old_eastender Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 Another romp today, I know we have FC Twente to come, but that is really the only testing friendly. No time now, but in general I do wish we arranged some stiffer games, surprised we don't try and get games against the local'ish PL clubs; Swansea, Southampton, Brighton, Borunemouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 minute ago, old_eastender said: Another romp today, I know we have FC Twente to come, but that is really the only testing friendly. No time now, but in general I do wish we arranged some stiffer games, surprised we don't try and get games against the local'ish PL clubs; Swansea, Southampton, Brighton, Borunemouth. For Prem clubs friendlies have become just another money making exercise so we are much less likely to have the chance to get fixtures these days. Mind you I can remember beating Leicester and Southampton well in pre-season and then fighting relegation so the value may be overstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 It's not about testing for the billionth time friendlys are just about fitness and trying tactics bedding players that's it results mean nothing opposing teams mean nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 23 minutes ago, old_eastender said: Another romp today, I know we have FC Twente to come, but that is really the only testing friendly. No time now, but in general I do wish we arranged some stiffer games, surprised we don't try and get games against the local'ish PL clubs; Swansea, Southampton, Brighton, Borunemouth. We would get stuffed if we played any of them in a friendly,lee isn't daft he doesn't want his position as manager under question again before the seasons even started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, Monkeh said: It's not about testing for the billionth time friendlys are just about fitness and trying tactics bedding players that's it results mean nothing opposing teams mean nothing Spot on. Why oh why do some fans think that stronger opposition is necessary in friendlies? It's not as if neither team play anything like at a competitive level. They're warm up games and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 40 minutes ago, old_eastender said: Another romp today, I know we have FC Twente to come, but that is really the only testing friendly. No time now, but in general I do wish we arranged some stiffer games, surprised we don't try and get games against the local'ish PL clubs; Swansea, Southampton, Brighton, Borunemouth. Worth bearing in mind also that a Prem club would demand a hefty fee. Then probably field a mixture of reserves and kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 1 hour ago, chinapig said: Worth bearing in mind also that a Prem club would demand a hefty fee. Then probably field a mixture of reserves and kids. Indeed. Unless you're playing one of the real heavyweights, which is unlikely as they nearly always all go abroad, it isn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Brent Posted July 22, 2017 Report Share Posted July 22, 2017 It's not like we haven't played championship clubs before. We know what to expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Robbored said: Why oh why do some fans think that stronger opposition is necessary in friendlies? It's not as if neither team play anything like at a competitive level. They're warm up games and nothing more. Why oh why oh why oh why oh why................ Us fans aren't as clever as you are Robbo so we use boring things like data to inform our thinking. If just about all the teams in our division are playing serious professional teams, that should be a clue as to what the majority considers proper preparation. Hull beat Benfica in Portugal. Preston drew with Newcastle. Brentford drew with Southampton. Millwall, Sunderland, Bolton, Middlesboro, Ipswich, Forest, Birmingham, Wolves all played professional English league teams. QPR, Reading, Derby played ex-Bundesliga teams. etc etc As far as I can tell the team we played is amateur, was founded in 2009 and played in the regional leagues in Spain (super non-league). I know all the teams bar Sunderland playing English league clubs just lost, but they will have learned FAR more from their weaknesses today, than we have by confirming the utterly unsurprising and irrelevant lesson that we have assembled a team that can comfortably beat a bunch of Spanish part-time bar workers comfortably. The fact people like you, who have been around the block, are comfortable with this, is shocking to me, but perhaps you are mellowing towards the Johnson family. For me training is where you "warm up", these games are to confirm the required standard has been attained and flush out the weaknesses before the season starts. As per, we've done no such thing. As others have said, it all fits the cotton wool which has been wrapped around Johnson junior since he failed spectacularly last season and was rescued by the players pulling together for that final run of unchanged sides last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Controller Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Olé said: As per, we've done no such thing. As others have said, it all fits the cotton wool which has been wrapped around Johnson junior since he failed spectacularly last season and was rescued by the players pulling together for that final run of unchanged sides last season. It appears your giving Johnson all of the blame for the bad run and none of the credit for the good? Have I misinterpreted? Apologies for derailing the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Olé said: Us fans aren't as clever as you are Robbo so we use boring things like data to inform our thinking. The fact people like you, who have been around the block, are comfortable with this, is shocking to me, but perhaps you are mellowing towards the Johnson family. For me training is where you "warm up", these games are to confirm the required standard has been attained and flush out the weaknesses before the season starts. As per, we've done no such thing. As others have said, it all fits the cotton wool which has been wrapped around Johnson junior since he failed spectacularly last season and was rescued by the players pulling together for that final run of unchanged sides last season. So it's all LJs fault but the players "pulling together" saved us? ............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 If it was just about fitness, as some point out, then why not save the risk of injury and just play amongst ourselves? The fact is we are playing teams with no quality at all, so how the hell are we supposed to determine how well we are doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Raging_Robin said: Let's not change the topic. Let's not turn this into another LJ thread. I actually couldn't agree more with Olé. To quote you Robbo, I "can't believe some fans" actually think playing against higher opposition isn't needed! The players are professional athletes. All this "just" for fitness is rubbish. They literally have a few weeks off from the end of the season until training starts. Unfit do you think someone will get in 4 weeks? Undoubtedly you will lose some fitness, but it's like people think they're returning after a few weeks in complete bits. Also, how much more fitness are you going to get if you aren't putting that much effort in against these awful sides? Surely you gain more fitness playing higher opposition as you aren't likely to be holding possession of the ball so much. You have to press and fight to get the ball. That's what will help you get "match fit and sharp". Not a casual knock about versus some Spanish waiters. So really you aren't gaining anymore fitness than you would an internal game and you certainly aren't learning about the strengths and weaknesses of the squad. So, if you think preparing for a season in one of the hardest league in the world is simply about fitness, I think you're the one who is mistaken Robbo. Do you suppose that LJ and his coaching staff don't know how to prepare a pre-season but us fans do? LJ and McAllister are both former professional footballers who will have experienced many pre seasons of their own and know full well what works. The coaches will already know what the strengths and weaknesses of the squad are and will know that no player gets fully "match fit" until a few matches into the season when the Saturday/Tuesday cycle starts but will get the squad as fit and organised as is possible - that is what pre season is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 28 minutes ago, Raging_Robin said: I think they know what they're doing, I just think they can do it better. Just my opinion. Do you have all your coaching badges attained after your professional football career ended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 Whilst I agree that in terms of results you can largely ignore friendlies and write it off as being about nothing other than 'fitness and working on tactics' I don't see how that argument stacks up when defending playing against massively inferior opposition. How does playing a game in which you're camped in the opposition half as they (try to) defend on the edge of the box and you just knock the ball about whilst I expect having a good 70% possession at largely not much more than walking pace prepare you for the league season? Although I quite enjoyed the Ajax game a few seasons ago I remember thinking the whole thing was all a bit pointless as it was such a mismatch, but hey at least chasing their shadows all night would have helped with fitness levels. As for the argument that they're for trying different things out tactically, don't make me laugh. Nobody can surely suggest we can possibly learn anything from this opposition. I like Bobby Reid and have supported him numerous times on this forum until getting incredibly bored repeating myself, but none of us can surely draw any conclusions from the goals he has scored in these games? Similarly I'm sure Hegeler looks a million dollars at centre half when not having to do any defending, but having perfect opportunity to show his class on the ball. Surely we have all watched enough England walkovers in qualifying games to realise the whole thing is utterly pointless when we rock up at the tournament and oh look, we're still not good enough. As I say I agree that the results are largely irrelevant , but surely you need to be playing games that serve the purpose of preparing you for the season? I don't particularly share others desire for some sort of 'marquee' friendly, but for example if we had played decent League 1 teams like Walsall or Oxford and lost I would have in no way been joining in with the inevitable melt down that would have followed on this forum, but surely a competitive game such as that would have been much more of a benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Robbored said: Do you have all your coaching badges attained after your professional football career ended? Is the setting up of friendlies part of EUFA A or B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 15 minutes ago, Robbored said: Do you have all your coaching badges attained after your professional football career ended? Gary Johnson has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Chris_Brown said: It appears your giving Johnson all of the blame for the bad run and none of the credit for the good? Have I misinterpreted? Apologies for derailing the thread. 1 hour ago, Robbored said: So it's all LJs fault but the players "pulling together" saved us? ............... The apologies are mine, I'm the one who has derailed the thread with my dig at LJ (time of my post probably a clue - pub lock-in) but having steadfastly avoided any of his interviews for months I accidentally clicked on his post-match interview from yesterday and found myself fully triggered again, having watched the highlights and looked into the quality of the opponents. I've no issue with his self-belief but I was put in mind of the spin last season when the required standard wasn't being reached. Perhaps I should have left the LJ bit out. My post was quite a simple one, if something like 17 of the teams in our division are playing professional teams of a higher standard two weeks before the season starts, and we are playing an amateur team, who do you think has the right approach? Are we so innovative that we've struck upon a fitness only requirement no one else has, or would it be an idea, for example, to know whether Bobby Reid upfront actually works against a serious team? On the points above, not to divert into an LJ thread (although I've not engaged on that point all summer while everything else has been spinning his reputation back into credit), we can all have our own opinions, but I didn't even realise I was making a controversial point! I'm not for a minute excusing the players from the bad run, but from what I saw at matches after Preston, the manager left well alone of the team, who played with a freedom, shape and confidence he had largely throttled prior to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 By the way, if people think I was being unfair, or nasty, here's the bit of personal insight the was driving my opinion. I take an interest in Portuguese and Spanish leagues as I grew up there. The first football team I ever saw just round the corner from where I lived (picture of current team bus below as reference to standard) plays at more or less the same level as the team we played yesterday. If you'd told me City, with £20m+ in players, would be playing a team of that standard I would have laughed. The standard of the team we played yesterday is unbelievably bad. In Portugal and Spain the quality falls away very quickly as you drop down the divisions. I was amazed to see that two weeks before the season we could be playing a team of such amateurs. The club spun this as a newly promoted Spanish third division side. It's not. The third division in Spain is the fourth division (P, 2, 2B, 3) AND it is a regional league with 18 divisions. This team is in a local Tenerife league of the 4th division. Even a bit of logical maths says if you're new to one of 18 4th division leagues comprising nearly 400 teams, your standard in a vertical league is Division 21 or 22. Not one other team in our division is playing such amateurs. What on earth were we trying to learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjam!n Ultra Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 @Monkeh Fitness? Yes. Tactics? What have we actually learnt about tactics from playing BMF, Guernsey, Spanish non league team etc? Anything actually 'learnt' is wholly misrepresented. Hence why LJ is now turning to Reid as a striker, despite booting him out last season for his awful composure in front of goal. So far all we know is we can hammer builders and soon to be non-league Yeovil but our U23s won't beat a a conference team. If Twente don't bring a decent team over then our first test will be Barnsley in the league and then we'll actually start learning what is working and what isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Raging_Robin said: Have you? So that's it then, I can never have an option. So someone who played at a decent standard, albeit only a few years with Bath, I think I can have my own opinion. I have no coaching qualifications but like you I played to decent level in the Western League as was - no idea what that level is called now but that doesn't qualify me to say how to plan a pre season at a professional football club. I happy to let those with professional qualifications and experience get on with it. We all have opinions on pretty much everything and are perfectly entitled to express them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 40 minutes ago, Robbored said: I have no coaching qualifications but like you I played to decent level in the Western League as was - no idea what that level is called now but that doesn't qualify me to say how to plan a pre season at a professional football club. I happy to let those with professional qualifications and experience get on with it. We all have opinions on pretty much everything and are perfectly entitled to express them. I won't be dropping my trousers but I do have coaching qualifications and would agree with posters opinions. Aerobic/Anaerobic fitness training can easily be done anywhere in the wet here as it is now, or on a jolly for getting sun on backs. The psychological and social benefits of the latter may outweigh the former. The fitness aspect of playing these games could be almost non existent to negative. Players will most likely do even less v poor opposition in a hot clime. Fitness is hardly gained from one or two games of ninety minutes in any case. Games are made up of walking, jogging, running, a tiny % of sprinting, moving sideways, being stood still = Physical fitness comes from training. Sharpness is another thing, its hard to make training football realistic as the game has so many variables and is chaotic, but the benefit for honing sharpness v a team of such a moderate standard is highly questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueredsupporter Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Olé said: By the way, if people think I was being unfair, or nasty, here's the bit of personal insight the was driving my opinion. I take an interest in Portuguese and Spanish leagues as I grew up there. The first football team I ever saw just round the corner from where I lived (picture of current team bus below as reference to standard) plays at more or less the same level as the team we played yesterday. If you'd told me City, with £20m+ in players, would be playing a team of that standard I would have laughed. The standard of the team we played yesterday is unbelievably bad. In Portugal and Spain the quality falls away very quickly as you drop down the divisions. I was amazed to see that two weeks before the season we could be playing a team of such amateurs. The club spun this as a newly promoted Spanish third division side. It's not. The third division in Spain is the fourth division (P, 2, 2B, 3) AND it is a regional league with 18 divisions. This team is in a local Tenerife league of the 4th division. Even a bit of logical maths says if you're new to one of 18 4th division leagues comprising nearly 400 teams, your standard in a vertical league is Division 21 or 22. Not one other team in our division is playing such amateurs. What on earth were we trying to learn? So City played something like a Briz??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 2 hours ago, BCFC Grim said: Gary Johnson has? He must have otherwise he would get employed as a manager in the pro game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Benjam!n Ultra said: @Monkeh Fitness? Yes. Tactics? What have we actually learnt about tactics from playing BMF, Guernsey, Spanish non league team etc? Anything actually 'learnt' is wholly misrepresented. Hence why LJ is now turning to Reid as a striker, despite booting him out last season for his awful composure in front of goal. So far all we know is we can hammer builders and soon to be non-league Yeovil but our U23s won't beat a a conference team. If Twente don't bring a decent team over then our first test will be Barnsley in the league and then we'll actually start learning what is working and what isn't. Friendly results are largely academic, we lost to WSM in the pre season of our double winning campaign. As for Bobby, if all these goals,albeit against mediocre opposition, are building his confidence, that can only be a good thing. We'll all find out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 5 hours ago, BCFC Grim said: If it was just about fitness, as some point out, then why not save the risk of injury and just play amongst ourselves? The fact is we are playing teams with no quality at all, so how the hell are we supposed to determine how well we are doing? I know were all a bit football starved this time of the season but its not about us finding out how we are doing, we will find this out over the season, what benifit is there in any of us knowing how we are doing? Im more interested in the management team knowing how the players are doing and they wont find this out in games against Man U, Chelsea, Swansea, Oxford or Cheltenham. The management team are probably working as close as they will all season with the players - they will know where they need the players to be from performances last season and progress in training. My personal opinion is pre season games are pretty worthless and are more about breaking up the monotony of training and having something to build towards rather than any testing of the players. Sometimes the players will do an hour of cardio before playing a pre season game and sometimes they wont - either way none of us will find out if that has happened or not so we will never be able to make a judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_eastender Posted July 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 Contrast to Barnsley, who yesterday played Huddersfield, and have Rochdale & Rotherham - both fancied to be top half League 1 - to come. I guess we will find out August 5th if they look sharper than us, lets hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 3 hours ago, old_eastender said: Contrast to Barnsley, who yesterday played Huddersfield, and have Rochdale & Rotherham - both fancied to be top half League 1 - to come. I guess we will find out August 5th if they look sharper than us, lets hope not. Oh yes, I see your point now. Why can't we have such a glamorous pre-season fixture list..?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: Oh yes, I see your point now. Why can't we have such a glamorous pre-season fixture list..?! Lot more glamorous than Yeovil reserves, Bath City, the Spanish version of Keynsham and Cheltenham Town. All shoud be walkovers and then Twente. One test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 4 hours ago, RedDave said: Spanish version of Keynsham Queynsjamon?!! Interesting topic to debate. As others have said, we'll find out soon enough. These days the are enough aid in terms of gps trackers etc to gauge actual fitness. Match fitness or sharpness is a whole other matter and that only come with games. That can be evident regardless of the opposition - how many early games in the League Cup have we not shown up for. Using them to try out formations makes sense in that you can see how our players interact with one another especially on the attack if the opposition is poor. However, to test the defence and tactics, I can't help but feel you need to be playing some sort of quality in terms of players and managers with some nouse to be able to counter tactic you are employing. All seems very arbitrary and depends how serious the opposition take it and what stage they are in terms of their preparation. A full strength Bath City team with some element of local pride at stake may be better preparation than a game against Southampton reserves. For me its a chance to see the new kit and get a first impression of any new signings. And a sense of anticipation that the real stuff is about to begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.