Gareth Thomas - Hate In Football (Merged)

[Maesknoll Red]

If there are any gay footballers, why haven't they been outed, I assume they have relationships, one night stands etc as do their hetrosexual team mates.  I find it hard to believe that all of their sexual partners have such high morals that they wouldn't sell the story to the tabloids or an online publisher, not sure of the going rate for kiss and tell, but if it involved a high profile name, I would assume it would be a tidy sum.

In this day and age, with the amount of celebrity culture on social media, the lack of control on said media, I am struggling to understand how not one has been outed, whether by a slip up, maliciously or for financial gain.

[MarcusX]

On 7/31/2017 at 09:27, Robbored said:

Abuse of faith,  colour and sexuality are sacrosanct in the eyes of the law and quite right to.

Taling the piss out of fat people, gingers, people with poor dress sense is not quite the same thing. Those people could do something about it...

How can people do something about being ginger? Hide it by dying their hair? that's like saying a gay person could avoid abuse by hiding their sexuality 

[Robbored]

Just now, MarcusX said:

How can people do something about being ginger? Hide it by dying their hair? that's like saying a gay person could avoid abuse by hiding their sexuality 

Don't be so ridiculous.

Im a ginger (although greying a bit now) and at any time I could have dyed my hair but not being a snowflake, it never crossed my mind. 

I know one homosexual guy who you would never ever guess was gay. i only know because another person told me. Whether he makes a conscious decision to hide it I don't know but personally I don't care.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

39 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I've not seen the programme, so I'm not aware of the examples that you refer to. 

Social media almost needs to be ignored. It's too unaccountable and full of trolls. That's not representative of how people behave in public. Even LJ apparently received "death threats" last season. I mean, really..?!

Also, what is it with Gareth Thomas reffering to his experiences of football? Wasn't he a Rugby player..? 

I do agree with one of the previous posters, that he strikes me as a bit of a fame whore. 

I do think you need to watch the programme to understand some of the comments on this thread.  Gareth Thomas spoke as a former professional sportsman, and presumably was asked to make the programme.  However, the attitude of fans and the PFA (in particular) was very worrying indeed.  Thomas himself was passionate (which you would expect) but always gave the people he was speaking to a fair chance to comment.

Sadly social media now dominates the planet.  That is why we have a nutjob as president of the most powerful county on earth, threatening us all with destruction. 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

24 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

If there are any gay footballers, why haven't they been outed, I assume they have relationships, one night stands etc as do their hetrosexual team mates.  I find it hard to believe that all of their sexual partners have such high morals that they wouldn't sell the story to the tabloids or an online publisher, not sure of the going rate for kiss and tell, but if it involved a high profile name, I would assume it would be a tidy sum.

In this day and age, with the amount of celebrity culture on social media, the lack of control on said media, I am struggling to understand how not one has been outed, whether by a slip up, maliciously or for financial gain.

I agree, little prospect of there being any gay footballers.  After all, they're all fashion designers, hairdressers or ballet dancers...

[BCFC Rich]

It was from an article I read a while ago, I remembered it being a survey from the various associations. Got a bit carried away on the 'professional footballers' part as the article is about all levels of the game.

 

265 million playing the game link

[The Gasbuster]

On 7/31/2017 at 09:27, Robbored said:

Abuse of faith,  colour and sexuality are sacrosanct in the eyes of the law and quite right to.

Taling the piss out of fat people, gingers, people with poor dress sense is not quite the same thing. Those people could do something about it...

Faith is a choice, unlike colour or sexuality.

[Maesknoll Red]

1 minute ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

And that's the whole point of why it is so important..

The statement by the poster above is lazy, cliched, homophobic and offensive as it's suggestive that sexuality is a difference maker.. Even if the post was dripping in irony and contained all the pastiche in the world,  that the same post wouldnt be made about some one who was straight, highlights what work needs to be done. 

 

Are things that cliched,  I have worked in Engineering for most of my working life and have never had a gay colleague (not that I knew anyway) the last company I worked for had quite a few gay staff and the majority worked in catering, again, none to the best of my knowledge in Engineering.  I know scaffolders, ground workers, builders and have drunk with them for many years, never come across any gays during my time with them, nor have they mentioned working with one - and I have no doubt they would have.  Yet whilst you say it's cliched, I can think of certain jobs or even aspects of hobbies that seem to have more than a fair share, so maybe the cliches have some truth in them.

[Eddie Hitler]

1 minute ago, The Gasbuster said:

Faith is a choice, unlike colour or sexuality.

Rachel Dolezal:

 

Now she's black

Look again and she's white

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said:

Faith is a choice, unlike colour or sexuality.

There are some faiths that if you are born into them your choice of abandoning that faith are minuscule.

Still a choice tho I guess................. 

[Maesknoll Red]

11 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Yes, they are. that cliched.   There is tonnes and tonnes of things, quick google will bring up lots of pay disparity stuff, that note that society will pigeon hole you as a result of being gay meaning that earning potential is limited specifically because of this intrinisic belief that gay people must do this that or the other, or that it's 'natural'

Of course it bloody isnt! Sexuality has no bearing on whatsoever what jobs you can or cant do..  and buying into a societal flaw about gay people must be stuck doing this or that is telling of the kinda things that gay people are trying to face..  You're gay, so you must be a ... Is insulting to the core,  You wouldnt say  you are straight so you must be a.. So why is one acceptable but the other is not?

The point wasn't whether it was acceptable or not, but that's how it is, not many women doing the Jobs I mention either, I wasn't insinuating it was right or wrong, people have to do whatever job they want, but it's not all cliched, when the facts fit.  Some of the  staff I mentioned working in catering have gone on to other roles, but certainly not within Engineering and I wouldn't say there would be any stigma if they did, Engineers are pretty accepting of anyone, who is worthy by ability working alongside them.

[BCFC Rich]

16 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

The point wasn't whether it was acceptable or not, but that's how it is, not many women doing the Jobs I mention either, I wasn't insinuating it was right or wrong, people have to do whatever job they want, but it's not all cliched, when the facts fit.  Some of the  staff I mentioned working in catering have gone on to other roles, but certainly not within Engineering and I wouldn't say there would be any stigma if they did, Engineers are pretty accepting of anyone, who is worthy by ability working alongside them.

3

I think sometimes (and this mirrors back to football too) it's the perception that really matters. You may not perceive there not being an issue with an engineer coming out as gay, but it only really matters what the gay engineer that wants to come out perceives. If their perception is that coming out will make work life harder, more abusive, or untenable then they are not going to come out. Even if your perception is correct. If someone else has come out it would make it easier for them to see what the reality of the situation would be. But it puts a lot of pressure on the 1st person to do that and in football, that person is also going to to get a lot of media attention and scrutiny. 

With regards to engineering, it seems from relatively recent studies that there are a lot of engineers not comfortable with coming out. link

edit:  on the article linked by RalphMilnesLeftFoot

[Maesknoll Red]

The penny won't drop, I have no interest in what people do or with whom.  When you work with people for a long time and socialise with them, they'd have to be pretty secretive and elusive to keep it hidden and in my experience, I have met very few people like that.  

There are more than a few flamboyant, camp blokes who play up to the stereo typing. - do they help the cause?

[Natchfever]

24 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

The penny won't drop, I have no interest in what people do or with whom.  When you work with people for a long time and socialise with them, they'd have to be pretty secretive and elusive to keep it hidden and in my experience, I have met very few people like that.  

There are more than a few flamboyant, camp blokes who play up to the stereo typing. - do they help the cause?

I;m not sure they do. because they aren't being themselves. likewise, spotting a tubby geezer in a gimp mask on Old Market Street during the Pride day to me anyway, is a bit naff, and I don;t think helps gay men or women live their lives.

Just my view.

[chipdawg]

50 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

The point wasn't whether it was acceptable or not, but that's how it is, not many women doing the Jobs I mention either, I wasn't insinuating it was right or wrong, people have to do whatever job they want, but it's not all cliched, when the facts fit.  Some of the  staff I mentioned working in catering have gone on to other roles, but certainly not within Engineering and I wouldn't say there would be any stigma if they did, Engineers are pretty accepting of anyone, who is worthy by ability working alongside them.

I worked at a small engineering firm in 2003 and one of the engineers there was gay. He was quite open about it at the yard, but would never reveal it when working on site as he didn't feel it'd go down well on a construction site. I actually know several guys and girls who are either in traditionally 'macho' jobs or from very working class backgrounds. Perhaps people were discouraged from entering professions such as engineering 'back in he day' but I don't think that's the case now

[Maesknoll Red]

4 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

The highlighted bit is the important bit. They are and do,  to the extent it drives them literally insane.. No one should have to. Period.

The only cause is equality, it's not that difficult to grasp? Assuming and this is a glib assumption, that you are heterosexual, and not in any minority, how many basic rights have you had to fight for since the turn of the millenium? None?

 LGBT have had to fight and claw and  whatever for even the basics like the ability to get married, legally have same pension rights and so forth and so on.  Discrimination is rife  as discussed above sexual preference will still affect your career prospects and potential earnings, because of the discrimination that is still clearly on show. It's something that is clearly not coming across, as the 'Well because I didnt see any gay people, must mean that that there mustnt be any in my profession, and gay people, they are always flamboyant and work in service sectors dont they?' type of assertion is something that is unfortunately sadly blinkered and reinforces the institutionalised issues that we have to face on a daily basis

 

What can I do, but say what my experience is, working in small teams means you tend to see pictures of wives, girlfriends, kids and if there was the slightest 'suspicion' (in quotes because I don't mean it in a derogatory way, but I can't think of another word) that anyone was gay, there would have been talk about it.  

Again, I haven't said they are all flamboyant and camp, but you didn't answer if those that are are reinforcing a stereotype.

Your glib assumption is right and whilst I haven't had to fight for the right to get married, any pension scheme I've ever been in has had the option to put partner as beneficiary, so another area I haven't seen any discrimination.  I have experience of discrimination, it's not so bad now, but in the 70's and 80's it was difficult travelling on my Irish passport, plenty of anti Irish feeling then and border controls were particularly enthusiastic, not allowed in many pubs just for being a biker and also, as many on here will have found, been discriminated against just for attending a football match.

[Maesknoll Red]

The sport I compete in is probably 99% (at least) male dominated.  There is one (sorry if I get this wrong) transgender M to F that takes part.  Not very popular with some, but that's a personality issue, nothing to do with her change.  But there is and I am sure will be for years, snide comments and talk behind her back and sometimes not so subtle - i.e. in earshot.  Banter fun and pure ignorance, not that I am exactly knowledgable myself.  She's never mentioned it, someone picked it up from a newspaper report for confirmation, although there was 'suspicion' (again, apologies, really can't think of another word to convey it) and speculation. I'm really not sure that you'd expect anything else in what is quite a closed world.

Change takes time to be accepted, down in sleepy Somerset and Dorset she'll be the only transgender many of them will have met, apart from Ladyboys on their trips to Thailand.  I really didn't know much myself until a couple of years back until I watched that comedy that was on, funny and informative, I forget the name of it.

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

 

3 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

The penny won't drop, I have no interest in what people do or with whom.  When you work with people for a long time and socialise with them, they'd have to be pretty secretive and elusive to keep it hidden and in my experience, I have met very few people like that.  

There are more than a few flamboyant, camp blokes who play up to the stereo typing. - do they help the cause?

Just on your first sentence: being gay is nothing to do with what you do.  It's about what you are.  if you are discriminated against because of what you are, then that is a big problem.  The mere fact that people regard gay people as different in the sense of deviating from the norm, which is to be straight, is the issue.

The campest bloke I ever interviewed for a job was married with two kids and straight as can be.  It takes all sorts.