Lichfield eastend Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 Take Tammy out of this equation and we don't fair too well with youngsters , do we need to improve , discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodjias Wrist Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 Looks like Forest are seriously building! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 This highlights very clearly that our own Academy boys were denied minutes by the disastrous losing run. If we'd continued gathering points at the same rate as the first 11 matches, we could have been pretty certain of safety early enough to have blooded half a dozen. Well done LJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Lichfield eastend said: Take Tammy out of this equation and we don't fair too well with youngsters , do we need to improve , discuss Do we need to improve or do the players need to improve? Sounds as if we have talent coming through, and I would imagine if we were in an LOWER DIVISION LIKE ROVERS we would have seen more minutes from more players. But, given the standard of football, stands to reason that fewer players will make the grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 14 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: Do we need to improve or do the players need to improve? Sounds as if we have talent coming through, and I would imagine if we were in an LOWER DIVISION LIKE ROVERS we would have seen more minutes from more players. But, given the standard of football, stands to reason that fewer players will make the grade. Well that's alright then, they will all get a chance the season after next when we are back in division 1, having failed yet again to recruit FOR the division we are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 11 minutes ago, Ivorguy said: Well that's alright then, they will all get a chance the season after next when we are back in division 1, having failed yet again to recruit FOR the division we are in. If the kids aren't good enough or bringing them in to a side that are losing won't help their development then leave them out. No point in letting them suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 Well seeing as this season was one of the first we really invested in youth recruitment, expecting immediate results is very foolish. A lot of those young players brought in were U20 and as stated above, do you really want to chuck them into a relegation dogfight? A year later, and they will still be young players, but with an extra years development, another year under our coaching (I seem to recall we changed a couple of years back so the same system would be used for the U23s etc as the first team) and knowing our way of playing. Then there is also the fact the League deterred Johnson from playing a fully U21 team in our final game (cannot find the link where he said he wanted to "field a fully U21 side" but there was a Bristol Post article on it) Plus we have this here, which suggests more youth players will be used next season, and, once again, it is pointed out that chucking a bunch of youth players into a relegation fight is not a particularly clever idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted May 26, 2017 Report Share Posted May 26, 2017 So looking at that, we've given more playing time to players under the age of twenty, than any other club in the division, hopefully the top end premier league clubs have taken notice of this, when they're looking for clubs to send young talented players to. Looking at our place in that table, and the way our team preformed for most of last season, if they're good enough they're old enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 If you look at the three teams who used the most youngsters they finished 21st, 14th and 16th. If you look at the team's that used the fewest you would be looking at 4th, 12th and 2nd in the table. I'd say from that you are better off with experience than youth on the whole, but we all knew that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwickshire Red Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 24 minutes ago, RedM said: If you look at the three teams who used the most youngsters they finished 21st, 14th and 16th. If you look at the team's that used the fewest you would be looking at 4th, 12th and 2nd in the table. I'd say from that you are better off with experience than youth on the whole, but we all knew that anyway. Yes and when SL/club mention Brighton as a club for us to model on, it clearly isn't a realistic comparison - they have an experienced manager for this division and tend to use experienced players whereas SL is now adopting a different model. It does have to be said though that a good number of our minutes was for Tammy who was a revelation. Take him out and our place in the table would change dramatically. No getting away from the conclusion though that using fewer youngsters tends towards higher table finishes and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, Warwickshire Red said: Yes and when SL/club mention Brighton as a club for us to model on, it clearly isn't a realistic comparison - they have an experienced manager for this division and tend to use experienced players whereas SL is now adopting a different model. It does have to be said though that a good number of our minutes was for Tammy who was a revelation. Take him out and our place in the table would change dramatically. No getting away from the conclusion though that using fewer youngsters tends towards higher table finishes and vice versa. Agreed. We seem to be trying to bake the same cake with different ingredients. Cheaper ingredients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 23 minutes ago, Warwickshire Red said: Yes and when SL/club mention Brighton as a club for us to model on, it clearly isn't a realistic comparison - they have an experienced manager for this division and tend to use experienced players whereas SL is now adopting a different model. No getting away from the conclusion though that using fewer youngsters tends towards higher table finishes and vice versa. Indeed WR. As RedM points out pretty much every football fan and managers know that and it raises the simple statement that of if your good enough, you're old enough applies perfectly. My question is - how much talent is there within the youth set up at AG? We've seen Vyner and Bowler make brief first team appearances and Vyner will certainly feature next season having been on loan playing men's football and learning the game. Same with Taylor Moore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 Who the **** is Bowler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 Just now, GrahamC said: Who the **** is Bowler? Hats off for asking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, GrahamC said: Who the **** is Bowler? George.........obvious I got his surname wrong. Dowling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 We. Need. To. Fix. The. Academy. Kids are our only future. Blood them. And spend money HERE, not on loanees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j8mbob Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, SecretSam said: We. Need. To. Fix. The. Academy. Kids are our only future. Blood them. And spend money HERE, not on loanees. The Academy is not broken!! It just takes time. There are players in some age groups that are excellent. It just they are maybe 3/4/5+ years away from being around the first team. In fact I would say that some of the things that are happening in the academy are better than they have ever been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 15 hours ago, cidered abroad said: This highlights very clearly that our own Academy boys were denied minutes by the disastrous losing run. If we'd continued gathering points at the same rate as the first 11 matches, we could have been pretty certain of safety early enough to have blooded half a dozen. Well done LJ. Aside from post Ashton Gate Eight, I don't think this has ever happened. I'll be amazed but delighted if two or three U23 players come through next season - Kelly, McCluskey, Vyner?? - and make an impact. I suppose really we need to include Taylor Moore in there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 9 hours ago, Robbored said: George.........obvious I got his surname wrong. Dowling? Yes Dowling. Just wanted an excuse to share this image I saw, well I thought it was nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted May 27, 2017 Report Share Posted May 27, 2017 8 hours ago, j8mbob said: The Academy is not broken!! It just takes time. There are players in some age groups that are excellent. It just they are maybe 3/4/5+ years away from being around the first team. In fact I would say that some of the things that are happening in the academy are better than they have ever been. OK apols if that's the case. But it frustrates me to see other teams produce great home-grown players, and not so much us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 23 hours ago, j8mbob said: The Academy is not broken!! It just takes time. There are players in some age groups that are excellent. It just they are maybe 3/4/5+ years away from being around the first team. In fact I would say that some of the things that are happening in the academy are better than they have ever been. and repeat...... 1995, 2000, 2005, 2010, 2015 . I believe however - if, merely on the basis of the law of averages - we will produce a forward, centre-back, perhaps even a goalkeeper worthy having invested £10's millions in this supremely productive and highly efficient coaching machine. Meanwhile, Bath City, W-S-M, Hallen and the likes circle for the pickings of the next set of graduates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamalagerdrinker Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 Strange considering it's the philosophy of the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 On 2017-5-27 at 09:47, j8mbob said: The Academy is not broken!! It just takes time. There are players in some age groups that are excellent. It just they are maybe 3/4/5+ years away from being around the first team. In fact I would say that some of the things that are happening in the academy are better than they have ever been. Good to hear. Personally, I think this is THE only option for building sustainably. Do work with any of the team or watch many of the games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judda Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 It's obviously a numbers game. You have 20 or so players who are good for their age and train them up and hope that one or two have the quality and attitude to make it into the 1st team.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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