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Manchester Arena Explosion (Merged)


JasonM88

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1 minute ago, CrazyInWeston said:

When I first heard of it, I had hints it was of the islamic state, BUT im holding my views just incase it isnt, been plenty of times its a lone person with no ties, you cannot hold prejudice.

Lone person with no ties - please give us a recent example

You clearly know some - as you suggest 'plenty of times' .........

 

 

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Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

That nonsense post is just someone's opinion though, doesn't make it true. Not sure why you don't seem able to grasp that concept. You seem to see it as a fact for some reason.

But it is true, Humans are humans, okay show me another "race" of humans then, and then show me why the word "racist" isnt applicable despite the meaning of the word, (cos we as humans made the word applicable) 

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3 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

This is twice now, what is wrong with my English here? This is what you said. "did it because they were a muslim"

 

WHY IS EVERYONE ATTACKING ME? 

What's so wrong with that? He's saying it's easy to predict the likely religion and motive of an attacker in these sort of tragedies given the sheer frequency of them. I'm sure almost to a man we'd have said the same if forced to make a prediction.

As a matter of fact he's correct of course, suspect has been named as Salman Abedi of Libyan origin.

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Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

Lone person with no ties - please give us a recent example

You clearly know some

 

Alright, all these student killings in american schools, they're used with a gun, just like the beach killing or nightclub killing, every time you will fear it isnt the scum and some lone person, how about that dude in new york last week, he was declared a madman.

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Just now, CrazyInWeston said:

Alright, all these student killings in american schools, they're used with a gun, just like the beach killing or nightclub killing, every time you will fear it isnt the scum and some lone person, how about that dude in new york last week, he was declared a madman.

in the UK?  c.mon

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1 minute ago, CrazyInWeston said:

Alright, all these student killings in american schools, they're used with a gun, just like the beach killing or nightclub killing, every time you will fear it isnt the scum and some lone person, how about that dude in new york last week, he was declared a madman.

So your best effort / example is student killings in US ?

:facepalm:

Or a incident in New York where immediately reports said were unlikely to be terrorist related

No a very good comparison to a suicide bomber in U.K. Is it ?  :grr:

I like most I would suggest on hearing reports of a student shooting in the US would think it's likely to be a disenchanted student or Native American with issues so IMO you've actually proved mine and others point

 

You , and apparently only you, just doesn't get it do you

Good job you weren't making a witness statement about 'something someone said '

 

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3 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

oh $%"£ this, fine attack me %$£ this website! you all clearly cannot see my side of things, easy to just attack me, piss off I cant be bothered. Goodbye OTIB.

If you go, she'll be glad. her ass must be pretty damned sore by now!

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6 minutes ago, CrazyInWeston said:

oh $%"£ this, fine attack me %$£ this website! you all clearly cannot see my side of things, easy to just attack me, piss off I cant be bothered. Goodbye OTIB.

scarlett-flounces-out-o.gif.b0fc190584dfefb2287739ec9068e37f.gif

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8 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

If I may ... you're missing the point.

Let me ask you (and you don't have to answer - I'm not aiming this at you or anyone, but it's something to think about) ...

How much Islam inspired terrorism would it take for you to say "Enough.  Enough of Islam in the UK"?

- A bomb in a football stadium?  

- A Bataclan in the UK?

- A dirty bomb in London / Birmingham / Wherever ?  

- Assassination of the PM?  

- More industrial scale rapes of English girls?

For me 'enough' was reached back in 2005.  

I think Islam should be removed from our society (people are free to do what they want in their own homes obviously).  As far as I can see this religion causes trouble wherever it goes. They have even spent centuries butchering each other.  And before anyone reading this thinks "The Crusades" ... Islam has not stopped, not reformed, not joined the bloody 19th century, let alone the 21st.

More is coming.  ISIS have promised this and they tend to deliver.

I'll leave you with one personal thought:

One innocent English life is worth more than the entire religion of Islam.

 

 

 

 

Not sure what the tipping point would be to be honest with you. 

 

Question for you. You say Islam should be removed from our society. 

1. How do you propose to do that

2. What is the penalty for still following Islam. 

3. How do you propose to police this moving forward?

4. How do we rewrite our current laws that promotes tolerance and the ability to follow whoever we choose

5. How would you stop the vigilantes which would see your new policy as carte Blanche to persecute people of a different persuasion 

6. After you have got rid of Islam who shall we target next?

 

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Amidst all the bickering about who is a racist and what conclusions people will come to, can I just state that there surely will be a special corner of hell reserved for someone who thinks that it is acceptable to blow himself up at a concert specifically aimed at children.  

I can't find any other words.

 

 

This morning, ISIS claimed responsibility and threatened further attacks, saying 'one of the caliphate's soldiers placed bombs within a gathering of the Crusaders'

Starting to wish I wasn't going to the Cup final on Saturday :(

But I know that I must - I will be nervous but I will not let these scum win.

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6 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

There are answers to all those questions and other questions (such as what would be the impact on foreign relations, etc), and I'd be happy at some stage to give my answers, but they are not the point at this stage. We are not even considering such action in this country (though having said that, I was in a lift at a train station today and there was a chap there who definitely had strong opinions about what to do with muslims ... because the times they are a changing).

We, as a country, need to answer a simple question - how much of this bullshit will we put-up with before we deal with it.

The point is, the protection of the people of the UK is paramount, above all considerations for the feelings of people that follow Islam.

 

 

 

 

What about if you are one of the "people of the UK" who also follows Islam?

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2 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

There are answers to all those questions and other questions (such as what would be the impact on foreign relations, etc), and I'd be happy at some stage to give my answers, but they are not the point at this stage. We are not even considering such action in this country (though having said that, I was in a lift at a train station today and there was a chap there who definitely had strong opinions about what to do with muslims ... because the times they are a changing).

We, as a country, need to answer a simple question - how much of this bullshit will we put-up with before we deal with it.

The point is, the protection of the people of the UK is paramount, above all considerations for the feelings of people that follow Islam.

 

 

 

 

The simple question is how do we stop it. The outlawing of Islam would not stop it overnight. 

Most of the perpetrators of acts in this country are British nationals and are already here. The removal of Islam and those that follow it is impossible. There is an answer but marginalising and outlawing of any faith will not work

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2 minutes ago, gl1 said:

The simple question is how do we stop it.

The outlawing of Islam would not stop it overnight. 

Most of the perpetrators of acts in this country are British nationals and are already here. The removal of Islam and those that follow it is impossible. There is an answer but marginalising and outlawing of any faith will not work

identify upcoming 'threats' (i.e. Persons) irrespective of religion or nationality

When sufficient evidence / indicators that they pose a real risk to the UK / to UK Citizens (by means of violence ) at some point in future

'Neutralise' them 

As you would in any 'conventional' war

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4 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-40018189

 

How sick and perverted do you have to be to go to the trouble of creating this and posting it?

I seriously despair of all the crazy and sick people there are in this world

Suggest either the one who was responsible for her murder , or an associate or family member

Sick

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54 minutes ago, redsfan said:

Amidst all the bickering about who is a racist and what conclusions people will come to, can I just state that there surely will be a special corner of hell reserved for someone who thinks that it is acceptable to blow himself up at a concert specifically aimed at children.  

I can't find any other words.

 

 

This morning, ISIS claimed responsibility and threatened further attacks, saying 'one of the caliphate's soldiers placed bombs within a gathering of the Crusaders'

Starting to wish I wasn't going to the Cup final on Saturday :(

But I know that I must - I will be nervous but I will not let these scum win.

Without wanting to be glib, IS claim responsibility for every terrorist attack going. Unless they reveal they knew specifics that are not in public then it is hard to know whether to take that claim of responsibility seriously. The security services obviously need to follow up and check nothing else is in the offing but you can be sure they will be on full alert on Saturday. Be vigilant of course but, as you say, we cannot let these bastards take our way of life.

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3 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

You are entitled to ask any question about anything I have written.  However this is an ingenious question because, as you well know, it is deflecting from my main point.

Islam is the root cause of this attack.

How much more Islamic inspired terrorism will it take for you, Nick, to say 'Enough'?

We're all going to have to answer that question at some stage - people are asking it now, what's it going to be like in 20 years?

 

It would.

Do you love your fellow English men and women (if you are English or the Welsh if you are Welsh, etc) enough to value more highly their liberty, safety and right to peace over the feelings of the followers of Islam? Because that's what it's coming to.

I do.

Because they are my people and well ... Islam is a barbaric backward and totalitarian alien ideology from Arabia* - where it belongs, in the sand, with Arabs doing their thing.

'Will to live', my friend.

 

* Iran was Zoroastrian before Islam culturally diversified them out of existence.

 

 

 

 

I love my fellow English men and women (and indeed fellow British men and women) enough to value their liberty, safety and peace. That includes their librety to follow a religion of their choosing, including Islam.

More practically, if there is one lesson to be learned from history, it is that banning anything never ever works. It simply drives people underground. And frankly the vast majority of Islamic terrorists are people who identify as Muslim culturally but feel disconnected from both their religion and mainstream Muslim society. Generally speaking people who might see themselves as from Muslim backgrounds (whatever that means) but not go to mosques or follow the Koran and, up until the point of radicalisation, might be engaging with drugs, alcohol, strip clubs, casual sex or other behaviour that is not perceived as Islamic - hence the desperate violent desire to prove their faith in some dramatic way because they struggle to do the small acts on a day to day basis.

Banning Islam has three fundamental flaws:

1. As previously stated, it is erroneous to think you can successfully ban a religion. Any religion. It just will not work.

2. It will drive people away from traditional Muslim places of worship, where terrorists tend not to go, and to the places where radical jihadists might actually be.

3.Given the mainstream Muslim community is not in itself the problem, banning the mainstream Muslim community will not be an effective solution.

If you actually read interviews with people who have joined IS, they are often gang members who have chosen to join what they see as the biggest gang in the world. Solving the problem of radical Islamic terror is far more likely to be achieved by tackling the reasons why people join gangs than by ill-conceived and doomed attempts at stopping people following a religion.

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2 hours ago, CrazyInWeston said:

eddie hitler said it was committed by a muslim just because they WERE a muslim, thats his words and not mine. he's the racist.

It's not racist it's fact. A Muslim carried it out because he believed in the preaching of his religion. Dress it up as racism as much as you want if a fact is racism tough ******* shit. It's still a fact.

If calling out a terrorist based on his religion is racist God help us all.

 

Keep em coming Mo these heart bleeding leftie westerners will welcome us in because there is more fear in being called a racist than being blown apart.

 

The more people about racist when people present facts the more this will hapoen. Much like the fear in Rochdale.. But will any one learn when shouting racist is much easier than dealing with facts and who is attacking the West.

 

Personally I do not care if only one tenth of a percent of Muslims do this kind of thing. They still do it based on their faith...  and that should not be accepted or brushed under the carpet with shouts of racist 

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9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I love my fellow English men and women (and indeed fellow British men and women) enough to value their liberty, safety and peace. That includes their librety to follow a religion of their choosing, including Islam.

More practically, if there is one lesson to be learned from history, it is that banning anything never ever works. It simply drives people underground. And frankly the vast majority of Islamic terrorists are people who identify as Muslim culturally but feel disconnected from both their religion and mainstream Muslim society. Generally speaking people who might see themselves as from Muslim backgrounds (whatever that means) but not go to mosques or follow the Koran and, up until the point of radicalisation, might be engaging with drugs, alcohol, strip clubs, casual sex or other behaviour that is not perceived as Islamic - hence the desperate violent desire to prove their faith in some dramatic way because they struggle to do the small acts on a day to day basis.

Banning Islam has three fundamental flaws:

1. As previously stated, it is erroneous to think you can successfully ban a religion. Any religion. It just will not work.

2. It will drive people away from traditional Muslim places of worship, where terrorists tend not to go, and to the places where radical jihadists might actually be.

3.Given the mainstream Muslim community is not in itself the problem, banning the mainstream Muslim community will not be an effective solution.

If you actually read interviews with people who have joined IS, they are often gang members who have chosen to join what they see as the biggest gang in the world. Solving the problem of radical Islamic terror is far more likely to be achieved by tackling the reasons why people join gangs than by ill-conceived and doomed attempts at stopping people following a religion.

Bang on.

a ban will drive it underground. Maybe those who think it would have an effect could propose a solution. Perhaps a final solution?

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19 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

You are entitled to ask any question about anything I have written.  However this is an ingenious question because, as you well know, it is deflecting from my main point.

Islam is the root cause of this attack.

How much more Islamic inspired terrorism will it take for you, Nick, to say 'Enough'?

We're all going to have to answer that question at some stage - people are asking it now, what's it going to be like in 20 years?

Ok, but you have said "enough" for a while now and I have seen this said a number of times, but not so much about what to be done. Many followers of Islam have lived in this country for a number of generations now and consider themselves as British as you or I. I saw someone suggest locking up any criminals entire family - this is literally what North Korea does (for 3 generations I believe, of hard labour for their entire lives even if they weren't born when the crime was committed)... is that really the line we're going down?!

I would be asking much wider questions about how we try and integrate cultures, why it is predominantly young men who later on convert to Islam (or this radical interpretation of it) who commit these crimes, about their socioeconomic factors etc. rather than thinking about Islam itself. Maybe if these people felt they had a better lot in life they'd be less susceptible to the brainwashing they undergo. Personally I believe if Islam didn't exist these nutters who orchestrate these things would just find something else to brainwash mentally ill or disillusioned young men through to do their evil deeds. As LB mentioned above, most of these people admit to barely knowing anything about the Koran itself as far as I am aware. Is Islam itself the root cause of this attack?

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9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I love my fellow English men and women (and indeed fellow British men and women) enough to value their liberty, safety and peace. That includes their librety to follow a religion of their choosing, including Islam.

More practically, if there is one lesson to be learned from history, it is that banning anything never ever works. It simply drives people underground. And frankly the vast majority of Islamic terrorists are people who identify as Muslim culturally but feel disconnected from both their religion and mainstream Muslim society. Generally speaking people who might see themselves as from Muslim backgrounds (whatever that means) but not go to mosques or follow the Koran and, up until the point of radicalisation, might be engaging with drugs, alcohol, strip clubs, casual sex or other behaviour that is not perceived as Islamic - hence the desperate violent desire to prove their faith in some dramatic way because they struggle to do the small acts on a day to day basis.

Banning Islam has three fundamental flaws:

1. As previously stated, it is erroneous to think you can successfully ban a religion. Any religion. It just will not work.

2. It will drive people away from traditional Muslim places of worship, where terrorists tend not to go, and to the places where radical jihadists might actually be.

3.Given the mainstream Muslim community is not in itself the problem, banning the mainstream Muslim community will not be an effective solution.

If you actually read interviews with people who have joined IS, they are often gang members who have chosen to join what they see as the biggest gang in the world. Solving the problem of radical Islamic terror is far more likely to be achieved by tackling the reasons why people join gangs than by ill-conceived and doomed attempts at stopping people following a religion.

As always LB, you make some good, balanced arguments, and in a very eloquent manner.

One point I would like to make is that it doesn't help the situation by continuing to import people from Islamic nations.

Yes, there are many innocent refugees looking to come here, but reality is, the larger the Islamic community, the easier it is for the bad guys to hide amongst it.

Interesting to see Farron in Manchester this evening. Only last week this clown was claiming that it was an "outrage" that we had not taken more Syrians in, and demanded we take another 50,000 NOW. How in God's name is that going to help us isolate and imprison the bad guys ?

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Just now, The Gasbuster said:

 

One point I would like to make is that it doesn't help the situation by continuing to import people from Islamic nations.

 

Really? The attacks in this country have been all done by born n bred British nationals. The guy who killed Lee rigby had a broad cockney accent.

 

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