shepton red Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Leveller said: It hit his hand after ricocheting off his knee, so clearly not deliberate. Ergo, not handball. Whatever the "experts" say. The goal stood, which is the bottom line. However, his arms were not in a natural position and the unintended use of his hands gave an advantage to Arsenal, should have been a free kick. Not the result I wanted, but the best team won on the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 hour ago, shepton red said: The goal stood, which is the bottom line. However, his arms were not in a natural position and the unintended use of his hands gave an advantage to Arsenal, should have been a free kick. Not the result I wanted, but the best team won on the day. The rules simply say "deliberately" and it's up to the ref to decide if that was the case. All the stuff about unnatural position of the arm is just guidance. This ref decided (I think correctly) that the player did not look to control the ball with his hand. In those circumstances he clearly made the correct decision. And I'm totally neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southstandoriginal Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 I watched it on BT in a pub. The camera angle was terrible, lower than from the old Williams I would say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erithacus Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Super said: Please can the FA get this back to a 3pm kick off! Agree with you, Super. Sadly, the FA get far too much more cash for the worldwide TV rights in the early evening than keeping to our tradition. Still, have to join the crowd in saying what a tremendously watchable game it was - so many before were rather drab or one-sided. Yes, it may well have had a majority of non-British players and managers who won't necessarily have had the upbringing that we had, but played at their best for the most part. It will be remembered for longer than the previous Finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 Going off on a tangent... Could they go back to the old offside rule that any attacking player without the ball between the back line and the goalkeeper is offside. Whether they are receiving the ball or not the goalkeeper is going to be distracted. Surely many of the advantages of the new rules have been offset anyway by the linesman's misreading of the situation? Going back to the 70's I can remember Arsenal's John Rafford actually stepping over the goal line as the ball was kicked forward so being off the field he wouldn't be offside! (So there were cheating b'stards then as well!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 58 minutes ago, Midred said: Going off on a tangent... Could they go back to the old offside rule that any attacking player without the ball between the back line and the goalkeeper is offside. Whether they are receiving the ball or not the goalkeeper is going to be distracted. Surely many of the advantages of the new rules have been offset anyway by the linesman's misreading of the situation? Going back to the 70's I can remember Arsenal's John Rafford actually stepping over the goal line as the ball was kicked forward so being off the field he wouldn't be offside! (So there were cheating b'stards then as well!) Re the new offside rule, Cloughie used to say if a player is not interfering with play what is he doing on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erithacus Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Midred said: Going back to the 70's I can remember Arsenal's John Rafford actually stepping over the goal line as the ball was kicked forward so being off the field he wouldn't be offside! Saw a defender try that sort of trick after being felled by a fierce shot in a Toolstation game this year - crawling over the line so as to be 'off the field'. The officials spotted the move and allowed a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepton red Posted May 28, 2017 Report Share Posted May 28, 2017 12 hours ago, Leveller said: The rules simply say "deliberately" and it's up to the ref to decide if that was the case. All the stuff about unnatural position of the arm is just guidance. This ref decided (I think correctly) that the player did not look to control the ball with his hand. In those circumstances he clearly made the correct decision. And I'm totally neutral. I disagree, but cest la vie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted May 29, 2017 Report Share Posted May 29, 2017 21 hours ago, shepton red said: I disagree, but cest la vie Out of interest, which bit do you disagree with? If you just feel Sanchez clearly did intend to handle the ball, then that's fine. What bugs me is if people feel it was accidental, but still say it's handball, because there was an advantage. That's not the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepton red Posted May 29, 2017 Report Share Posted May 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Leveller said: Out of interest, which bit do you disagree with? If you just feel Sanchez clearly did intend to handle the ball, then that's fine. What bugs me is if people feel it was accidental, but still say it's handball, because there was an advantage. That's not the rule. Arsenal gained an advantage through the use of the hands,therefore, despite being 'accidental ' still scored a goal. So I believe he intended to handle the ball, therefore cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 On 5/28/2017 at 15:41, downendcity said: Re the new offside rule, Cloughie used to say if a player is not interfering with play what is he doing on the pitch. So John Radford was Cloughies type of player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 On 5/28/2017 at 14:40, Midred said: Going back to the 70's I can remember Arsenal's John Rafford actually stepping over the goal line as the ball was kicked forward so being off the field he wouldn't be offside! (So there were cheating b'stards then as well!) In the 80s playing local football I skinned the fullback, got to the byline and cut the ball back from which we scored. In cutting the ball back I lost balance and fell forward and off the pitch. The ref gave me offside, saying that I had deliberately left the pitch to avoid being offside. When my teammates argued that I could not be offside iff I cut the ball back, the ref then said that my leaving the pitch without permission was ungentlemanly conduct, which not not only justified his decision but justified him booking me! Unbelievable Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 On 29/05/2017 at 23:40, shepton red said: Arsenal gained an advantage through the use of the hands,therefore, despite being 'accidental ' still scored a goal. So I believe he intended to handle the ball, therefore cheated. So it was accidental and intended? That doesn't make sense. His hands were in an unnatural position, but the ball was going to hit his chest and go in the same direction anyway, so no advantage gained there. The only advantage Arsenal got with regards to the handball was the Chelsea players stopped, expecting the whistle. The Ramsey offside scenario is altogether murkier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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