Bar BS3 Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 How long before a proper/men's football team take a punt on this guy..? He's clearly got something in his management locker. I wonder what kind of club/offer would tempt him away from the England women's team..? Could he hack it in "real football"..? It would be interesting to see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I remember similar suggestions when England rugby won the World Cup. Clive Woodward is a top man manager, so must be a good shout to manage a football team. Southampton appointed him and found that he was awful, and he never managed again. I would suggest the same thing would happen with Sampson, as women's football is almost a different sport to League football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said: I remember similar suggestions when England rugby won the World Cup. Clive Woodward is a top man manager, so must be a good shout to manage a football team. Southampton appointed him and found that he was awful, and he never managed again. I would suggest the same thing would happen with Sampson, as women's football is almost a different sport to League football. I get your comparison, although at least Sampson is involved in the same sport, even if at a completely different level. I wonder where (physicality aside) the England women's football team would compare too in men's football..? Conference maybe, or is that being harsh on them..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I honestly believe it would be a division or two below that. If nothing else the standard of goalkeeping is parks football at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Didn't he take the England post from a job coaching in our Academy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 40 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: How long before a proper/men's football team take a punt on this guy..? He's clearly got something in his management locker. I wonder what kind of club/offer would tempt him away from the England women's team..? Could he hack it in "real football"..? It would be interesting to see! I'm sure he could "hack it" but probably he'd have to start in the lower leagues so why would he want to leave a job as England manager? No idea how his salary compares to Southgate but I'd guess it's very seriously lower. Maybe a PL club offered him the managers job with a far better wedge he might be tempted. That said would any PL club offer the role to man with so little league experience? I seriously doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 minute ago, The Horse With No Name said: I honestly believe it would be a division or two below that. If nothing else the standard of goalkeeping is parks football at best. True, but that wouldn't effect Sampson's ability to manage in men's football. It's the same game and where women lack in certain areas, that wouldn't be an issue. In fact, the women are probably technically better than many men's L1/L2 level players. He would have different (arguably better) tools to work with. A bit like a championship team taking a punt on a highly regarded conference manager. Should he ever decide to try it, I'd suspect a L1 club, the likes of MK Dons would be a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, richwwtk said: Didn't he take the England post from a job coaching in our Academy? The Bristol women's team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 15 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said: I remember similar suggestions when England rugby won the World Cup. Clive Woodward is a top man manager, so must be a good shout to manage a football team. Southampton appointed him and found that he was awful, and he never managed again. I would suggest the same thing would happen with Sampson, as women's football is almost a different sport to League football. Harry Redknapp was the Manager. Mr Woodward was a Director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Robbored said: I'm sure he could "hack it" but probably he'd have to start in the lower leagues so why would he want to leave a job as England manager? No idea how his salary compares to Southgate but I'd guess it's very seriously lower. Maybe a PL club offered him the managers job with a far better wedge he might be tempted. That said would any PL club offer the role to man with so little league experience? I seriously doubt it. I would be very surprised if most L1 managers weren't on more money than the England women's team manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 15 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said: I remember similar suggestions when England rugby won the World Cup. Clive Woodward is a top man manager, so must be a good shout to manage a football team. Southampton appointed him and found that he was awful, and he never managed again. I would suggest the same thing would happen with Sampson, as women's football is almost a different sport to League football. i don't think sir clive was ever appoint manager, he was appointed performance director at southampton but didn't get on with Harry Redknapp, then director of football after harry had left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I get your comparison, although at least Sampson is involved in the same sport, even if at a completely different level. I wonder where (physicality aside) the England women's football team would compare too in men's football..? Conference maybe, or is that being harsh on them..? You can't take the physicality out of the game unless you introduce a non-contact version. In the standard game I think any town side down to league 10 or 11 in the pyramid would beat them though their skill levels would see them up to ?Div 4 if you took that out of it. It's not compaable anyway, it's an amateur minority sport that gets excessive coverage because of the success of men's football. I'm sure they train as hard but so do, for example, women's water polo players and that doesn't get headline coverage on the BBC. As a reminder of how much of a lemon it is as a professional game: Notts County closed their successful women's football team at short notice in April this year. Their estimated costs for the season ahead were £500k. Their estimated revenues (tickets, programme sales, sponsorship) were £28k. Not for one game, for the whole season. £28k. It will never make it as a professional sport. (In case anyone thinks I have a downer on women's sport I don't. I think women's tennis is great, better than the men's game, and like women's athletics). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I'm sorry but for anyone who's actually watched the women in this tournament, they don't string passes together, all they seem to do is lump it as far as possible. England are fortunate that they are playing teams further behind in their development, I don't think Sampson would flourish in men's football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I doubt he'll leave before the next World Cup; he's done an excellent job, and depending on how these Euros go, could end up being one of the few managers of a England side to win anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Eddie Hitler said: You can't take the physicality out of the game unless you introduce a non-contact version. In the standard game I think any town side down to league 10 or 11 in the pyramid would beat them though their skill levels would see them up to ?Div 4 if you took that out of it. It's not compaable anyway, it's an amateur minority sport that gets excessive coverage because of the success of men's football. I'm sure they train as hard but so do, for example, women's water polo players and that doesn't get headline coverage on the BBC. As a reminder of how much of a lemon it is as a professional game: Notts County closed their successful women's football team at short notice in April this year. Their estimated costs for the season ahead were £500k. Their estimated revenues (tickets, programme sales, sponsorship) were £28k. Not for one game, for the whole season. £28k. It will never make it as a professional sport. (In case anyone thinks I have a downer on women's sport I don't. I think women's tennis is great, better than the men's game, and like women's athletics). I completely agree with your points, but that's not to say that a successful manager in the women's game could not be a successful manager in the men's game. Tactics, game plans, training, motivation, would all be relatively similar, I'd have thought. Hell, he could even make suggestions to the players 4 weeks a month, without getting his head bitten off..! (Joke!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bs4Red said: i'm sorry but for anyone who's actually watched the women in this tournament, they don't string passes together, all they seem to do is lump it as far as possible. England are fortunate that they are playing teams further behind in their development, I don't think Sampson would flourish in men's football That is an attacking intent. England are counter attacking and going through very fast transitions. Its press, win, one touch, bam, hit the sides and attack at speed when the opposition are out of balance. Its not being lumped as balls continually go into Nobbs wide and Bronze steams up in support. Hard to watch, but effective and planned. England beat a team last night who are ranked higher than they are and whose development in womens football is more advanced. England is not a highly developed womens football nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheddarReds Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I'd be interested to hear what women have to say about the standard of womens football and the level it could reach compared to mens. Was recently speaking to a womens coach who seems to think the top womens players should be able to play in the prem So be interested to hear some thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 27 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I get your comparison, although at least Sampson is involved in the same sport, even if at a completely different level. I wonder where (physicality aside) the England women's football team would compare too in men's football..? Conference maybe, or is that being harsh on them..? Bases on last night's game, a fair bit worse than conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, CheddarReds said: I'd be interested to hear what women have to say about the standard of womens football and the level it could reach compared to mens. Was recently speaking to a womens coach who seems to think the top womens players should be able to play in the prem So be interested to hear some thoughts Perhaps if more women supported women's football, it could start to grow. As it is, it's completely unsustainable, without funding/association with a men's club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, CheddarReds said: I'd be interested to hear what women have to say about the standard of womens football and the level it could reach compared to mens. Was recently speaking to a womens coach who seems to think the top womens players should be able to play in the prem So be interested to hear some thoughts Um, per my post above: no chance whatsoever will any woman be good enough to play in the top four divisions because of simple size and strength. Unless Brienne fancies a kick about that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said: How long before a proper/men's football team take a punt on this guy..? He's clearly got something in his management locker. I wonder what kind of club/offer would tempt him away from the England women's team..? Could he hack it in "real football"..? It would be interesting to see! There's nothing wrong with the question you're asking, I.e. Will Mark Sampson get a job in Men's football, and do you think he would be successful? However, whether tongue in cheek or not, what you have said and the way the thread continued from there is incredibly disrespectful. I'm not one for the PC brigade or taking offence on other people's behalf, but I'd like to see what would happen to you if you went and told the England team, or any local women's team for that matter, that they don't play 'real' football. I don't get the constant need for comparison, this is an Elite competition for women, they've reached the highest level and that level will only continue to get higher. We couldn't even comprehend the level of effort it has taken them to get to where they are in football. I've personally enjoyed the games I've seen of this Euros, but basically if you don't like it, don't watch it. To answer the Mark Sampson thing, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets a job in the English leagues fairly soon, and good luck to the fella, he's done a good job in his current role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 33 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I get your comparison, although at least Sampson is involved in the same sport, even if at a completely different level. I wonder where (physicality aside) the England women's football team would compare too in men's football..? Conference maybe, or is that being harsh on them..? Wouldn't think quite conference standard....not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bs4Red Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, Cowshed said: That is an attacking intent. England are counter attacking and going through very fast transitions. Its press, win, one touch, bam, hit the sides and attack at speed when the opposition are out of balance. Its not being lumped as balls continually go into Nobbs wide and Bronze steams up in support. Hard to watch, but effective and planned. England beat a team last night who are ranked higher than they are and whose development in womens football is more advanced. England is not a highly developed womens football nation. I've watched a lot and I think they give it away an awful lot and even when not on the counter. A lot of the time it is lumped. Have to disagree that it's passed. France are ranked higher but England's development in recent years have overtaken France etc. The work going on at Grassroots football for women is huge and it's reaping benefits for the national teams. Other countries have had steady growth whereas our rapid growth has nearly overtaken a lot of these countries now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: Um, per my post above: no chance whatsoever will any woman be good enough to play in the top four divisions because of simple size and strength. Unless Brienne fancies a kick about that is. If serena or Venus Williams were any good at football...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 37 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I get your comparison, although at least Sampson is involved in the same sport, even if at a completely different level. I wonder where (physicality aside) the England women's football team would compare too in men's football..? Conference maybe, or is that being harsh on them..? World class womens teams get beaten by Academy under 16 sides. I believe I saw some specific examnples on here last week? Celebrate womans football for what it is. No comparison with the male game, and despite lots of right on comments regarding skill levels and honesty, it is very poorly attended outside of major international tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, Coxy27 said: There's nothing wrong with the question you're asking, I.e. Will Mark Sampson get a job in Men's football, and do you think he would be successful? However, whether tongue in cheek or not, what you have said and the way the thread continued from there is incredibly disrespectful. I'm not one for the PC brigade or taking offence on other people's behalf, but I'd like to see what would happen to you if you went and told the England team, or any local women's team for that matter, that they don't play 'real' football. I don't get the constant need for comparison, this is an Elite competition for women, they've reached the highest level and that level will only continue to get higher. We couldn't even comprehend the level of effort it has taken them to get to where they are in football. I've personally enjoyed the games I've seen of this Euros, but basically if you don't like it, don't watch it. To answer the Mark Sampson thing, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets a job in the English leagues fairly soon, and good luck to the fella, he's done a good job in his current role. I am ill-disposed towards it at the moment because of the BBC's blanket and often decitful coverage of it. I am sure that they train as hard but so do volleyball players for example and I don't see that getting banner headlines and live showings of games. It is statements such as these on the BBC that have me comparing it because they are: Quote The result ensured boss Mark Sampson created his own history by becoming the first England manager since Sir Alf Ramsey in 1968 to reach consecutive semi-finals at major tournaments, having also guided his team to third place at the 2015 World Cup. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40765772 Quote In England's opening group match against Scotland, the 31-year-old Arsenal striker joined Sir Geoff Hurst and Gary Lineker in becoming the only England players to score hat-tricks at major tournaments. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40769996 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 21 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said: Wouldn't think quite conference standard....not even close. When I completed a coaching course via the Somerset FA one of the tutors was a female Yeovil coach. Her skill level was above any of the eighteen males taking the course including ex conference and western league level. Skill is of course different to physicality, but it is a standard where females can excel. 18 minutes ago, Bs4Red said: I've watched a lot and I think they give it away an awful lot and even when not on the counter. A lot of the time it is lumped. Have to disagree that it's passed. France are ranked higher but England's development in recent years have overtaken France etc. The work going on at Grassroots football for women is huge and it's reaping benefits for the national teams. Other countries have had steady growth whereas our rapid growth has nearly overtaken a lot of these countries now. Its a tactic. The special ones teams prospered on less than 30% possession like England v Spain women. Sampsons tactics of introducing the ball into areas (the sides) are not so different. It is not lamping it back to front because they avoid Taylor playing on here own up top. The work going on at Grassroots football for women is huge ... And there is an award winning women's team in South Bristol. A lot is going on, its not huge. England's development in recent years have overtaken France etc ... Sorry England has neither the licensed coaches or facilities and that includes junior football for males. Our rapid growth has nearly overtaken a lot of these countries now ... Hardly. Female football in Bristol is growing but the leagues v male junior football are small and often consist of seven or eight teams only who have to travel greater distances than male counterparts to get games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789000 Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Just now, Eddie Hitler said: I am ill-disposed towards it at the moment because of the BBC's blanket and often decitful coverage of it. I am sure that they train as hard but so do volleyball players for example and I don't see that getting banner headlines and live showings of games. It is statements such as these on the BBC that have me comparing it because they are: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40765772 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40769996 I completely agree with you. I think it is its own sport and should be treated as such. On BBC there should be a Women's Football section just like there is Formula 1, Tennis etc. The coverage is OTT and I imagine that the vast majority of people who visit the BBC Football page will not be the slightest bit interested in half the articles on there at the moment. The 'if you don't like it, don't watch it' approach is all well and good, but it's impossible to get away from right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 I'd have that Lucy Bronze at right back in a heart beat/flat back four. Top top full back. Adam Matthews of last season or Lucia Roberta Tough (yes, Tough) Bronze? Bronzer every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Nolan Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Worst part of womens football for me is the co-commentators. Last night she sounded like a Victoria Wood (god rest her soul) parody of someone who was talking to an audience who have never watched a game of football before. Bring back big Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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