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Transfer Policy Success or failure


rogerf

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Big Money signings under Lee Johnson

Lee Tomlin - Hörður Magnússon - Gustav Engvall - Callum O’Dowda - Taylor Moore

 Regulars under Steve Cotterill and still in the First Team

Frank Fielding – Joe Bryan – Aden Flint – Korey Smith – Marlon Pack

 

What does this say about our transfer policy and making sure players are the right fit for the club and have the right DNA etc. etc.

How many of our big money signings in the last year have improved the team?

We still seem to be reliant on the core of our promotion squad.

Our big money signings have not really had significant impact when you consider the financial outlay.

None of the big money signings have become automatic selections every game and some have had little or no Impact. 

Some of these signings seem to have been completely frozen out, Hörður Magnússon - Gustav Engvall - Taylor Moore and of course Lee Tomlin has now gone.

What can we really expect from Famara Diedhiou will he follow the same pattern?

I am not one of Lee Johnson’s biggest fans but I have been patient in the hope that he will learn and things will improve, but when you look at the success of his signings

I am worried that we may be heading for another relegation fight that we may not win this time.  

 

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We have spent like there's no tomorrow under Johnson. And whereas the signing of Engvall looks to be nothing short of a joke, it's probably too early to judge O'Dowda and Moore. Magnússon looked half decent too. 

So Engvall & Tomlin pretty poor. The rest, we'll judge after this season. 

I wonder where we'd be with Maguire & Gray. 

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Ages of the 'Big Money signings':

Tomlin - 28

Magnússon - 24

Engvall - 21

O'Dowda - 22

Moore - 20

So these players were clearly signed, with the exception of Tomlin, with the future in mind as well as the present. I feel this topic is best revisited in another season or two, it's a little premature in my opinion. I do get where you're coming from, though.

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7 minutes ago, Distortia said:

Ages of the 'Big Money signings':

Tomlin - 28

Magnússon - 24

Engvall - 21

O'Dowda - 22

Moore - 20

So these players were clearly signed, with the exception of Tomlin, with the future in mind as well as the present. I feel this topic is best revisited in another season or two, it's a little premature in my opinion. I do get where you're coming from, though.

I agree the jury is still out on the young players though it remains to be seen if Đurić and Hegeler were good calls, if the former is ever fit.

And personally I'm glad a core of the Cotts team remain as there was no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. In a way they represent the so-called DNA and the others would do well to follow their example.

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13 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

We have spent like there's no tomorrow under Johnson. And whereas the signing of Engvall looks to be nothing short of a joke, it's probably too early to judge O'Dowda and Moore. Magnússon looked half decent too. 

So Engvall & Tomlin pretty poor. The rest, we'll judge after this season. 

I wonder where we'd be with Maguire & Gray. 

About the same position as both would of been sold

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Just now, chinapig said:

I agree the jury is still out on the young players though it remains to be seen if Đurić and Hegeler were good calls, if the former is ever fit.

And personally I'm glad a core of the Cotts team remain as there was no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. In a way they represent the so-called DNA and the others would do well to follow their example.

Oh you mean the team that had us on course for relegation?

they weren't strong enough as a unit for the championship 

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12 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Oh you mean the team that had us on course for relegation?

they weren't strong enough as a unit for the championship 

There was nothing wrong with their attitude, they never stopped fighting. It is that I want them to pass on to the youngsters. To that extent I would be ok for them to start the first game, unless we sign replacements who are clearly better.

There was a problem with the rigid formation and tactics and failure to strengthen the squad. Since then we have made an awful lot of signings, arguably too many, in an attempt to catch up yet LJ clearly still trusts the core he inherited. I think that continuity has some value.

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seems that I must have got old without getting wise.If I was as clever as all those who can spot all the talent the club is missing or see all the faults that they do in those we have signed then I would be this countries op manager.

I just wish people would stop thowing their opinions out as facts

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1 hour ago, rogerf said:

Big Money signings under Lee Johnson

Lee Tomlin - Hörður Magnússon - Gustav Engvall - Callum O’Dowda - Taylor Moore

 Regulars under Steve Cotterill and still in the First Team

Frank Fielding – Joe Bryan – Aden Flint – Korey Smith – Marlon Pack

 

What does this say about our transfer policy and making sure players are the right fit for the club and have the right DNA etc. etc.

How many of our big money signings in the last year have improved the team?

We still seem to be reliant on the core of our promotion squad.

Our big money signings have not really had significant impact when you consider the financial outlay.

None of the big money signings have become automatic selections every game and some have had little or no Impact. 

Some of these signings seem to have been completely frozen out, Hörður Magnússon - Gustav Engvall - Taylor Moore and of course Lee Tomlin has now gone.

What can we really expect from Famara Diedhiou will he follow the same pattern?

I am not one of Lee Johnson’s biggest fans but I have been patient in the hope that he will learn and things will improve, but when you look at the success of his signings

I am worried that we may be heading for another relegation fight that we may not win this time.  

 

Classic OTIB post:" I'm not one of Lee Johnson's biggest fans"  " I am worried " etc.

No mention of youth signings or Matt Taylor or the inspired amazing season long loan signing last season or the fact that Tomlin was sold at no great loss after a poor season. Players who have  had injury issues or have had to adapt to a foreign country, language and different league and are still developing.

We have no idea as to who will prove to be the core of our team this coming season but as for big money- who does it matter to most because it is Steve's money not ours and thank the lord he has plenty of it.

Meanwhile, we remain in the Championship.

 

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1 hour ago, rogerf said:

Big Money signings under Lee Johnson

Lee Tomlin - Hörður Magnússon - Gustav Engvall - Callum O’Dowda - Taylor Moore

 Regulars under Steve Cotterill and still in the First Team

Frank Fielding – Joe Bryan – Aden Flint – Korey Smith – Marlon Pack

I'm surprised you've ignored Kodjia there, he balances the books somewhat.

Also the remarkable loan signing of Abraham and the equally remarkable loan signing of Matthews are worth considering.

The change in strategy of signing younger players is welcome IMO, because it's less likely to result in very expensive failures and more likely to make the transfer policy sustainable.

The younger players need to be given time on the pitch to develop and we probably had too many players come in last season in one go.

Whether we're getting the right ones and giving them that chance remains to be seen.  We will have a better idea after Xmas.

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2 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Classic OTIB post:" I'm not one of Lee Johnson's biggest fans"  " I am worried " etc.

No mention of youth signings or Matt Taylor or the inspired amazing season long loan signing last season or the fact that Tomlin was sold at no great loss after a poor season. Players who have  had injury issues or have had to adapt to a foreign country, language and different league and are still developing.

We have no idea as to who will prove to be the core of our team this coming season but as for big money- who does it matter to most because it is Steve's money not ours and thank the lord he has plenty of it.

Meanwhile, we remain in the Championship.

 

I don't think my post was in anyway being critical, I was interested in the views of others.

Some people who responded make some very good points about maybe needing to wait another season before we can truly assess the success of failure of the transfers customer ages of some.

I realise other signings and loans have had varying degrees of success but my concern was with the big money signings.

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It will take a few years for our transfer policy to really be judged, key factor is giving the youngsters game time at City, which means being patient and accepting that they will make mistakes. Once that starts happening, it encourages better younger players to join City, as they see that there is a good route for progression to the first team.

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2 hours ago, generation1 said:

seems that I must have got old without getting wise.If I was as clever as all those who can spot all the talent the club is missing or see all the faults that they do in those we have signed then I would be this countries op manager.

I just wish people would stop thowing their opinions out as facts

Really sorry to pick on your post. My opinions are fact but that doesn't mean they are right.

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So you've picked 5 signings that suit your agenda  ("I am not one of Lee Johnson's biggest fans") and 5 players who have played under both Cotts and LJ and you're trying to achieve what exactly? If you scratch the surface of all mangers you'll find players who haven't worked out so not sure what point you are trying to make?

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4 hours ago, chinapig said:

There was nothing wrong with their attitude, they never stopped fighting. It is that I want them to pass on to the youngsters. To that extent I would be ok for them to start the first game, unless we sign replacements who are clearly better.

There was a problem with the rigid formation and tactics and failure to strengthen the squad. Since then we have made an awful lot of signings, arguably too many, in an attempt to catch up yet LJ clearly still trusts the core he inherited. I think that continuity has some value.

Not forgetting Mark Ashton was the person working for the club in a consultancy role when we brought in those players that waltzed League 1

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3 hours ago, rogerf said:

I don't think my post was in anyway being critical, I was interested in the views of others.

Some people who responded make some very good points about maybe needing to wait another season before we can truly assess the success of failure of the transfers customer ages of some.

I realise other signings and loans have had varying degrees of success but my concern was with the big money signings.

Why?

It's not your money - it's not our money.

If your concern is with signings in general then o.k.- fair point because we haven't got to the  Prem and that must be what it's all about?But if it's purely about how much money we spend on any one player- I just need to understand why you may have a problem with this when it's not your/our money.

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3 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Why?

It's not your money - it's not our money.

If your concern is with signings in general then o.k.- fair point because we haven't got to the  Prem and that must be what it's all about?But if it's purely about how much money we spend on any one player- I just need to understand why you may have a problem with this when it's not your/our money.

I think this is the problem our money is no longer the deciding factor.

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Think we were too focused on one part of the recruitment strategy which was age. 4-5 under 21 years of age last summer expected to contribute some to the first team but reality was they weren't ready for 6 months minimum. That hurt us a bit. We needed more young players(u25) with good senior experience. Paterson, Magnússon, Wright and now Diedhiou are all good examples of what we should've focused on last summer and sprinkled in a Taylor Moore or an engvall. Think they've realised that now. That it's ok to want to make young players better and reap the rewards but the mix needs to be correct. It's coming together a bit now imo. For all last seasons failures, I think it'll make this season a bit sweeter as the younger lads step into bigger roles. Expecting big years from O'Dowda and Brownhill in particular from the young group. 

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31 minutes ago, reddoh said:

I think this is the problem our money is no longer the deciding factor.

I know it's not my money but it does bother me a bit we feel we have to spend 1.5-2m on a good prospect. What did Barnsley pay for Mowett? Good age, experience at the level and went for peanuts. What did Preston spend on Barkhuizen? Lower league gem that they could afford to play as they were in a good position cost 150k. Now looks like we may be looking more that way with Vassell but my point remains. Think we overlook some simple ones while we scout the names. 

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Just now, JoeAman08 said:

I know it's not my money but it does bother me a bit we feel we have to spend 1.5-2m on a good prospect. What did Barnsley pay for Mowett? Good age, experience at the level and went for peanuts. What did Preston spend on Barkhuizen? Lower league gem that they could afford to play as they were in a good position cost 150k. Now looks like we may be looking more that way with Vassell but my point remains. Think we overlook some simple ones while we scout the names. 

If my memory serves correct MA put together the team that won league one (except for wilbs) I will wait and see.

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17 minutes ago, reddoh said:

I think this is the problem our money is no longer the deciding factor.

In which case I fail to understand your OP. I'm genuinely not having a dig , I just don't get why you single out 'big money' signings. Our biggest in the last few years are Kodjia and Tomlin at £5million which we got back £17.9 million and a few goals. Our latest at £5million - even for me is not yet awful and I'd say that what we lose on the Engvall - we gain on the O'Dowda.  Paterson doesn't look expensive  whilst Taylor will be a bargain even if he never makes the first team again. I like the inexpensive Brownhill too. 

 

I find it very difficult to understand the undercurrent of veiled dissatisfaction about our signings. In  the past 8 months of reading on OTIB &  from 'band leader' BBSB is that is  Lee Johnson and Mark Ashton are shit and everything they do is shit and I just can't agree.

Which, of course, makes me an uber happy clapper fan.

 

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1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

In which case I fail to understand your OP. I'm genuinely not having a dig , I just don't get why you single out 'big money' signings. Our biggest in the last few years are Kodjia and Tomlin at £5million which we got back £17.9 million and a few goals. Our latest at £5million - even for me is not yet awful and I'd say that what we lose on the Engvall - we gain on the O'Dowda.  Paterson doesn't look expensive  whilst Taylor will be a bargain even if he never makes the first team again. I like the inexpensive Brownhill too. 

 

I find it very difficult to understand the undercurrent of veiled dissatisfaction about our signings. In  the past 8 months of reading on OTIB &  from 'band leader' BBSB is that is  Lee Johnson and Mark Ashton are shit and everything they do is shit and I just can't agree.

Which, of course, makes me an uber happy clapper fan.

 

Wow

A Band Leader

Thanks, hadn't realised that  :thumbsup::laughcont:

Whose in the band ?

Hilarious :laughcont:

 

Delighted you are over you're sulk and back posting 

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6 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Think we were too focused on one part of the recruitment strategy which was age. 4-5 under 21 years of age last summer expected to contribute some to the first team but reality was they weren't ready for 6 months minimum. That hurt us a bit. We needed more young players(u25) with good senior experience. Paterson, Magnússon, Wright and now Diedhiou are all good examples of what we should've focused on last summer and sprinkled in a Taylor Moore or an engvall. Think they've realised that now. That it's ok to want to make young players better and reap the rewards but the mix needs to be correct. It's coming together a bit now imo. For all last seasons failures, I think it'll make this season a bit sweeter as the younger lads step into bigger roles. Expecting big years from O'Dowda and Brownhill in particular from the young group. 

I think it's also down to the players on our list being available.

 Some of the youngsters we signed last year may have not exactly been targeted for this time but were doable . Older players on the same wish list may not have been interested in a move or the deal wasn't good for the club .

 I believe our recruitment and sales of players has never been better .

Time , of course , will tell .

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I don't really get where the OP is coming from.

To me the current transfer strategy makes good sense. Signing players under 25, improving and developing them with a first team place in mind. If they don't make it then they move on with no serious loss of revenue. 

What some fans don't seem to grasp is that throwing money at the squad is an easy remedy which doesn't always work out but by signing  a number of promising players some of them will become first team regulars. O'Dowda and Brownhill are two examples of that.

I can't see the transfer strategy changing unless City make it to the Promised Land and then with huge amount of cash that will generate we'd see several marquee signings in an effort to stay there.

 

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14 hours ago, rogerf said:

Big Money signings under Lee Johnson

Lee Tomlin - Hörður Magnússon - Gustav Engvall - Callum O’Dowda - Taylor Moore

 

Only one has departed the club so far, we can't even write off Engval yet.

14 hours ago, rogerf said:

 Regulars under Steve Cotterill and still in the First Team

Frank Fielding – Joe Bryan – Aden Flint – Korey Smith – Marlon Pack

 

He only signed one of those. Interestingly, 3 of them were signed by SO'D. Helps display the point that sometimes things need to be judged on the long term goal not a short term feeling.

14 hours ago, rogerf said:

 

What does this say about our transfer policy and making sure players are the right fit for the club and have the right DNA etc. etc.

How many of our big money signings in the last year have improved the team?

Not much - many of them are still a work-in-progress. The ones you've selectively highlighted (apart from Tomlin) are all young players.

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9 hours ago, reddoh said:

If my memory serves correct MA put together the team that won league one (except for wilbs) I will wait and see.

I thought SL said he had some involvement in the year before that (summer after relegation), and not with SC?

Mainly sticks in my memory because I thought how convenient as soon as Cotts left that Ashton was publicly introduced. Perhaps Cotts didn't want any help from MA which also added to the reasons to get rid. 

EDIT - Yes, he joined Oxford as CEO in early 2014. So was not present in the summer of 2014 before the double. 

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12 hours ago, arrytheb said:

So you've picked 5 signings that suit your agenda  ("I am not one of Lee Johnson's biggest fans") and 5 players who have played under both Cotts and LJ and you're trying to achieve what exactly? If you scratch the surface of all mangers you'll find players who haven't worked out so not sure what point you are trying to make?

I don't have an agenda, read my post I am just interested in other peoples views on the success or failure of the transfers as they see it.

I myself am not sure at this stage either way.

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