... Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 A friend of mine gets a lot of grief at work from his manager, who never backs him up or offers any support - he is always seen as the wrong doer in any given situation. He's got a good job, and so puts up with it year after year. He bends my ear quite a bit to the extent I actually started disliking his boss. By all accounts he is an arse and a bully. Shit happens. Recently, matey got some serious verbal abuse at work, from some yob. He was upset by this, as it was in front of some customers and other staff. The yob would not apologise or back down. One of the customers even stepped in and defended him (he needs no defending as he is built like a brick shit-house and could have flattened this yob with one hand). He did not retaliate, as he knows his boss would side against him. He then made a complaint, as the company has a very strict 'no abuse' policy. His manager ignored the complaint, saying he had to put it in writing. This he did reluctantly. Nothing then happened, which pissed him off as he was asked to 'put it in writing' by the boss - who ignored it. Abuse happens, but when it is so public, he felt something should be done, or the yob(s) will just carry on doing it until they get a reaction, and then guess who gets sacked! So he told his boss he was going to speak to the Police for advice, as his union said the abuse was an offence. His boss ignored this. So he spoke to the Police, who asked him to copy them into emails / letters, and set his boss a deadline. When the deadline was up, they would get involved. The boss ignored the Police deadline. He then was asked to make a formal Police statement. He did this and was promised that they would investigate the matter. To cut a long story short, his boss then suspended him, and he's been suspended for three months, causing him to lose a couple of thousand pounds of shift pay. His boss has even threatened him about withdrawing his Police statement. His union seem to be just watching, and he has even told the Police about the intimidation. Neither are doing anything, as they seem to think the boss has not 'crossed any line' yet. How is suspending someone for complaining about abuse, OK? So much for 'workers rights' in this country. It's a bad state of affairs when someone gets verbally abused, infront of half-a-dozen witnesses, and they are the ones who get punished. Thoughts? tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 What has he been suspended for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Taxi for Johnson said: A friend of mine gets a lot of grief at work from his manager, who never backs him up or offers any support - he is always seen as the wrong doer in any given situation. He's got a good job, and so puts up with it year after year. He bends my ear quite a bit to the extent I actually started disliking his boss. By all accounts he is an arse and a bully. Shit happens. Recently, matey got some serious verbal abuse at work, from some yob. He was upset by this, as it was in front of some customers and other staff. The yob would not apologise or back down. One of the customers even stepped in and defended him (he needs no defending as he is built like a brick shit-house and could have flattened this yob with one hand). He did not retaliate, as he knows his boss would side against him. He then made a complaint, as the company has a very strict 'no abuse' policy. His manager ignored the complaint, saying he had to put it in writing. This he did reluctantly. Nothing then happened, which pissed him off as he was asked to 'put it in writing' by the boss - who ignored it. Abuse happens, but when it is so public, he felt something should be done, or the yob(s) will just carry on doing it until they get a reaction, and then guess who gets sacked! So he told his boss he was going to speak to the Police for advice, as his union said the abuse was an offence. His boss ignored this. So he spoke to the Police, who asked him to copy them into emails / letters, and set his boss a deadline. When the deadline was up, they would get involved. The boss ignored the Police deadline. He then was asked to make a formal Police statement. He did this and was promised that they would investigate the matter. To cut a long story short, his boss then suspended him, and he's been suspended for three months, causing him to lose a couple of thousand pounds of shift pay. His boss has even threatened him about withdrawing his Police statement. His union seem to be just watching, and he has even told the Police about the intimidation. Neither are doing anything, as they seem to think the boss has not 'crossed any line' yet. How is suspending someone for complaining about abuse, OK? So much for 'workers rights' in this country. It's a bad state of affairs when someone gets verbally abused, infront of half-a-dozen witnesses, and they are the ones who get punished. Thoughts? tfj What was the nature of the abuse? (Am not just being nosey - it could make a significant difference...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 Was the 'yob' a fellow staff member or a customer, if customer how likely will he see them again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 Ring ACAS for free advice. They were fab when I had an issue related to my manager at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 52 minutes ago, TRL said: What has he been suspended for? This is the strange thing - he has not really been told why. Boss was unhappy he told the Police - even though he said he was going to before hand. He's got the impression he might be allowed back if he drops his Police complaint. I've told him to tell the Police this, as it's witness intimidation. 39 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: What was the nature of the abuse? (Am not just being nosey - it could make a significant difference...) General use of F word, B word. Nothing racial or religious which would be a hate crime. Like I said - his employer has a zero tolerance policy on abuse of staff, which is in writing!!! I'll speak to him again (he is a fine City fan), but I think he just wanted an apology, and for it to be noted so if the guy does it again he gets banned. Not too much to ask for a tyraid of abuse in public, is it? What bothers me is that should we live in a society where you can go and swear at someone, and the victim gets punished?? He's thousands of pounds out of pocket, as his work is based on shift pay, with only a small salary. 37 minutes ago, Dollymarie said: Ring ACAS for free advice. They were fab when I had an issue related to my manager at work. I think he did, and they said he has not suffered a detriment, as suspension is not a disciplinary action. How would they feel if it happened to them! Cheers tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 28 minutes ago, Taxi for Johnson said: This is the strange thing - he has not really been told why. Boss was unhappy he told the Police - even though he said he was going to before hand. He's got the impression he might be allowed back if he drops his Police complaint. I've told him to tell the Police this, as it's witness intimidation. General use of F word, B word. Nothing racial or religious which would be a hate crime. Like I said - his employer has a zero tolerance policy on abuse of staff, which is in writing!!! I'll speak to him again (he is a fine City fan), but I think he just wanted an apology, and for it to be noted so if the guy does it again he gets banned. Not too much to ask for a tyraid of abuse in public, is it? What bothers me is that should we live in a society where you can go and swear at someone, and the victim gets punished?? He's thousands of pounds out of pocket, as his work is based on shift pay, with only a small salary. I think he did, and they said he has not suffered a detriment, as suspension is not a disciplinary action. How would they feel if it happened to them! Cheers tfj you cannot be suspended for nothing, He should report his boss to HR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Taxi for Johnson said: A friend of mine gets a lot of grief at work from his manager, who never backs him up or offers any support - he is always seen as the wrong doer in any given situation. He's got a good job, and so puts up with it year after year. He bends my ear quite a bit to the extent I actually started disliking his boss. By all accounts he is an arse and a bully. Shit happens. Recently, matey got some serious verbal abuse at work, from some yob. He was upset by this, as it was in front of some customers and other staff. The yob would not apologise or back down. One of the customers even stepped in and defended him (he needs no defending as he is built like a brick shit-house and could have flattened this yob with one hand). He did not retaliate, as he knows his boss would side against him. He then made a complaint, as the company has a very strict 'no abuse' policy. His manager ignored the complaint, saying he had to put it in writing. This he did reluctantly. Nothing then happened, which pissed him off as he was asked to 'put it in writing' by the boss - who ignored it. Abuse happens, but when it is so public, he felt something should be done, or the yob(s) will just carry on doing it until they get a reaction, and then guess who gets sacked! So he told his boss he was going to speak to the Police for advice, as his union said the abuse was an offence. His boss ignored this. So he spoke to the Police, who asked him to copy them into emails / letters, and set his boss a deadline. When the deadline was up, they would get involved. The boss ignored the Police deadline. He then was asked to make a formal Police statement. He did this and was promised that they would investigate the matter. To cut a long story short, his boss then suspended him, and he's been suspended for three months, causing him to lose a couple of thousand pounds of shift pay. His boss has even threatened him about withdrawing his Police statement. His union seem to be just watching, and he has even told the Police about the intimidation. Neither are doing anything, as they seem to think the boss has not 'crossed any line' yet. How is suspending someone for complaining about abuse, OK? So much for 'workers rights' in this country. It's a bad state of affairs when someone gets verbally abused, infront of half-a-dozen witnesses, and they are the ones who get punished. Thoughts? tfj Ummm are these the same workers rights that will be lost/eroded by Brexit, OMG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 Like Dolls said I would speak to ACAS and possibly Citezens advice too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Peg Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 Which is his union? If he is dealing with a shop steward, take it higher to a branch secretary or even higher to a area rep. If it is Unite, I would go to Tony Benn House on Victoria St for example. It all hinges on the 'yob', whether customer or staff member. I would assume it's the latter seeing as a formal complaint has been made. Also a suspension on no pay is a disciplinary action. Does he have the "you can come back if you drop the statement" in writing? This would be handy against the management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted May 30, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 Was the abuse from a fellow colleague of a customer? Hate to say before I got my last promotion, being a Team Leader I often got called onto the "front line" and used to get some real dog's abuse - sadly it came part and parcel of my role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Taxi for Johnson said: This is the strange thing - he has not really been told why. Boss was unhappy he told the Police - even though he said he was going to before hand. He's got the impression he might be allowed back if he drops his Police complaint. I've told him to tell the Police this, as it's witness intimidation. General use of F word, B word. Nothing racial or religious which would be a hate crime. Like I said - his employer has a zero tolerance policy on abuse of staff, which is in writing!!! I'll speak to him again (he is a fine City fan), but I think he just wanted an apology, and for it to be noted so if the guy does it again he gets banned. Not too much to ask for a tyraid of abuse in public, is it? What bothers me is that should we live in a society where you can go and swear at someone, and the victim gets punished?? He's thousands of pounds out of pocket, as his work is based on shift pay, with only a small salary. I think he did, and they said he has not suffered a detriment, as suspension is not a disciplinary action. How would they feel if it happened to them! Cheers tfj Is he in a union? If so, get them on the case. Our management's collective clacker valve goes into spasm if the union reps get mardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 Not sure how this was ever a police matter but if a manager is ignoring formal complaints and company policy the next step is to (with fair warning) go over his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 6 hours ago, Dollymarie said: Ring ACAS for free advice. They were fab when I had an issue related to my manager at work. Are you borrowing Dollys otib sign in again Mr Tomlin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Nibor said: Not sure how this was ever a police matter but if a manager is ignoring formal complaints and company policy the next step is to (with fair warning) go over his head. ..surely such a thing is not called for ? ... but I suppose if it helps ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted May 30, 2017 Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 The boss sounds like a right shite, and ,I suspect, due to 'previous' unspoken grievance the innocent party and the boss have allowed this (what should be a) relatively easy to deal with situation grow from a molehill into a mountain. I'd personally be looking for alternate employment if I was your mate, for his own peace of mind more than anything... but not before seeking grounds for a claim of constructive dismissal, .. the company have a 'duty of care' for employees and that appears to be remiss in this case. After all the shit that's already hit the fan would your mate be 'comfortable' going back in the long term anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 I think he has done most of this, but I will pass on the info about ACAS. His union told him that the employer has not sanctioned him yet - as he is just suspended. Apparently you have to suffer a proper punishment before anything can be done. It is disgraceful what an employer can do to a worker before the worker of his union can do anything. Why should he have to lose his job because some yob swore at him? That's a system that protects the offender. Imagine giving Skeletor / Colin a load of foul abuse at a City home game, and the Police took THEM away, and left you alone. It's a nice thought, but not exactly fair. Workers rights in this country should make us all ashamed. All the bloke is trying to do is work, pay his taxes, and support his family. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted May 30, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted May 30, 2017 Apologies, but still trying to work out who swore at him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted May 31, 2017 Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 11 hours ago, phantom said: Apologies, but still trying to work out who swore at him? Me too, glad it's not just me who really read it a few times and couldn't work it out. If it was a fellow staff member what has happened to him, is he suspended too? Was he spoken to by the boss, is the boss siding with him unfairly? What normally happens in situations like this at the workplace, was there previous between these two people. It just seems to have escalated quickly with police involvement and people suspended? If it was a customer is the workplace have security staff or doors that have to be buzzed open? Was this yob asked to leave or banned from the premises? Is there always additional staff around if needed, i.e. People are never left alone? Not that it makes abuse right, but is the job involved one where there is a lot of stress from customers/clients which your mate has to deal with? People can get upset for seemingly little or no reason and if they are paying for goods or services which they can't get or are wrong they feel they have a right to forcefully complain. If you take the swear words out of the equation did the yob have cause to complain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted May 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2017 19 hours ago, phantom said: Apologies, but still trying to work out who swore at him? Sorry for the confusion. He has now said it was a junior member of staff. That person is not suspended, but he has been. No suggestion he did anything wrong, or 'deserved' the abuse - the company just take exception to him reporting it. The customers DID NOT do the swearing, infact one of them waded in and told the oik that was no way to speak to your supervisor. You can't make it up!! He should go back into work and swear at HIS boss and the company will have to suspend him too!! Britain in 2017. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 In all cases, keep a diary (dates and times) of who said what, when, where and why. Keep things separate: Police complaint and the boss issue. For the boss issue, HR (I'm not a fan of the HR function but they do have their uses) are key as they should have documented processes in place to deal with such shit as this. He at least should be looking at the bullying policy. Not a fan of uniions (because as this case tends to indicate, they are next to useless unless it's some pet cause that he is suffering from) but they should be doing more. He needs to get them to tell him in writing what they are going to do about it. He should probably take a visit to his GP for stress - get it documented. Calm head at all times, work the process and play the game. All easier said than done. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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