Bs4Red Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Congratulations to Callum O'dowda who has started against Mexico this evening/morning. This is his first start for ROI and his 5th cap. Currently 2-0 against a mixed Mexico team. Callum has looked okay, beat a couple of men and some tidy passes. ROI look very poor but have an experimental team out. Will try to keep updated if I can stay awake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted June 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Half time 2-0, can see Callum being hooked around 60/70, possibly even half time. Unfortunately for me, I can hardly keep my eyes open. Goodnight guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsapper Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 Played 90 minutes. Lost 3-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted June 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 hours ago, redsapper said: Played 90 minutes. Lost 3-1 Surprised by that, commentators suggested they would change every outfield player during the game. Well happy for him though. Shows how far he has come on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 From the thread title I thought this match might be a little one sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Acton Red Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 11 hours ago, Bs4Red said: Congratulations to Callum O'dowda who has started against Mexico this evening/morning. This is his first start for ROI and his 5th cap. Currently 2-0 against a mixed Mexico team. Callum has looked okay, beat a couple of men and some tidy passes. ROI look very poor but have an experimental team out. Will try to keep updated if I can stay awake! This guy has to be a regular starter next season,if he's starting games for ROI then surely he's good enough for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negan Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, FramptonRed said: This guy has to be a regular starter next season,if he's starting games for ROI then surely he's good enough for us. Agreed, think it'll benefit us and him if he can get some consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, FramptonRed said: This guy has to be a regular starter next season,if he's starting games for ROI then surely he's good enough for us. Could you explain a little further? He did play 39 games for us last season. Generally speaking I find the international class to be quite poor once you outside the obvious top 3. I think if ROI were playing in the English leagues they would probably be in about the same position as us but COD doesn't regularly get into that team. Dont get me wrong I think he is a good prospect with plenty of realised talent already but I believe judging a player by if they are playing for thier county isn't really a fair test of if they should be playing for thier club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Pezo said: Could you explain a little further? He did play 39 games for us last season. Generally speaking I find the international class to be quite poor once you outside the obvious top 3. I think if ROI were playing in the English leagues they would probably be in about the same position as us but COD doesn't regularly get into that team. Dont get me wrong I think he is a good prospect with plenty of realised talent already but I believe judging a player by if they are playing for thier county isn't really a fair test of if they should be playing for thier club. The slight flaw in your argument is that even lesser international teams get to play against top international teams thus these players get to test themselves against the best thereby improving their game and gaining valuable experience of playing abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted June 2, 2017 Report Share Posted June 2, 2017 13 hours ago, Bs4Red said: Congratulations to Callum O'dowda who has started against Mexico this evening/morning. Blimey he's got his work cut out for him, even if he's a top brickie that bloody wall is gonna take some building... hope The Donald has given him some help and a few labourers or he's never gonna be back in time for pre-season training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 16 hours ago, Major Isewater said: The slight flaw in your argument is that even lesser international teams get to play against top international teams thus these players get to test themselves against the best thereby improving their game and gaining valuable experience of playing abroad. I think we will have to agree to disagree on your point. We might play Chelsea or Manchester city in the cup, these teams are better than any international team but I don't believe if we play them that it's going to make our players any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, Pezo said: I think we will have to agree to disagree on your point. We might play Chelsea or Manchester city in the cup, these teams are better than any international team but I don't believe if we play them that it's going to make our players any better. Strange argument. Surely in all sports players improve by playing with and against better quality? If this wasn't the case in football, no team would bother looking at players in lower leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 Just now, Port Said Red said: Strange argument. Surely in all sports players improve by playing with and against better quality? If this wasn't the case in football, no team would bother looking at players in lower leagues. Maybe on a regular basis but not the odd one off match here and there. The best way to improve is training hard with quality facilities alongside playing games on a regular basis to put that training into practice. Players are bought from lower leagues because someone decides they are capable or potentially capable of playing in a higher league - usually because they are looking better than other players in that league, due to them training in a better way. E.g. Brighton can't just buy any player from the 4th tier now and play them in games against premier league opposition next season thinking that they will get better because they won't without the correct off pitch mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 16 minutes ago, Pezo said: Maybe on a regular basis but not the odd one off match here and there. The best way to improve is training hard with quality facilities alongside playing games on a regular basis to put that training into practice. Players are bought from lower leagues because someone decides they are capable or potentially capable of playing in a higher league - usually because they are looking better than other players in that league, due to them training in a better way. E.g. Brighton can't just buy any player from the 4th tier now and play them in games against premier league opposition next season thinking that they will get better because they won't without the correct off pitch mentality. Yes there is a combination of factors, but if a player isn't going to learn from playing against better opposition then he is never going to improve. There are quite often players who move up a level and make an impact; but once they have lost the surprise factor, they either have to develop or disappear. It's not just about coaching as there are lots of good lower league coaches and good set ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Port Said Red said: Yes there is a combination of factors, but if a player isn't going to learn from playing against better opposition then he is never going to improve. There are quite often players who move up a level and make an impact; but once they have lost the surprise factor, they either have to develop or disappear. It's not just about coaching as there are lots of good lower league coaches and good set ups. I'm not sure I get you (I might be being a bit slow). It shouldn't matter what opposition is in front of you, you are either better than them or you are not but the way you get better is by training hard every day not putting in 90 mins on a Saturday. Players get found out because they don't have a breadth of ability which limits thier options on the pitch but they learn those abilities off of the pitch. Ronaldo and Messi have been swapping the Ballon d'Or since 2008 but they don't directly (position on the pitch) play against each other but I would say Ronaldo has got much better since 2008 but by definition no one is better than him for him to be playing against so how has he got better? Training. There are a lot of good coach's and setups at lower levels I agree but the players within those setups don't usually have the same mentality as those at the top end or current situations don't allow for them to apply themselves in the same way (e.g. they finish training and they go rather than stay on an extra hour or 2 for additional training). It's all about mentality and understanding that if you want to do it on the pitch then you have to prepare yourself off of the pitch because if you do it off of the pitch then it might be ok on the pitch if you don't do it off of the pitch then it isn't ever going to work on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Pezo said: I'm not sure I get you (I might be being a bit slow). It shouldn't matter what opposition is in front of you, you are either better than them or you are not but the way you get better is by training hard every day not putting in 90 mins on a Saturday. Players get found out because they don't have a breadth of ability which limits thier options on the pitch but they learn those abilities off of the pitch. Ronaldo and Messi have been swapping the Ballon d'Or since 2008 but they don't directly (position on the pitch) play against each other but I would say Ronaldo has got much better since 2008 but by definition no one is better than him for him to be playing against so how has he got better? Training. There are a lot of good coach's and setups at lower levels I agree but the players within those setups don't usually have the same mentality as those at the top end or current situations don't allow for them to apply themselves in the same way (e.g. they finish training and they go rather than stay on an extra hour or 2 for additional training). It's all about mentality and understanding that if you want to do it on the pitch then you have to prepare yourself off of the pitch because if you do it off of the pitch then it might be ok on the pitch if you don't do it off of the pitch then it isn't ever going to work on the pitch. Sorry I just don't get why you are so adverse to the idea that playing against better players makes a player improve, it's the foundation of all sports, not just football. You can only improve by testing yourself against the best opposition you can find. If they are too good for you, you will improve your game or return to where you came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Port Said Red said: Sorry I just don't get why you are so adverse to the idea that playing against better players makes a player improve, it's the foundation of all sports, not just football. You can only improve by testing yourself against the best opposition you can find. If they are too good for you, you will improve your game or return to where you came from. Because if I played against a world best 11 I wouldn't get better but by your argument (as I understand it) this would suddenly make me a better player. IMO you can only improve by training hard, you can only show that improvement by playing against better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, Pezo said: Because if I played against a world best 11 I wouldn't get better but by your argument (as I understand it) this would suddenly make me a better player. IMO you can only improve by training hard, you can only show that improvement by playing against better players. Match experience counts as well. Not too many players out there with an old head on young shoulders - you need game time for that. In any given match, experienced and inexperienced players often stand out from the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanker Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 11 hours ago, Port Said Red said: Strange argument. Surely in all sports players improve by playing with and against better quality? If this wasn't the case in football, no team would bother looking at players in lower leagues. Freeman didn't improve playing against better quality players when we were promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted June 3, 2017 Report Share Posted June 3, 2017 36 minutes ago, Gazred said: Match experience counts as well. Not too many players out there with an old head on young shoulders - you need game time for that. In any given match, experienced and inexperienced players often stand out from the rest. No, players are picked on their potential to improve, not all do of course. My point is that you can look and continue to be a world beater at league 2, but it is only by playing at a higher level that you will find what needs to improve and how to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 12 hours ago, Pezo said: Because if I played against a world best 11 I wouldn't get better but by your argument (as I understand it) this would suddenly make me a better player. IMO you can only improve by training hard, you can only show that improvement by playing against better players. If you did every week you would, players improve by playing you improve at your job by doing it, it's the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 11 hours ago, swanker said: Freeman didn't improve playing against better quality players when we were promoted. Flint pack Bryan smith all did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 29 minutes ago, Monkeh said: If you did every week you would, players improve by playing you improve at your job by doing it, it's the same thing 23 hours ago, Pezo said: Maybe on a regular basis but not the odd one off match here and there. I improve at my job by further understanding what my job requires and then training in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 13 hours ago, Gazred said: Match experience counts as well. Not too many players out there with an old head on young shoulders - you need game time for that. In any given match, experienced and inexperienced players often stand out from the rest. Match experience helps you understand what needs to be improved but that improvement happens at training. Training is far more important for a players development than an odd game here and there against someone world class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanker Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Monkeh said: Flint pack Bryan smith all did Some on here would disagree with you on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 51 minutes ago, Pezo said: Match experience helps you understand what needs to be improved but that improvement happens at training. Training is far more important for a players development than an odd game here and there against someone world class. But if you were content to be a big fish in a small pond you would never know what was required to improve your performance. This is a crazy argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 27 minutes ago, Port Said Red said: But if you were content to be a big fish in a small pond you would never know what was required to improve your performance. This is a crazy argument. I feel like im missing something. The thing that started this discussion was COD playing a full game for ROI and someone stating that if he is playing for them he must be good enough to start for us. My point was playing the odd game here and there at ROI level isn't going to prove if he is good enough or not, or help him much. It seems like at some point the argument may have been moved on to playing regularly at a higher level than what I'm talking about which is the odd game here and there (say every 3 or 4 years) against players of a Mexican standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie BCFC Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 Will the Ireland game be on TV/streamed tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 On 03/06/2017 at 07:41, Port Said Red said: Strange argument. Surely in all sports players improve by playing with and against better quality? If this wasn't the case in football, no team would bother looking at players in lower leagues. Pezo is sort of agreeing (?) with you in later posts because he mentions training. Players should train how they are attempting to play, at the same tempo/thresholds and International football being another step up = Players improve by testing themselves in match play. Players develop via experience of different challenges in match play. Training reflects match play, however it can never truly replicate it. The relationship regarding training, improvement and match play is symbiotic. Both are essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted June 4, 2017 Report Share Posted June 4, 2017 31 minutes ago, Flint says No said: Will the Ireland game be on TV/streamed tonight? It`s live on eir Sport 1 at 6:00 so I guess there`s a stream available somewhere. Don`t think it`s a channel you can get on Sky though without paying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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