Super Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Sounds like a lot of money is being raised for the families. Well done to all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northsomersetred Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Not a good advert for Beko appliances and EWI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, BigTone said: Interesting that the cladding sub contractor went bust which could add fuel to the argument of them supplying a substandard product to try and make a few much needed quid. In saying that Rydon (the main contractor) should have been on top of this and would / should have approved the material spec to be installed. I just can't believe that the cladding wouldn't be fire retardant in this day and age but looking at the photos it does seem that way - a block like that doesn't into a complete inferno in under 5 minutes without something being very flammable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northsomersetred Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said: Listening to the on going reporting on R5, it seems that more and more experts are suggesting that the cladding might be an issue. If it was done on the cheap and not up to fire standards, then someone is in the shit. The inherrent design of that particular type of EWI it makes it act like a chimney because of the air gap between the insulation and the weather protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tomarse said: I just can't believe that the cladding wouldn't be fire retardant in this day and age but looking at the photos it does seem that way - a block like that doesn't into a complete inferno in under 5 minutes without something being very flammable. You are spot on Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said: I'd like to say I am surprised, but I assume most of this is caused by cost cutting, whether it be using inferior materials, cheap labour, lack of genuine time served tradesmen etc. A contractor effectively "buys" a job and then has to make the sums work. They screw their subcontractors over price and a problem starts to germinate. The problem is people in the councils do not always understand that the lowest price isn't always the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, northsomersetred said: The inherrent design of that particular type of EWI it makes it act like a chimney because of the air gap between the insulation and the weather protection. Still shouldn't burn so easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northsomersetred Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, BigTone said: Still shouldn't burn so easily It shouldn't but get a piece of kingspan or celotex or similar and put a blow torch to it and see what happens, you'll be surprised. Aluminium burns and this was used as the weather proofing over the ewi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 1 minute ago, northsomersetred said: It shouldn't but get a piece of kingspan or celotex or similar and put a blow torch to it and see what happens, you'll be surprised. Aluminium burns and this was used as the weather proofing over the ewi The problem is that the product should never have been approved in the first place as it was not fit for purpose. An Architect somewhere must be bricking it TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northsomersetred Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, BigTone said: The problem is that the product should never have been approved in the first place as it was not fit for purpose. An Architect somewhere must be bricking it TBH. I'd be more worried if i was the risk manager for the liability insurance company for Beko UK. I'll put good money on it this was started by a faulty appliance and it was a Beko appliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, northsomersetred said: I'd be more worried if i was the risk manager for the liability insurance company for Beko UK. I'll put good money on it this was started by a faulty appliance and it was a Beko appliance. Maybe so but the building apparently has a history of faulty wiring and dangerous power surges. If that is the case why didn't a trip switch kick in ? Seems to me like a combination of many issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted June 14, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Sorry if I'm a bit dumb, what's EWI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: Sorry if I'm a bit dumb, what's EWI? I'm gonna guess external wall insulation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northsomersetred Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dollymarie said: I'm gonna guess external wall insulation Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted June 14, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 I guess some rewriting of the regs regarding refurbishing tower blocks will keep someone employed for a wee while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Condolences to those who have lost friends, family, neighbours. Respect to the Fire Brigade for their heroics (speak to a FB chap from East End, Hammers fan, every other Sat when taking my daughter to ballet). Respect too to the local community all pulling together. Some s**t that London has gone through in the last couple of weeks. Heads will roll bigtime, sudden resignations and retirements - you see. Some people have lots to answer for. And the pictures don't look any better. Some floors still on fire. Awful. Sad. Shocking. Preventable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 51 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: I guess some rewriting of the regs regarding refurbishing tower blocks will keep someone employed for a wee while. No amount of re-writing will fix this problem, the route cause of all this is government cuts to local councils and emergency services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 2 hours ago, BigTone said: A contractor effectively "buys" a job and then has to make the sums work. They screw their subcontractors over price and a problem starts to germinate. The problem is people in the councils do not always understand that the lowest price isn't always the best. Absolutely. And it's why a good QS is worth their weight in gold. I work in the finance department of a construction company and we've gone through several bad ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted June 15, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 7 hours ago, Monkeh said: No amount of re-writing will fix this problem, the route cause of all this is government cuts to local councils and emergency services Not saying I disagree about cuts to emergency services, but I doubt if there was double the amount of firefighters available, the outcome would have been any different. That spread so quickly, it's a design or material issue, rather than a reactive problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 12 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: Not saying I disagree about cuts to emergency services, but I doubt if there was double the amount of firefighters available, the outcome would have been any different. That spread so quickly, it's a design or material issue, rather than a reactive problem. The material used would be cheap shit because of cuts to council budgets and the pressure to do more with less, considering this has happened before and the government said lesion were learned but suppressed the report this will happen again sadly and it doesn't surprise me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 9 hours ago, Northern Red said: Absolutely. And it's why a good QS is worth their weight in gold. I work in the finance department of a construction company and we've gone through several bad ones! Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 10 hours ago, BanburyRed said: . Preventable. That's the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Monkeh said: The material used would be cheap shit because of cuts to council budgets and the pressure to do more with less, Exactly the same scenario in the NHS. Spoke to senior finance officers many times and the same response every time. "There's no money to do the work properly" I could give numerous examples. One of them said that the Trust were desperate not to be exploited by money grabbing builders...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 51 minutes ago, Robbored said: Exactly the same scenario in the NHS. Spoke to senior finance officers many times and the same response every time. "There's no money to do the work properly" I could give numerous examples. One of them said that the Trust were desperate not to be exploited by money grabbing builders...... It's the same on the railway and with the police, two industry's I know a lot about, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Heart warming to see all the stuff that has been donated from people. This country is at it's best in troubled times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 No more suvivers to be found. What really scares me is they won't even give an estimate to how many people are unaccounted for. Got a feeling its going to be a really horrific number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Just now, Tomarse said: No more suvivers to be found. What really scares me is they won't even give an estimate to how many people are unaccounted for. Got a feeling its going to be a really horrific number. Sadly I think you are right Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Can't imagine the horrific scenes the emergency services are seeing going through the rooms and floors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 17 confirmed dead now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Super said: Sadly I think you are right Tom. Pretty much confirmed - Met Police Commander Stuart Cundy said: "It would be wrong and incredibly distressing to give a number [of the missing]". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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