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Manchester Arena Explosion (Merged)


JasonM88

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48 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

I don't disagree with the first half of your post, but I'm not really sure what your point is? It obviously makes sense that they should choose their country more particularly, but they don't, that's their intention, to inflict harm on the Western world.

I'm not really sure why I put that it's not really relevant, poor choice of words, but yes it does seem to have created a bit of a culture where you can't freely insult the bad parts of Islam. But in the grand scheme of things that's a very small issue.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/why-isis-hate-you-reasons-8533563

Perhaps it's a good idea to hear it from the horse's mouth.

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50 minutes ago, Northamptonshire Red said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/why-isis-hate-you-reasons-8533563

Perhaps it's a good idea to hear it from the horse's mouth.

The problem with things like this is it is basically propaganda. It tells you why IS want us to think they hate us and what they tell potential converts but I am not sure it ever really gives an accurate picture.

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On 25/05/2017 at 17:59, nebristolred said:

This thread makes me disappointed to be a City fan. It just goes to prove how many complete idiots we have around.

Is Islam in its literal form a violent religion? Yes (as are many religions, but I'll concede that Islam is particularly violent). Does that mean that every Muslim in the country should be tarred with the same brush as those who commit these horrendous attacks? Of course ****ing not. I presume Big Brother and the like on here are white males. Are you responsible for the actions of the KKK?

All of this bullsh*t about the death penalty and banning Muslims from taking certain jobs and deporting people without trial is absolutely ludicrous, it will solve literally nothing and just further deepen tensions.

What do we actually need to do?

- By all accounts we need better powers to deport or arrest (if they are British) these people once identified, it's ridiculous that we can't.
- We need to fund the Police properly (thanks Theresa May). If it wasn't for the cuts we might actually be able to track most of the 3,000 people on the watch list. I'm sorry, but if you're a civilised country you can't get rid of people purely for being on a watch list, you need to get the evidence. Fund the Police, you get the evidence.
- Powers to monitor religious buildings of any faith where grounds to do so will help Police with the above and possibly identify threats earlier.
- Proper vetting of those who have travelled to or from known countries of conflict (with regard to this situation), including refugees.
- And finally and probably most importantly, do not get involved in illegal ******* wars which the majority of the population are against, based on lies and alterior motives designed purely to line your own pockets (looking at you Mr Blair). We have faced austerity for 7 years and yet we can always find more and more millions to fight wars which prolong everything and solve nothing.

The one thing I do agree with BB about to some extent is the overly-PC culture which is bordering insanity, but in reality that's irrelevant to this.

Where's that 'hallefrigginluyah' button?

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11 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Why are sky news still reporting from that site live and why are people still behind them taking photos of the flowers.Where have they been all week,bit distasteful for my liking and that takes some doing as some on here will know,as for corbyn well the less said the better 

I have been thinking that the round-the-clock news/coverage is rather distasteful and definitely unhelpful.   I've been getting on with my life as 'normal' and that is exactly what the terrorists don't want me to do.  

A couple of snippets I have heard that I feel need adding are that researchers have found that the majority who leave here to go to the ISIS strongholds return back here abhorred by what they've seen an become anti-terrorists.  I could do with finding a source on that.

Not that I bother with social media much anyway but my Facebook had a lot of "kick all muslims out", "enough of you virtue signalling apologists", "Liberal, Leftism isn't working" (whatever that is?) etc - tell us the solution, then. 

It seems to me to be a hugely more complex issue than anyone's suggesting.  

I'll suggest, like the single route course of mental health issues in the 21st century, inequality and the narcissism/trauma dynamic that is such a prevalent sinuw in human relations is where the problem fundamentally lies.  

It'll all come out in years to come, there's wide-spread denial at the moment.

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4540822/Rebels-went-Libya-MI5-blessing-amid-Abedi-probe.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK

Essentially, "feel free to go and help our's and the US Government's war in Libya". When we will ****ing learn that training, arming and siding with radical Jihadists to further our own agendas always leads to misery? 

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2 hours ago, Northamptonshire Red said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4540822/Rebels-went-Libya-MI5-blessing-amid-Abedi-probe.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK

Essentially, "feel free to go and help our's and the US Government's war in Libya". When we will ****ing learn that training, arming and siding with radical Jihadists to further our own agendas always leads to misery? 

Exactly. The worse thing that could have happened to Libya was colonel gaddafi being removed, completely disabled that country and has let the Jihadists run riot just like they are in Iraq and trying to in Syria. There is a reason why dictatorships have worked in the middle east and the sooner we get it thorugh our thick heads that creating democracy in these countries will never work the better.. Gaddafi would be turning in his grave if he could see the mess Libya was in right now.

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2 hours ago, bris red said:

Gaddafi would be turning in his grave if he could see the mess Libya was in right now.

Best quote ever!

It's a right old mess for sure and has popped up to bight us on the arse.

Personally, I don't value a young, British life any higher than I do any one of the millions of lives lost to Gaddafi, Hussein etc.  

I'll also be f***** if I know what the right course of action should have been.  However, to sit and watch the mass-murder of millions of innocents churned my heart.  

The Manchester bombing being on our doorstep and being something we can directly identify with awakes our spirit.

 

There are evil forces at work. If hard line atheists need an argument I suggest they look at the state of this free-willed human species and continue to argue it's just evolved 'intelligence' and chemicals in our brains.  The evidence of the last week doesn't support their case.  

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, WTFiGO!?! said:

 that researchers have found that the majority who leave here to go to the ISIS strongholds return back here abhorred by what they've seen an become anti-terrorists.  I could do with finding a source on that.

I don't believe that at all.

Some have gone and found out that it wasn't the easy life that they were expecting from the propaganda videos and came back; but that's hardly the same.

It's just like somebody joining the Royal Marines and finding that they can't hack the training. They leave but they don't do it on a point of principle.

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1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I don't believe that at all.

Some have gone and found out that it wasn't the easy life that they were expecting from the propaganda videos and came back; but that's hardly the same.

It's just like somebody joining the Royal Marines and finding that they can't hack the training. They leave but they don't do it on a point of principle.

I don't think anyone believes a word these so called "researchers " say tbh 

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2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I don't believe that at all.

Some have gone and found out that it wasn't the easy life that they were expecting from the propaganda videos and came back; but that's hardly the same.

It's just like somebody joining the Royal Marines and finding that they can't hack the training. They leave but they don't do it on a point of principle.

Believing or not believing these so called "researchers" and our interpretation of what they conclude is entirely up to us, obviously.

I certainly don't believe however, that they are making these sort of statements for political gain.  Call me naive and I'll call you cynical.

But it's a branch not root point of argument.  Addressing symptoms, not finding cure.

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18 hours ago, WTFiGO!?! said:

 

I have been thinking that the round-the-clock news/coverage is rather distasteful and definitely unhelpful.   I've been getting on with my life as 'normal' and that is exactly what the terrorists don't want me to do.  

A couple of snippets I have heard that I feel need adding are that researchers have found that the majority who leave here to go to the ISIS strongholds return back here abhorred by what they've seen an become anti-terrorists.  I could do with finding a source on that.

Not that I bother with social media much anyway but my Facebook had a lot of "kick all muslims out", "enough of you virtue signalling apologists", "Liberal, Leftism isn't working" (whatever that is?) etc - tell us the solution, then. 

It seems to me to be a hugely more complex issue than anyone's suggesting.  

I'll suggest, like the single route course of mental health issues in the 21st century, inequality and the narcissism/trauma dynamic that is such a prevalent sinuw in human relations is where the problem fundamentally lies.  

It'll all come out in years to come, there's wide-spread denial at the moment.

The biggest mental issue is weirdos (in the 21stC, FFS), who adhere to superstitious myths and fairytales. Get a grip!

Oh, and a lot of people are bastards.

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30 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

The biggest mental issue is weirdos (in the 21stC, FFS), who adhere to superstitious myths and fairytales. Get a grip!

Oh, and a lot of people are bastards.

Given we're largely a secular country now and given the number of "weirdos" we apparently have, there appears to be a major flaw in your argument.

Your latter point is true but I will address it by suggesting that people aren't born "bastards" (in the way you meant the word).  They generally behave in a way that they are accustomed to and become a product of the system they are subjected too.

Besides, we all seem to agree that we have a human right to express ourselves freely (esp. here on otib).  You've lowered yourself 'Mike', with "Get a grip!" and "FFS".  Has somebody said something you don't like? ;) Bastard!  

I'm enjoying the sun and the great Cup Final! Happy days.

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, WTFiGO!?! said:

Given we're largely a secular country now and given the number of "weirdos" we apparently have, there appears to be a major flaw in your argument.

Your latter point is true but I will address it by suggesting that people aren't born "bastards" (in the way you meant the word).  They generally behave in a way that they are accustomed to and become a product of the system they are subjected too.

Besides, we all seem to agree that we have a human right to express ourselves freely (esp. here on otib).  You've lowered yourself 'Mike', with "Get a grip!" and "FFS".  Has somebody said something you don't like? ;) Bastard!  

I'm enjoying the sun and the great Cup Final! Happy days.

 

 

 

 

Proscribe religion! Evil shit that it is.

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38 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Ah...so you are trying to label atheism as a "pseudo religion"? 

I don't have truck with mysticism and superstition. The barnacles on the keel of humanity.

No.  I respect the faith of true atheists.  

What I was insinuating was that we live in a secular society and what appears to be happening is that people are filling their 'faith gene' if you like, with all sorts of other manifestations - money, football, Sex, social media etc - take your pick.  

These fallible faith objects are not exactly cohesive to fundamental well-being.  Hence pretty much all the issues we are facing.  They certainly do not promote love, peace and harmony - the thing we are all craving.

I think we best debate and argue the shit over this on a new thread. Not high jack this one.  

My only other suggestion is that we keep it civil and agree to disagree if needs be.  

 

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4 hours ago, WTFiGO!?! said:

What's the solution then mate, other than more moral outrage?

Proscribe sunni islam (per my previous post many pages ago it is not shias and similar doing this) on the grounds that it is a death cult.

This won't however happen until the Saudi oil money runs out.  Which may be sooner than anyone thinks. The Saudi government has just issued its first bond (i.e. borrowing against future revenue) and is trying to sell 10% of Aramco, the state oil company.

These would have both been unthinkable even ten years ago.  Shale oil and Russia / Iran pumping oil like crazy mean that the oil price is depressed and this is causing problems for the free spending Saud regime as it is now in the red and with no other economy except selling oil to shore it up is slowly going bankrupt.

 

battery-sergeant-major-shut-up-williams-

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8 hours ago, WTFiGO!?! said:

What's the solution then mate, other than more moral outrage?

Quite simple I would say, this is obviously such a serious matter, so as soon as anybody comes on to the radar of the authorities for whatever reason, carry out extremely far reaching enquiries into their complete political, social, financial and travel background and the fact that he had no income apart from his student loans and was not attending lessons and his trips abroad would have come to light.

How about that and not one piece of moral outrage, just good honest investigation in an attempt to keep people safe deal with people like him.

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How nice that Ariana Grande is coming back to do a benefit gig at Old Trafford cricket ground. She'll be joined by Katy Perry & Miley Cyrus. All 3 support the current "no borders" trend...... if they held the benefit gig in Mecca i'd take them seriously.

 

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8 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

We have a right to be angry about this.

Indeed we do, but I (and indeed the majority of people), feel that your anger is misdirected.

You come across on here as intelligent and eloquent, which makes the views you espouse even more unpleasant in my eyes. At least BF is just an old bluffer who knows no better.

But then, you won't listen to me as I'm not a real man because I didn't support your idea of going into the Muslim areas with a machine gun blazing.

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1 hour ago, Big Brother said:

Regarding 'going in with machine guns blazing' (amazed you'd write such a thing) I'm not a muslim so statistically (and rationally) speaking it's pretty unlikely that I'd do such a thing such as ...

Not the exact quote of course, but you have certainly advocated the security forces going into Muslim areas with weapons and showing zero mercy, or something very similar. Was a couple of years back now, so not going to go searching for it.

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3 minutes ago, Big Brother said:

Source and context or it didn't happen.

" Hollande is talking about dropping more bombs on ISIS positions. What a moron. He should be ordering the Security services into the housing estates and mosques and 'community centers' with weapons and zero tolerance. "

15/7/2016 in the Nice Attacks thread.

I challenged you on this at some point and you told me I wasn't a real man for disagreeing.

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Of course a policeman shooting first in order to disarm/kill a terrorist is a sensible move, but your quote sounds like you were advocating armed police going into Muslim areas and shooting anybody they found there - there's a huge difference.

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