Scottish football (Merged)

[Sweeneys Penalties]

Quite enjoy Football North of the Border myself. I make an annual trip to watch Dunfermline (don't really care whether it's at East End Park or somewhere else). Would like to see 'em at Inverness Cally Thistle next season if possible. It offers a different perspective, and fans expectations is certainly lower...which in turn makes for some very good humour around the ground. Last seasons "pilgrimage" was at Starks Park....it cost less to gain entrance there than it does at Bath City. Like I said... a different perspective. I don't visit for the quality of the Football, I visit for the quality of the company

 

[Robbored]

Just now, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Calling it "shite" definitely seemed like a sneer.

Read thru this thread and you'll see I'm not alone in thinking that the standard of football in Scotland is shite.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

Just now, Robbored said:

Read thru this thread and you'll see I'm not alone in thinking that the standard of football in Scotland is shite.

Whether you deem it "shite" or not, doesn`t warrant the supercilious attitude. I find bowls to be a tedious, wretched waste of time, played by coffin dodgers, but I don`t tend to broadcast it.

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Thanks for that RZ.

It is the silly season after all so I though a silly thread would be appropriate.

What's the standard like in the Scilly Islands league?

[sticks 1969]

celtic 50 to 1 on to win the league says it all

[22A]

18 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Scottish football IS crap, no one cares...YET on BBC news they always give the SPL results BEFORE any Champo results. I find it ridiculous as ECL draws at least 10 x more fans than SPL...I repeat no one cares (at least this side of the border) !

Radio 5 and Sky give the EFL  and even National League results before the SPL results. That's right you hear Dover's result before Celtic's.

When Ross, Peterhead, Elgin and the two merged Inverness clubs moved from the Highland League to the Scottish League, it ruined lower league football in the North as they didn't have a pyramid system as we have in England.

In their middle two divisions, bottom placed clubs playing off to stay up has both good & bad points. What I cannot understand is in the Prem of ten clubs, each club could play the other nine H& A twice to give a 36 game season. But no, at a cut off date the SPL splits in two with the top five playing each other and the lower five playing each other again. As a result the team finishing 6th and sometimes 7th end with more points than the team in 5th! 

It was innovative this season to permit some Welsh,Ulster and Irish Republic teams to enter the Scottish Challenge Cup. It says a lot that TNS from Oswestry reached the semi finals. Which brings me to the Welsh League; the only question seems to be (as in the SPL), who will finish 2nd to TNS?

Turning to Ulster, as a neutral it's pleasing that Glentorran and Linfield no longer dominate that League, but for the last two years Cliftonville have been the top dogs.

[22A]

11 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

Quite enjoy Football North of the Border myself. I make an annual trip to watch Dunfermline (don't really care whether it's at East End Park or somewhere else). 

 

Appropriate for City followers.

[22A]

3 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

What's the standard like in the Scilly Islands league?

By the 1950s, only two clubs remained - the Rangers and the Rovers. In 1984 the two clubs changed their names to the Garrison Gunners and the Woolpack Wanderers, which are their current names.The League is attempting to get into the Guinness World Records for the smallest league in the world. 

The League competition involves the Wanderers and the Gunners playing each other every Sunday seventeen times. There also exist two Cups: The Wholesalers Cup (their FA Cup)and the Foredeck Cup, which is played over two legs (their League Cup). The season itself starts with the Charity Shield. All the matches are played on the Garrison football field, on the island of St. Mary's. The league is played during the winter, from mid-November until the end of March. Occasionally, a combined Scilly Isles team play a team Newlyn Non Athletico, a team at level 14 of the English football league system. A team from Truro visits annually to play against a combined team.

[downendcity]

22 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Calling it "shite" definitely seemed like a sneer.

A shneer?

[downendcity]

Just now, 22A said:

By the 1950s, only two clubs remained - the Rangers and the Rovers. In 1984 the two clubs changed their names to the Garrison Gunners and the Woolpack Wanderers, which are their current names.The League is attempting to get into the Guinness World Records for the smallest league in the world. 

The League competition involves the Wanderers and the Gunners playing each other every Sunday seventeen times. There also exist two Cups: The Wholesalers Cup (their FA Cup)and the Foredeck Cup, which is played over two legs (their League Cup). The season itself starts with the Charity Shield. All the matches are played on the Garrison football field, on the island of St. Mary's. The league is played during the winter, from mid-November until the end of March. Occasionally, a combined Scilly Isles team play a team Newlyn Non Athletico, a team at level 14 of the English football league system. A team from Truro visits annually to play against a combined team.

At the end of the season do they have apply off for the title?

 

[downendcity]

56 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I wasnt too shoddy in 1967. As a mod I had plenty of mohair suits and looked like a cool dude. Unfortunately it's now 2017 and I've gone downhill a bit 

The more remarkable thing about their win in 67 was that the entire team was born within 11 miles of their ground.

Can't imagine any team will match that in future.

[Iron Acton Red]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

One off games don't count. Nor do matches over two legs.

Its the standard of the Scottish leagues that's pretty shite.

 

25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Read thru this thread and you'll see I'm not alone in thinking that the standard of football in Scotland is shite.

Your not wrong there,if Celtic were in the Prem they would struggle to stay up thats for sure.

The championship is a higher standard to the Scottish Prem by far.

[winsleyred]

2 minutes ago, downendcity said:

The more remarkable thing about their win in 67 was that the entire team was born within 11 miles of their ground.

Can't imagine any team will match that in future.

It was 30 miles not 11 but something that won't happen again

[winsleyred]

2 minutes ago, FramptonRed said:

 

Your not wrong there,if Celtic were in the Prem they would struggle to stay up thats for sure.

The championship is a higher standard to the Scottish Prem by far.

With the same income from tv money i don't think that would be the case

[ballwinningcentrehalf]

Scottish football has struggled in recent times. Poor club ownership, poor league management and a serious lack of money going into the game... But actually, Scotland isn't alone in this and it's a problem many leagues outside of the 'Big 5' increasingly face.

It is so easy for English fans to sneer at the quality of the league system north of the border, but the ignorance of these fans that sit on the pedestal of English football; built on clubs bought by foreign owners, pricing fans out of the game, or racking up incredible debts in futile attempts at competing, is astonishing.

The future for Scotland, and other smaller leagues, will be all about grassroots and improving for future generations (until their better quality players are lured to the reserve teams of bigger leagues!). It has been extremely slow progress up to now, but I really hope it is something that is being focussed on and prioritised.

While the quality obviously falls well below much of that seen in England, in reality you have a lot of entertainment and a lot of young, promising players being exposed to first team football at a young age. I have often found myself enjoying these games much more than another dour contest in the 'utopia' of the EPL.

As for Celtic, of course they are miles ahead the rest, but it's one thing having this advantage, and another entirely to maximise it as they have done this season. It's slightly strange (but not unexpected), that the OP only mentions Celtic's defeat to Barcelona (you know, quite a few teams have taken a beating at the Nou Camp). In reality, just qualifying for the group stages is an achievement in this era and they did well to dispatch Hapoel Be'er Sheva (a result Robbored mocked well before they went on to knock out Southampton), two highly credible draws against Manchester City and a great draw out in Germany against a very capable Monchengladbach side.

I always sense a bit of bitterness on both sides of this coin. Many Celtic and Rangers fans look on enviously while English clubs that will never, ever, be as big as them spend 10x what they can afford to attract players thanks to the ridiculous money available in England. While on the opposite side, many fans that often are very vocal in disparaging Celtic/Rangers/Scottish football, despite so often claiming they don't care about it (hi Robbored!), actually come across as weirdly offended by any success stories north of the border.

[Midred]

35 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Whether you deem it "shite" or not, doesn`t warrant the supercilious attitude. I find bowls to be a tedious, wretched waste of time, played by coffin dodgers, but I don`t tend to broadcast it.

Oops!

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

34 minutes ago, downendcity said:

A shneer?

Steve McLaren?

[TV Tom]

4 hours ago, Robbored said:

With the Scotland v England game coming up I get the same feeling about the Scottish game every time we play them -that its pretty shite and of poor quality.

Yet again Celitic with the league and both the cups. Sure the treble is unusual but for one club to dominate has to be a negative effect in their game. There's no serious competition with Rangers still recovering and only Aberdeen can mount any kind of challenge.

Celtic go into the Champions League and struggle and recently got stuffed 8-0 by Barca. 

Personaly I think the Scottish league is laughable but then I've always thought that.

Remind me how Arsenal got on against Bayern?

[pongo88]

46 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

Quite enjoy Football North of the Border myself. I make an annual trip to watch Dunfermline (don't really care whether it's at East End Park or somewhere else). Would like to see 'em at Inverness Cally Thistle next season if possible. It offers a different perspective, and fans expectations is certainly lower...which in turn makes for some very good humour around the ground. Last seasons "pilgrimage" was at Starks Park....it cost less to gain entrance there than it does at Bath City. Like I said... a different perspective. I don't visit for the quality of the Football, I visit for the quality of the company

 

Many moons ago I used to travel to East Kilbride (what a bleak place) on a fairly regular basis. This is near to Glasgow and I would occasionally watch St Mirren.  I went there because I remembered City signed Tony Fitzpatrick from St Mirren in City's brief spell in Division One. Based on the hype of the time I expected a big club. What I found was a small club with a ground capacity of less than 10k. I enjoyed the match day experience but it was not top class football 

For those who never saw Tony F play, his pointing was better than Neil Kilkenney, and he made NK look like a long ball merchant 

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, harrys said:

Remind me how Arsenal got on against Bayern?

What's that got to do with Scottish football?        

[Kodjias Wrist]

Slightly off topic but why does Robbored get so much shit off of everyone? His posts aren't that different from many i see on here? 

Or is it just Banta?

[reddoh]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

What's that got to do with Scottish football?        

If football started in Scotland then err everything.

[sglosbcfc]

Slagging off Scottish football, OK as usual I'll bite -

1. Scotland is the best supported league in Europe. Despite having a tiny population they have Celtic and Rangers averaging 50,000 +, Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts averaging over 12,000 and Dundee and Dundee United averaging over 6,000. That is despite the fact that in the past 5 years all of the biggest teams in Scotland with the exception of Celtic and Aberdeen have spent time outside the top flight.

2. Teams in the fourth tier attract gates of 1,000 + for derbies and big matches, unheard of for similar size countries.

3. Again for such a small country the record of clubs in Europe is excellent. Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Dundee, Dundee United have all reached semi finals or won major Europen cup competitions.

4. Tv money is tiny compared to the English game. This means that League two clubs can often pay better wages than SPL clubs. This is a problem facing smaller countries all over Europe.

5. Some of the people who slag off scottish football  have never bothered to tune in. Next season watch a Glasgow, Edinburgh or Dundee (if they are drawn in the Cup) Derby and I trust you will get entertainment (as long as you enjoy traditional British fare of tough tackles, direct play and full bloodied commitment as opposed to tip tap, roll over every time you are touched European footy).

6. Finally, Scotland like many smaller countries will go through cycles, in the past twenty years they have struggled to unearth great talents. But just like Wales have enjoyed glory in the past 2 years so will Scotland in the not too distant future.

p.s I'm not Scottish. 

[reddoh]

Just now, sglosbcfc said:

Slagging off Scottish football, OK as usual I'll bite -

1. Scotland is the best supported league in Europe. Despite having a tiny population they have Celtic and Rangers averaging 50,000 +, Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts averaging over 12,000 and Dundee and Dundee United averaging over 6,000. That is despite the fact that in the past 5 years all of the biggest teams in Scotland with the exception of Celtic and Aberdeen have spent time outside the top flight.

2. Teams in the fourth tier attract gates of 1,000 + for derbies and big matches, unheard of for similar size countries.

3. Again for such a small country the record of clubs in Europe is excellent. Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Dundee, Dundee United have all reached semi finals or won major Europen cup competitions.

4. Tv money is tiny compared to the English game. This means that League two clubs can often pay better wages than SPL clubs. This is a problem facing smaller countries all over Europe.

5. Some of the people who slag off scottish football  have never bothered to tune in. Next season watch a Glasgow, Edinburgh or Dundee (if they are drawn in the Cup) Derby and I trust you will get entertainment (as long as you enjoy traditional British fare of tough tackles, direct play and full bloodied commitment as opposed to tip tap, roll over every time you are touched European footy).

6. Finally, Scotland like many smaller countries will go through cycles, in the past twenty years they have struggled to unearth great talents. But just like Wales have enjoyed glory in the past 2 years so will Scotland in the not too distant future.

p.s I'm not Scottish. 

but you are a great ambassador and if you don't mind they are by far the best country that makes whisky.

[Kodjias Wrist]

5 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

Slagging off Scottish football, OK as usual I'll bite -

1. Scotland is the best supported league in Europe. 

I stopped reading at this 

To be fair @sglosbcfc I enjoy watching any derby game in both countries leagues.

The difference in population makes it hard to determine who is better supported. You forget the fact that most prem league clubs could fit in thousands more. Man Utd and Liverpool could get 120k a game easy if the tickets were as cheap as the Old Firms.

We have 6th and 7th tier clubs averaging over 1k a week. I saw an 8th tier derby that had 3k turn up to watch. 

[TV Tom]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

What's that got to do with Scottish football?        

Well you mentioned Celtic getting stuffed by Barca 8-0 as if it's a condemnation against Scottish football so I"m asking how Arsenal got on against Bayern, I would of thought that was quite obvious

[BS4 on Tour...]

Fed up of the continual slagging of Scottish football....they are a small country with a population less than London's population yet they qualified for five consecutive World Cups when most top English clubs had Scots as first names on the teamsheet...they have punched above their weight for decades and (albeit with a vested interest) I'm fed up of the patronising criticism from south of the border....

Rangers stuffed the last great Leeds team home and away in European competition, Aberdeen beat Real Madrid in a European final, Dundee Utd got to a UEFA Cup Final and they have played Barcelona four times in European competitions and have won all four. 

Barcelona have played Scottish teams on 18 occasions in Europe and have won 6, drawn 5 and lost 7....not too shabby from a Scottish viewpoint?

As a tiny country, Scotland perform awesomely as a domestic league and a national side.....

[Kodjias Wrist]

Just now, BS4 on Tour... said:

As a tiny country, Scotland perform awesomely as a domestic league and a national side.....

Since I have been watching footy Scotland have been shit and they have continued to be shit ever since. Many smaller countries have performed better than Scotland and us. Chile, Uruguay, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland, Croatia all more successful in the last 15-20years.

I do not doubt they are domestically well supported in their leagues looking at the averages however they have fewer teams in each league and far cheaper ticket prices.

 

[Miah Dennehy]

44 minutes ago, sglosbcfc said:

Slagging off Scottish football, OK as usual I'll bite -

1. Scotland is the best supported league in Europe. Despite having a tiny population they have Celtic and Rangers averaging 50,000 +, Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts averaging over 12,000 and Dundee and Dundee United averaging over 6,000. That is despite the fact that in the past 5 years all of the biggest teams in Scotland with the exception of Celtic and Aberdeen have spent time outside the top flight.

2. Teams in the fourth tier attract gates of 1,000 + for derbies and big matches, unheard of for similar size countries.

3. Again for such a small country the record of clubs in Europe is excellent. Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Dundee, Dundee United have all reached semi finals or won major Europen cup competitions.

4. Tv money is tiny compared to the English game. This means that League two clubs can often pay better wages than SPL clubs. This is a problem facing smaller countries all over Europe.

5. Some of the people who slag off scottish football  have never bothered to tune in. Next season watch a Glasgow, Edinburgh or Dundee (if they are drawn in the Cup) Derby and I trust you will get entertainment (as long as you enjoy traditional British fare of tough tackles, direct play and full bloodied commitment as opposed to tip tap, roll over every time you are touched European footy).

6. Finally, Scotland like many smaller countries will go through cycles, in the past twenty years they have struggled to unearth great talents. But just like Wales have enjoyed glory in the past 2 years so will Scotland in the not too distant future.

p.s I'm not Scottish. 

The only thing I disagree with there, is that it is most of the people who slag off Scottish football rather than some! My standard answer to 'Scottish football is shite' is 'How many games have you been to there this season?' and the answer is invariably none.

I think a lot of people go with the 'its shite' argument because they think if everyone is saying it, it must be true . I shall be calling for a banning order on this thread against anyone who has never travelled north of Hadrians Wall for a game (Which should sort out all the ***** who support Berwick because they're English

 

[Miah Dennehy]

46 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

I stopped reading at this 

To be fair @sglosbcfc I enjoy watching any derby game in both countries leagues.

The difference in population makes it hard to determine who is better supported. You forget the fact that most prem league clubs could fit in thousands more. Man Utd and Liverpool could get 120k a game easy if the tickets were as cheap as the Old Firms.

We have 6th and 7th tier clubs averaging over 1k a week. I saw an 8th tier derby that had 3k turn up to watch. 

£47 for Celtic fans at Ibrox this season.