Tomlin to Cardiff - CONFIRMED

[SecretSam]

1 hour ago, paulcityfan said:

Nooo.  You've either got it or you haven't. Age has FA to do with it

Maybe he has got it, which is why Tomlin had to go.  He was disrupting the rest of the squad morale, didn't fit with plans, etc.  As others have said, Eddie Howe couldn't get the best out of LT, so...

[Jack Dawe]

7 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Fair appraisal. 

The 'green shoots' of the improved performances and results towards the end of the season, indeed, gives some hope. My hope is a little dampened by the Brum performance and the lamentable effort at Torquay which demonstrated to me at least that we're light years away from a sustainable model that SL wants to build. 

Love SLs vision, but remain concerned about its delivery. 

The transfers this Summer are going to be critical - which shouldn't be the case as this window should have been just 'fine tuning'. The two players we've bought in to date in key positions are unfamiliar with the Championship and have got to deliver immediately. Big ask. 

Anyhows, onwards and upwards.

 

The Brum performance is interesting.

Clearly, the players were miles off it, a classic example of "on the beach," and assuming Johnson did not tell them to take it easy and play half-heartedly, the opposite in fact, we can deduce that his words and preparation in the build up that week had little if no impact on the players. None at all.

Equally, the piss-poor performances of Wolves and QPR (Wolves missing their best player Costa through injury, and QPR so unmotivated, one player apart, it drove Holloway to distraction) after our capitulation at Preston, and their general sense of "meh" as both were safe, all this had as much to do with our "top six" run of form til the end of the season. Yes, Taylor's performance helped considerably, as did Frank's save at 0:0 v Wolves, but it was timing as much as anything. Wolves and QPR couldn't be bothered. They were "on the beach."

If anyone doubts this, think how we struggled against a motivated Barnsley, until they lost a central defender at half-time. We were shite again, and a goal down at half-time, back in the mire. We looked no better than when we were losing 8 in a row.

I think my point is, Johnson's "spiel" and constant gibber-gabber, his ability to motivate, is nothing like what he imagines in his own mind it is; it works on SL (to my surprise; I would imagine him to be wary of a bull-shitter) and Mark Ashton, no surprise there. Media outlets also take to it. Players though, they play when they want to, when they have to, and when the conditions are right. Getting Tomlin out of the team and creating unity, that and the poorly motivated performances of Wolves and QPR in successive home games saved our necks last season.

Johnson's most important time is now, in recruitment. As well as he did with Tammy, he f***** up with Tomlin and had a very humbling lesson in how effective his "emotional intelligence" is in motivating different players. Get good enough players and characters in and they will sort the season out.

Johnson needs to use his cheeky-chappy Cockernee bullshit spiel to persuade some good players to sign on the dotted line. 

 

 

[Red Army 75]

Also think a major reason of getting rid of Tomlin. Was the new pizzeria opening. 

[Red Exile]

8 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Maybe he has got it, which is why Tomlin had to go.  He was disrupting the rest of the squad morale, didn't fit with plans, etc.  As others have said, Eddie Howe couldn't get the best out of LT, so...

...so...the question that needs asking and answering behind closed doors at Ashton Gate is "why did we sign Lee Tomlin in the first place"? 

[RedRock]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Fair appraisal too.  

I was disappointed by the Torquay result too.  Sounded like Ivan kept us in.  It was a young side, but at some point we are expecting some if them to take their fledgling careers by the scruff of the neck, and turn the, into proper careers.  It is a numbers games at youth level.

Yep. 

No excuses for that performance. Torquay, a Club in crisis dependent on loans and freebies, fielded a side most of whom didn't know the names of the players they were playing with. They seemed as youthful as our side and did a mass substitution in the second-half which involved their very young, youngsters.

The guy from Swindon comes with good reports so, hopefully, something will change. It needs to and quickly. 

Let's hope the Club have finally turned a corner and it will now push on and deliver what SL and the fans deserve.

 

[pillred]

1 minute ago, Red Exile said:

...so...the question that needs asking and answering behind closed doors at Ashton Gate is "why did we sign Lee Tomlin in the first place"? 

because potentially he is a world beater on his day, unfortunately that's all it was really a day.

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

...so...the question that needs asking and answering behind closed doors at Ashton Gate is "why did we sign Lee Tomlin in the first place"? 

I think also because Lansdown loves a marquee signing, it's the sort of signing that would sell tickets and show he's prepared to back his choice manager. 

 

[RedRock]

10 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

The Brum performance is interesting.

Clearly, the players were miles off it, a classic example of "on the beach," and assuming Johnson did not tell them to take it easy and play half-heartedly, the opposite in fact, we can deduce that his words and preparation in the build up that week had little if no impact on the players. None at all.

Equally, the piss-poor performances of Wolves and QPR (Wolves missing their best player Costa through injury, and QPR so unmotivated, one player apart, it drove Holloway to distraction) after our capitulation at Preston, and their general sense of "meh" as both were safe, all this had as much to do with our "top six" run of form til the end of the season. Yes, Taylor's performance helped considerably, as did Frank's save at 0:0 v Wolves, but it was timing as much as anything. Wolves and QPR couldn't be bothered. They were "on the beach."

If anyone doubts this, think how we struggled against a motivated Barnsley, until they lost a central defender at half-time. We were shite again, and a goal down at half-time, back in the mire. We looked no better than when we were losing 8 in a row.

I think my point is, Johnson's "spiel" and constant gibber-gabber, his ability to motivate, is nothing like what he imagines in his own mind it is; it works on SL (to my surprise; I would imagine him to be wary of a bull-shitter) and Mark Ashton, no surprise there. Media outlets also take to it. Players though, they play when they want to, when they have to, and when the conditions are right. Getting Tomlin out of the team and creating unity, that and the poorly motivated performances of Wolves and QPR in successive home games saved our necks last season.

Johnson's most important time is now, in recruitment. As well as he did with Tammy, he f***** up with Tomlin and had a very humbling lesson in how effective his "emotional intelligence" is in motivating different players. Get good enough players and characters in and they will sort the season out.

Johnson needs to use his cheeky-chappy Cockernee bullshit spiel to persuade some good players to sign on the dotted line. 

 

 

Would give you a double 'like', if I could, for that. 

[Red Exile]

Just now, pillred said:

because potentially he is a world beater on his day, unfortunately that's all it was really a day.

 

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

I think also because Lansdown loves a marquee signing, it's the sort of signing that would sell tickets and show he's prepared to back his choice manager. 

 

I agree with both of you, but if he's allegedly disruptive, doesn't fit into plans, only delivers occasionally and no one he ever plays for can manage him...which seems to be the consensus on here now he's left...how come MA and LJ didn't spot that before they put a contract in front of him? I'm not suggesting that that is a question that will ever be answered! Signing Lee Tomlin now looks like a terrible bit of business.

[chipdawg]

11 hours ago, GILLI said:

Stockhausen tweeting that the players won't miss him, Not one player has tweeted congrats on the move, or good luck ... is that a sign he wasn't well liked ....

also Timman posting that the club always comes first (liked by Jon Lansdown).. all points towards him being a dick, and the team and club will be a happier one without him here 

I wonder if as well as us fans finding we were watching a different Tomlin once he'd signed permanently, the players found they were colleagues with a different Tomlin once he'd signed permanently 

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Moor2Sea said:

Nail on head.

Football is about results, it's about continuous improvement. Players/fans and normally owners, can't wait a season or 3  while the manager learns his trade (or, more likely, fails to learn his trade) and gets up to speed.

You don't do an apprenticeship in the Championship.  

I can only think that SL has a different model to the other 91 league clubs, believes our manager is potentially a 'worldie'' and will remain loyal to the Club should the likes of Chelsea come knocking at our door in a couple of season's time when we are pressing for a place in Europe. 

Can't say he has impressed me to date and feel that he will be doing nothing other than fighting relegation battles from the Championship. Sure he'll prove me wrong. I certainly hope so. 

yes football is about results, and just taken on results and win rate, then Johnson is up there with alot of championship managers, he has a better win % then Mick Mcarthy does at ipswich, Ian Holloway at QPR, Nigel Clough at Burton,

So going on that currently there are 3 teams that will finish below him in terms of results,

But there is more too it then that, Lee is a decent fellow and a decent coach who is well thought of, He isn't a head coach/manager for me, but thats by the by we are stuck with him so have to get behind him not because of him because I don't support Lee Johnson I support Bristol City, and if I'm behind him the nit helps my team,

Lee won't be here forever the club will be,

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

 

I agree with both of you, but if he's allegedly disruptive, doesn't fit into plans, only delivers occasionally and no one he ever plays for can manage him...which seems to be the consensus on here now he's left...how come MA and LJ didn't spot that before they put a contract in front of him? I'm not suggesting that that is a question that will ever be answered! Signing Lee Tomlin now looks like a terrible bit of business.

I think they knew that. He was probably impeccably behaved during his loan, perhaps a bit of naivety/arrogance that we could 'tame' him based on his loan spell.

I don't agree it's terrible business, we've basically recouped our outlay. If we'd sold him for half the fee he cost us then yes it would be.

If I was in LJ's shoes after his loan, I know I'd have been tempted to get him permenantly.

[pillred]

1 minute ago, Red Exile said:

 

I agree with both of you, but if he's allegedly disruptive, doesn't fit into plans, only delivers occasionally and no one he ever plays for can manage him...which seems to be the consensus on here now he's left...how come MA and LJ didn't spot that before they put a contract in front of him? I'm not suggesting that that is a question that will ever be answered! Signing Lee Tomlin now looks like a terrible bit of business.

as others have said as a manager you think I can be the one that changes him, it's probably an ego thing, I think lee is definitely drinking in the last chance saloon though.

[simon uk]

13 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

...so...the question that needs asking and answering behind closed doors at Ashton Gate is "why did we sign Lee Tomlin in the first place"? 

And then ask the same question about engvall too. And possibly a few more as well.

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think they knew that. He was probably impeccably behaved during his loan, perhaps a bit of naivety/arrogance that we could 'tame' him based on his loan spell.

I don't agree it's terrible business, we've basically recouped our outlay. If we'd sold him for half the fee he cost us then yes t would be.

If I was in LJ's shoes after his loan, I know I'd have been tempted to get him permenantly.

Me too...and I am of course gifted with hindsight!

Btw I think you are on to something with "naivety/arrogance"...I think, as club, City lack judgement and experience off the pitch, but that's another discussion!

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Me too...and I am of course gifted with hindsight!

Btw I think you are on to something with "naivety/arrogance"...I think, as club, City lack judgement and experience off the pitch, but that's another discussion!

Me three.

re naivety / arrogance, we are playing catch-up in a world of stupid £s, and trying to do it with a self-sustainable strategy. They don't quite match, but I'd rather we do it slowly than do a 1982.

[downendcity]

30 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

...so...the question that needs asking and answering behind closed doors at Ashton Gate is "why did we sign Lee Tomlin in the first place"? 

The answer is the same one that pretty well every City fan ( if they are honest) would endorse. After his successful loan spell, there would have been a riot on here had we NOT signed him. It was a no brainer decision, as Tomlin was instrumental in helping us escape relegtion.

As so often is the case, with the benefit of hindsight everyone now becomes an expert in stating the bloody obvious, but how many fans thought that Tomlin's signing was a bad decision at the time?

 

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Me three.

re naivety / arrogance, we are playing catch-up in a world of stupid £s, and trying to do it with a self-sustainable strategy. They don't quite match, but I'd rather we do it slowly than do a 1982.

The problem I have...as I slowly age and 1982 fades further and further into the distance...is with City constantly needing to learn the same lessons. A self-sustaining strategy in the current footballing world of stupid £s is, I feel, more likely to be delivered by experienced old hands who know what they are doing because they have done it before. That's not the City approach under SL. I have limited faith in LJ and MA, the Tammy loan is a positive, the rest all a bit of a mess...or the jury is out. The whole set-up reeks of "unproven". Let's hope that there are either some gems still to be uncovered or that the break has revitalised the current squad.

[Red Exile]

5 minutes ago, downendcity said:

The answer is the same one that pretty well every City fan ( if they are honest) would endorse. After his successful loan spell, there would have been a riot on here had we NOT signed him. It was a no brainer decision as Tomlin was instrumental in helping us except relegtion.

As so often is the case, with the benefit of hindsight everyone now becomes an expert in stating the bloody obvious, but how many fans thought that Tomlin's signing was a bad decision at the time?

 

Oh, I'd have signed him on the basis of those wonderful goals at Fulham and against Huddersfield...I was delighted, But how many fans had the responsibility for signing him, or doing the oft-mentioned "due diligence"?...none of us. All we knew was that he had it in him...it wasn't our job to get it out of him...that was down to the management...and they failed.

[Jack Dawe]

10 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

 

I agree with both of you, but if he's allegedly disruptive, doesn't fit into plans, only delivers occasionally and no one he ever plays for can manage him...which seems to be the consensus on here now he's left...how come MA and LJ didn't spot that before they put a contract in front of him? I'm not suggesting that that is a question that will ever be answered! Signing Lee Tomlin now looks like a terrible bit of business.

They did spot, it RE. Tomlin's difficult reputation was hinted at, alluded to, in media interviews given at the time he signed last summer. LJ was quoted saying he would need keeping an eye on, words to that affect. They were well aware what they were taking on. A quick google search will reveal enough to know that Tomlin is no "model pro."

Last summer, there was a lot of confidence about LJ, see an interview he gave to the guardian in which he pinpoints "emotional intelligence" as separating the "men from the boys" amongst football coaches (cringingly laughable now, this) and of course his Europa League prediction. He seemed to get rather carried away with the run of form at the end of that season. He couldn't have believed it was all down to him, could he?

 

[Jack Dawe]

11 minutes ago, downendcity said:

The answer is the same one that pretty well every City fan ( if they are honest) would endorse. After his successful loan spell, there would have been a riot on here had we NOT signed him. It was a no brainer decision, as Tomlin was instrumental in helping us escape relegtion.

As so often is the case, with the benefit of hindsight everyone now becomes an expert in stating the bloody obvious, but how many fans thought that Tomlin's signing was a bad decision at the time?

 

But we are "uninformed," we make "uninformed decisions" about the club, and so all of football, as SL took the trouble to point out to us last March. 

Johnson thought he had the "emotional intelligence" to handle a difficult player like Tomlin; he found out he was wrong, at least in this case.

 

 

[Richard Head]

2 hours ago, paulcityfan said:

Nooo.  You've either got it or you haven't. Age has FA to do with it

I was relating age to experience. The person who never made a mistake never made anything. I think we'll agree to differ on this one!

[Phileas Fogg]

19 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

They did spot, it RE. Tomlin's difficult reputation was hinted at, alluded to, in media interviews given at the time he signed last summer. LJ was quoted saying he would need keeping an eye on, words to that affect. They were well aware what they were taking on. A quick google search will reveal enough to know that Tomlin is no "model pro."

Last summer, there was a lot of confidence about LJ, see an interview he gave to the guardian in which he pinpoints "emotional intelligence" as separating the "men from the boys" amongst football coaches (cringingly laughable now, this) and of course his Europa League prediction. He seemed to get rather carried away with the run of form at the end of that season. He couldn't have believed it was all down to him, could he?

 

LJ made a lot of mistakes last season but I think it's a bit unfair people keep picking up on this.

If I remember rightly, and correct me if I'm wrong, it was a panel thing with Darrell Clarke where Clarke said something along the lines of 'in 5 years I hope we have a new training ground' to which LJ answered the same question with 'I want to be in the Europa League.'

To me, it was an attempt to jokingly display the difference in ambition between the two clubs rather than a 'we'll be in the Europa League in 5 seasons' prediction.

I think it was intended to be humorous like Cotterill's 'rag tag rovers' comment when he was here.   

[Jack Dawe]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

LJ made a lot of mistakes last season but I think it's a bit unfair people keep picking up on this.

If I remember rightly, and correct me if I'm wrong, it was a panel thing with Darrell Clarke where Clarke said something along the lines of 'in 5 years I hope we have a new training ground' to which LJ answered the same question with 'I want to be in the Europa League.'

To me, it was an attempt to jokingly display the difference in ambition between the two clubs rather than a 'we'll be in the Europa League in 5 seasons' prediction.

I think it was intended to be humorous like Cotterill's 'rag tag rovers' comment when he was here.   

To me, it's an example of his soaring, sky-high self-confidence and belief. Like his "I can handle Tomlin" signing. That comment will mean different things to different people though, certainly.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Jack Dawe said:

To me, it's an example of his soaring, sky-high self-confidence and belief. Like his "I can handle Tomlin" signing. That comment will mean different things to different people though, certainly.

I think it depends on the context, in the context he said it (if i'm right about that) it was intended as a bit of a joke - probably with a grain of truth.

The full comment is here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36962717

Johnson said City aim to "fast-track" efforts to emulate Swansea and Stoke, who have both featured in Europe's second-tier competition in recent years.

"We'll give it a right good go, that's for sure," said Johnson at Tuesday's BBC Radio Bristol & BBC Somerset sports forum.

"I believe it as well. I believe it is putting pressure on everybody at the club and we can deal with that pressure.

"Yes it will be very, very difficult, but why not? We're ready to go. Bristol is a fantastic city.

"I love the city, and the club, to bits. It's an amazing new stadium that will only get better as well."

To me, it doesn't seem that outrageous a comment when put in the context of the full quote. He's just revealing our ultimate aim. I don't think emulating Swansea/Stoke is that unrealistic, but the rest of the jigsaw needs to fit together first.

[Monkeh]

12 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

LJ made a lot of mistakes last season but I think it's a bit unfair people keep picking up on this.

If I remember rightly, and correct me if I'm wrong, it was a panel thing with Darrell Clarke where Clarke said something along the lines of 'in 5 years I hope we have a new training ground' to which LJ answered the same question with 'I want to be in the Europa League.'

To me, it was an attempt to jokingly display the difference in ambition between the two clubs rather than a 'we'll be in the Europa League in 5 seasons' prediction.

I think it was intended to be humorous like Cotterill's 'rag tag rovers' comment when he was here.   

so did flint, so did pack so did tammy, so did fielding, so did RoD etc etc

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Monkeh said:

so did flint, so did pack so did tammy, so did fielding, so did RoD etc etc

???

[Monkeh]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

???

make lots of mistakes last season, but its only johnson who is being singled out

[Oops]

31 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Oh, I'd have signed him on the basis of those wonderful goals at Fulham and against Huddersfield...I was delighted, But how many fans had the responsibility for signing him, or doing the oft-mentioned "due diligence"?...none of us. All we knew was that he had it in him...it wasn't our job to get it out of him...that was down to the management...and they failed.

Tomlin failed himself I'm afraid. If he'd put half as much effort into scoring and creating goals as he did arguing with officials and collecting 10 bookings he wouldn't have had a problem.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

make lots of mistakes last season, but its only johnson who is being singled out

You need to read what people are actually writing, I wasn't singling Johnson out at all. Pack, Abraham, O'Donnell and Flint aren't relevant to the point being discussed.