamic state, BUT im holding my views just incase it isnt, been plenty of times its a lone person with no ties, you cannot hold prejudice.

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Just as a matter of interest, when you heard the news, what was your first thought as to who carried had carried out the attack?.

He won't have had one , was too busy adding phrases to people's posts to enhance his Shit stirring

Probably a routine 'Marcher against (Anything) ' I'd guess