Lee Tomlin

[Lew-T]

4 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Where has the can't manage 'fact' come from though? So every player that moves on is because a manager 'can't manage' them? Or maybe they're just not a good fit for the club.

Tammy at 18 is twice the player Tomlin will ever be and he managed him just fine so that kind of undermines the 'can't manage' thing. As does a young talented player like Brownhill choosing to come here having already been managed by 'can't manage players' Johnson.

So as Bournemouth chose to move him on, then that means Eddie Howe can't manage players too?

We bought him because he had a staggeringly good loan spell as you well know. It's almost like he was on his best behaviour trying to earn a big fat signing bonus....

But no doubt, no blame could ever be apportioned to poor hard done by Tommo! Bottom line is he's been lazy, selfish and failed to deliver despite constant attempts to accommodate him. 

Have I said every player that has moved on? Look, his record as a manager speaks for itself. It's been awful ever since the promotion season and I really can't see it changing with LJ still in charge. The bloke led us to a club record of defeats? 

Okay so two players you've mentioned, one of which was a loan. What about the managing master of Magnusson, Engvall, Reid, Bryan who all under achieved last season? 

 

[JamesBCFC]

2 hours ago, Thatch35 said:

Nob

 

2 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Sorry?

Much like it did to yourself B86, the response from Thatch made no sense to me.

After some thought (and an awful lot of stretching) I have come to the following conclusion.

Yourself and Thatch were in the midst of a game of cribbage whilst engaging in the debate on this thread, however only Thatch was aware of the forum identity of his/her opponent.

Upon counting the scoring at the end of a hand, Thatch was merely pointing out the dealers bonus point for having a Jack of the same suit as the turn card. Said point is called "one for his nob"

Mystery solved

[fishpondsred]

Produces a whole mix of emotions this one. On the one hand an incredible talent but so inconsistent as well. Cannot escape the fact that the team did better at the end of last season when Tomlin was not playing. Overall, my hope was that LJ was going to succeed in getting a rejuvenated and consistently focused Tomlin for this next season - a Tomlin of this kind has sufficient talent to have been worth organising the whole formation around. That this looks like it is not going to happen is perhaps either an indicator of LJ's weakness as a manager or that Tomlin was a disruptive influence behind the scenes. For the sake of the future with LJ at the helm - let's hope it is the latter!

[Sleepy1968]

39 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Where has the can't manage 'fact' come from though? So every player that moves on is because a manager 'can't manage' them? Or maybe they're just not a good fit for the club.

Tammy at 18 is twice the player Tomlin will ever be and he managed him just fine so that kind of undermines the 'can't manage' thing. As does a young talented player like Brownhill choosing to come here having already been managed by 'can't manage players' Johnson.

So as Bournemouth chose to move him on, then that means Eddie Howe can't manage players too?

We bought him because he had a staggeringly good loan spell as you well know. It's almost like he was on his best behaviour trying to earn a big fat signing bonus....

But no doubt, no blame could ever be apportioned to poor hard done by Tommo! Bottom line is he's been lazy, selfish and failed to deliver despite constant attempts to accommodate him. 

We're on the same wavelength.

I don't understand why some posters are perfectly willing to forgive LT for a lack of personal responsibility, but on the other hand are quite happy to give LJ no leeway whatsoever. Lets just hope this sorry saga is behind us soon.

[Son of Fred]

4 hours ago, shelts said:

Fair play you have nailed your colours to the mast . Reading this post I agree with bits but not all. Time will tell . We have a few that I'm not convinced about and that includes the manager. I think players are over coached these days and the game overthought 

Good point-the great Brian Clough was of the opinion football is a simple game..I understand times change,the game is faster,players fitter/stronger but fundimentally has the game changed so much??

[Ian M]

1 hour ago, 54-46 said:

Go on then, I'll bite as you've been keen to mention it twice. What are these "off the field" issues?

Excuse my ignorance if it's common knowledge though

I believe it was expected of him to move to Bristol but due to marital pressure this did not happen. Wouldn't be the first man to have strife at home and not leave it at the door at work?

[Strictly Obi]

3 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

We're on the same wavelength.

I don't understand why some posters are perfectly willing to forgive LT for a lack of personal responsibility, but on the other hand are quite happy to give LJ no leeway whatsoever. Lets just hope this sorry saga is behind us soon.

Nothing to understand mate. The serial agendists are just miserable gits!  Like you say, there is no rationale to explain it.

LJ is doing no better or worse than any other manager we've had in the last 20yrs.  The blokes just being given more time, than his predecessor's. 

Tomlin IMHO is not a team player, and I'm personally pleased he's off. 

And I'm looking forward to the new season, even if they're not! 

[Sprocket]

I think he got himself fit and trim ready for the transfer,not to play for us.

But then i`m a negative person.  

[JoeAman08]

How people can defend LT after the shower of shite he displayed game after game is beyond me. Then they blame LJ and say relegation looms. The irony is when LT played last year it was like playing with 10. Also, those bits of magic they talked about never happened!! This move would be the club progressing. Making a football and business decision to not only get rid of a player that clearly doesn't fit but getting a good deal for him. But we won't see a rabona or cross field pass with the outside of a foot. If we had finished 8th and sold Tomlin I could see not wanting to lose the talent as he has the ability to take a team like that and get them that extra spark for playoffs. We need to get to midtable first and then start adding Lee Tomlins. And news flash, better and better players are coming to the English second tier. Talented players that'll also work hard. Lee Tomlin is falling down the list of best players in the division every week. Use the money and wages and attract that player. 

[REDOXO]

35 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

How people can defend LT after the shower of shite he displayed game after game is beyond me. Then they blame LJ and say relegation looms. The irony is when LT played last year it was like playing with 10. Also, those bits of magic they talked about never happened!! This move would be the club progressing. Making a football and business decision to not only get rid of a player that clearly doesn't fit but getting a good deal for him. But we won't see a rabona or cross field pass with the outside of a foot. If we had finished 8th and sold Tomlin I could see not wanting to lose the talent as he has the ability to take a team like that and get them that extra spark for playoffs. We need to get to midtable first and then start adding Lee Tomlins. And news flash, better and better players are coming to the English second tier. Talented players that'll also work hard. Lee Tomlin is falling down the list of best players in the division every week. Use the money and wages and attract that player. 

If Colin thought that Tomlin was shit was the case he would not be offering him a contract, and us a transfer fee that is somewhere close to what we paid before add ons, if that is indeed what is happening here. 

Who the hell knows if relegation looms. I certainly don't, however there were plenty defending Engval being an awful signing where there not? 

When LT played earlier in the season we won games, however this gradually disapated as we lost game after game after a changed formation and personnel week after week regardless of result. 

If Tomlin did not fit why did we buy him, who knows right? Ask LJ and MA  

Its clear to me there is an issue with Tomlin and LJ and has been for a while. I agree despite everything, and as much is it gets up my nose, LJ AND LT being anywhere near each other is counter productive to our club. I'm not getting into who may or not be to blame, but if we have a good season then LJ will get the plaudits if we don't after a third window he will have to accept what's coming. 

So newsflash most don't care who are 11/16 are, LJ now owns them. WINNING football matches is what I care about and nearly everyone on this forum. I suspect you too?

 

[BRISTOL86]

7 hours ago, Lew-T said:

Have I said every player that has moved on? Look, his record as a manager speaks for itself. It's been awful ever since the promotion season and I really can't see it changing with LJ still in charge. The bloke led us to a club record of defeats? 

Okay so two players you've mentioned, one of which was a loan. What about the managing master of Magnusson, Engvall, Reid, Bryan who all under achieved last season? 

 

Magnusson played over half a season and seems earring to go this year.  

Engvall a young player who for whatever reason hasn't had his chance. I'm guessing you know nothing about the reasons for the situation the same as everyone else? Had almost a mirror image season to Taylor Moore yet no one claims he's managed Moore badly?

Young Bobby(!) and Bryan have been underachieving for years before Johnson!!

As for LJs record - he has a better win rate in the championship than Cotterill. Can he also 'not manage players' ? He chose to move on JET who he brought in, is it because he couldn't manage him? Or simply that he no longer fit in with what he was trying to do? Presumably he also couldn't manage Cunningham?

All just seems a bit clutching at straws and making mountains out of molehills tbh. 

[BRISTOL86]

6 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

We're on the same wavelength.

I don't understand why some posters are perfectly willing to forgive LT for a lack of personal responsibility, but on the other hand are quite happy to give LJ no leeway whatsoever. Lets just hope this sorry saga is behind us soon.

He only earns 20k a week, why should he take any responsibility for his performances? 

[Monkeh]

17 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Brilliantly put!

Personally gutted as LT is an undoubted talent and should be staying with us. 

The same "old" with the Johnson's 

Dad couldn't handle Lee Trundle

Son couldn't handle Lee Tomlin

You watch Lee Tomlin going and rip the Championship a brand new arsehole this season

I do worry about our lot at times and this definitely shows up a weakness in our current manager 

what like he did at all the other clubs that didn't want him because he is disruptive,

it isn't johnson that is the problem here it is tomlin, that or howe is weak and crap

[Monkeh]

14 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Forget the management side of things but is Johnson actually a good coach? Everone seems to have got worse under his stead.

apart from Tammy, brownhill, pack, smith, o'dowda, taylor, flint...........

[Carey 6]

7 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

apart from Tammy, brownhill, pack, smith, o'dowda, taylor, flint...........

Do you honestly believe O'Dowda became a better player over the season? I thought the game he looked most impressive was Wigan at home & then didn't kick on at all. Massively overrated for me, this season is huge for him. Also thought Smith was a better player under Cotterill.

Taylor I'm not sure you can apply this to, I haven't noticed any real difference in him since he signed to say he's become a better player under Johnsons coaching. 

I'd definitely give you Pack, since Johnson come in I reckon he's one of our most important players & he'd be the first name on the team sheet for me.

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

10 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Do you honestly believe O'Dowda became a better player over the season? I thought the game he looked most impressive was Wigan at home & then didn't kick on at all. Massively overrated for me, this season is huge for him. Also thought Smith was a better player under Cotterill.

Taylor I'm not sure you can apply this to, I haven't noticed any real difference in him since he signed to say he's become a better player under Johnsons coaching. 

I'd definitely give you Pack, since Johnson come in I reckon he's one of our most important players & he'd be the first name on the team sheet for me.

 

Completly disagree about O'Dowda.  It was only in the last third of the season that I began to see anything in the guy, and in the last few games he did enough to convince me that he is a prospect.  Smith was certainly better under Cotterill, but that was because he was fully fit under Cotterill while he has been struggling with injury over the past two seasons.  This is his first decent pre-season since League One (and I hope the knock he got at Bath isn't anything serious).

[BobBobSuperBob]

53 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

apart from Tammy, brownhill, pack, smith, o'dowda, taylor, flint...........

Fantasist

Back in the  real world ....

[shelts]

8 hours ago, Robert the bruce said:

Good point-the great Brian Clough was of the opinion football is a simple game..I understand times change,the game is faster,players fitter/stronger but fundimentally has the game changed so much??

Clough very much the maverick manager that won a stack of trophies at unfashionable clubs . Very good point 

[shelts]

Any news on when we can expect to hear anything officially?

[chipdawg]

I'm glad I'm not some of your managers at work

ME: "Smith, why has your performance been so poor this year?"

EMPLOYEE: "Well it's your fault boss. I'm a bit of character and you can't manage me. If you'd leave, I'd be much more productive"

ME: "You're a 28 year old man, you're paid a good salary to do a job. Why won't you act like a responsible adult and get on with the job you're paid to do?"

EMPLOYEE: "You're just like your dad, you can't handle 'proper' employees"

ME: "You'll receive your P45 in the next two weeks, a basic reference will be provided. Goodbye"

Lee Tomlin is a highly paid, senior professional footballer. He should be capable of maintaining a basic level of performance, fitness and behaviour without constant hand holding from his manager. LJ has to take responsibility for a lot of things that went wrong last season, but Tomlin being fat and useless for much of last season is not one of them. On his day, LT is the kind of player you pay your ticket price to watch all by himself. But those days were so few and far between and he looked so disinterested last season that I have zero ***** to give if he leaves- especially for a good price. Mercurial teenagers need an arm around them and a sympathetic manager to support them when things aren't going well. 28 year old, multi-million £ players should be able to put a shift in regardless

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

I'm glad I'm not some of your managers at work

ME: "Smith, why has your performance been so poor this year?"

EMPLOYEE: "Well it's your fault boss. I'm a bit of character and you can't manage me. If you'd leave, I'd be much more productive"

ME: "You're a 28 year old man, you're paid a good salary to do a job. Why won't you act like a responsible adult and get on with the job you're paid to do?"

EMPLOYEE: "You're just like your dad, you can't handle 'proper' employees"

ME: "You'll receive your P45 in the next two weeks, a basic reference will be provided. Goodbye"

Lee Tomlin is a highly paid, senior professional footballer. He should be capable of maintaining a basic level of performance, fitness and behaviour without constant hand holding from his manager. LJ has to take responsibility for a lot of things that went wrong last season, but Tomlin being fat and useless for much of last season is not one of them. On his day, LT is the kind of player you pay your ticket price to watch all by himself. But those days were so few and far between and he looked so disinterested last season that I have zero ***** to give if he leaves- especially for a good price. Mercurial teenagers need an arm around them and a sympathetic manager to support them when things aren't going well. 28 year old, multi-million £ players should be able to put a shift in regardless

But we KNEW or surely had at least a very good idea that this wasn't the case with Tomlin. He has clearly had his issues with authority before ie Eddie Howe at B'mouth.

LJ presumably thought he could tame the beast hence we signed him. It hasn't worked out.

[Lew-T]

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Magnusson played over half a season and seems earring to go this year.  

Engvall a young player who for whatever reason hasn't had his chance. I'm guessing you know nothing about the reasons for the situation the same as everyone else? Had almost a mirror image season to Taylor Moore yet no one claims he's managed Moore badly?

Young Bobby(!) and Bryan have been underachieving for years before Johnson!!

As for LJs record - he has a better win rate in the championship than Cotterill. Can he also 'not manage players' ? He chose to move on JET who he brought in, is it because he couldn't manage him? Or simply that he no longer fit in with what he was trying to do? Presumably he also couldn't manage Cunningham?

All just seems a bit clutching at straws and making mountains out of molehills tbh. 

Gary O'Neil, Callum O'dowda etc. More players that have been below par so far and have cost the club millions. Do you trust LJ coping and getting the best out of these players this season? Sure they all have huge potential but I'm not sure Lee is the right man to make them better players.

I don't think Joe has been underachieving for years as you put it. He's been successful getting into the first team,  being a first choice and was a big part of the promotion season. However, his career has stalled and was below par last season. I don't rate him but he hasn't underachieved.

If Lee Johnson wasn't a mate of the owner, he'd be manager of a League One club by now. That's why he has a chance of having a better rate than Cott's. Club record defeats in history and still in the job? 

If LJ was available now, no mug in this division would touch him.

[INCRED]

Let's be honest, Tomlin has an ego and wants his team mates to massage it. He's not the sharpest tool in the box as we have seen in some of the social media and has been found out that he can't apply the work rate required for this league and certainly with the pattern of play we need at present. The guy is a maverick and on his day is an undoubted talent but his disruptive nature amongst a young squad is counter productive for us to have a close knit team spirit and the last 7- 8 games of the season showed that him not in the team can deliver positive performances.

Tomlin has talent but then again it has to be coupled with work rate to justify a place in any team and that can be applied to any work place

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

26 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

But we KNEW or surely had at least a very good idea that this wasn't the case with Tomlin. He has clearly had his issues with authority before ie Eddie Howe at B'mouth.

LJ presumably thought he could tame the beast hence we signed him. It hasn't worked out.

While I liked Chipdawg's post, you've also made a decent point.  You know what you're going to get with players like Tomlin, and presumably City had done their due diligence.  Too many years of recruiting staff, sometimes to quite senior positions, has taught me that you can improve someone's skills (up to a point), but it is very hard to turn around a bad attitude.  These days I go for team fit above everything else.

[BRISTOL86]

24 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Gary O'Neil, Callum O'dowda etc. More players that have been below par so far and have cost the club millions. Do you trust LJ coping and getting the best out of these players this season? Sure they all have huge potential but I'm not sure Lee is the right man to make them better players.

I don't think Joe has been underachieving for years as you put it. He's been successful getting into the first team,  being a first choice and was a big part of the promotion season. However, his career has stalled and was below par last season. I don't rate him but he hasn't underachieved.

If Lee Johnson wasn't a mate of the owner, he'd be manager of a League One club by now. That's why he has a chance of having a better rate than Cott's. Club record defeats in history and still in the job? 

If LJ was available now, no mug in this division would touch him.

He's got a win rate in the Championship on par with several well established championship managers so you've undermined your own point there really.

You and others are blinded by the - admittedly appalling - run of defeats that was horrendous but refusing to see the bugger picture because it doesn't suit the argument  

He survived that spell because he was a mate of the owner, no two ways about that. Even Oxford fans told you that COD wasn't ready for the championship. But he was never brought in to be an immediate key player for the team.

He, Brownhill, Magnusson, Moore, Engvall and others were all brought here to give us development over a period of a few years. It's simply impossible to say whether that's going to come to anything as yet. 

I'm not a Johnson 'fan' by any stretch - I was fiercely critical during the bad run and called for him to be sacked on multiple occasions. But the constant blaming of one individual for anything that ever goes wrong at the club is so boring now.

Plenty of players didn't work out under Cotterill, he never got the sort of stick Lee Johnson does. Then again he wasn't Lee Johnson.....

I see the Bovril price has risen during his tenure as well, the ******* thieving midget. 

[glynriley]

3 hours ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Magnusson played over half a season and seems earring to go this year.  

Engvall a young player who for whatever reason hasn't had his chance. I'm guessing you know nothing about the reasons for the situation the same as everyone else? Had almost a mirror image season to Taylor Moore yet no one claims he's managed Moore badly?

Young Bobby(!) and Bryan have been underachieving for years before Johnson!!

As for LJs record - he has a better win rate in the championship than Cotterill. Can he also 'not manage players' ? He chose to move on JET who he brought in, is it because he couldn't manage him? Or simply that he no longer fit in with what he was trying to do? Presumably he also couldn't manage Cunningham?

All just seems a bit clutching at straws and making mountains out of molehills tbh. 

** PEDANT ALERT **

SOD bought JET, not Cotterill.

[chipdawg]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

But we KNEW or surely had at least a very good idea that this wasn't the case with Tomlin. He has clearly had his issues with authority before ie Eddie Howe at B'mouth.

LJ presumably thought he could tame the beast hence we signed him. It hasn't worked out.

LJ didn't sign him though, our 'transfer panel' did- of which LJ is a member. And how do we know that when he signed Tomlin wasn't asked to give assurances about his conduct, fitness, etc? How do we know LJ didn't sit down with him and explain exactly what was expected of LT before the season started? 

I'm sick and tired of people excusing poor conduct, poor effort and poor attitude in senior footballers. I'm all for talented youngsters being helped through the early stages of their career to achieve their potential, but Tomlin is 28 years old and paid a small fortune. It's not unreasonable to expect him to at least look like he's trying for most of a 90 minute game

[BRISTOL86]

7 minutes ago, glynriley said:

** PEDANT ALERT **

SOD bought JET, not Cotterill.

My mistake! Good point! 

[BRISTOL86]

8 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

LJ didn't sign him though, our 'transfer panel' did- of which LJ is a member. And how do we know that when he signed Tomlin wasn't asked to give assurances about his conduct, fitness, etc? How do we know LJ didn't sit down with him and explain exactly what was expected of LT before the season started? 

I'm sick and tired of people excusing poor conduct, poor effort and poor attitude in senior footballers. I'm all for talented youngsters being helped through the early stages of their career to achieve their potential, but Tomlin is 28 years old and paid a small fortune. It's not unreasonable to expect him to at least look like he's trying for most of a 90 minute game

Nail on the ******* head.

Oh but he's a maverick, troubled soul! That's what makes him so Tomlin. 

**** off. 

The fact that Tomlin could learn an awful lot from Tammy about attitude (his mum still buys his trousers!) speaks volumes. 

'You have to be a big manager to handle big personalities'. No, you need to be a mug to tolerate it. 

[Monkeh]

3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Nail on the ******* head.

Oh but he's a maverick, troubled soul! That's what makes him so Tomlin. 

**** off. 

if Tomlin was as good as his ego thinks he is, he'd be at Real Madrid, The fact Cardiff are in for him (a mid table club at best at the moment) says it all, no prem club will touch him because he hasn't got the tools to be a success there,

So if we ever had ambitions of being a prem club we'd of got rid of him anyway, Look at the teams that have gone up recently, most have done it by hard work and have the ability to grind out results, We've got the hard work but we can't grind out results,