Smoke

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, JulieH said:

I can also add I was working that day .

a smoke grenade was held up high and the contents of it dropped onto a female beside the culprit burning her city top onto her skin, she was treated for burns by the medical team on duty.

the culprit was arrested and received a caution for criminal damage to the shirt and assault. This was agreed by the victim as the culprit was not known to the police.

these items burn at very high temperatures, I have seen several burn injuries on hands of offenders and the best advice I can give if one lands near you is to kick it away immediately, preferably somewhere safe, throwing it on the pitch is not a great option.

i will contact Bcfc and ensure the details of the witness is obtained to assist in our investigation of the grenade at Bcfc v Barnsley .

If you're in the situation of the guy yesterday, kick it where exactly? He was in the middle of a crowded stand with people stood in all directions. Whichever way he could've disposed of it could've harmed someone else. Sounds like he panicked a bit and did the natural reaction of throwing it somewhere out of harms way.

[pommers65]

10 hours ago, Agard Days Night said:

Can't believe the club are going to take such a hard line on this. We pay for our tickets and if we want to do something 'against the rules' we bloody well will. Who are they to tell us what to do. What next, lifetime ban for actually joining in with a song or prosecution for jumping up to celebrate a goal? Shambles. 

Belter...

[JulieH]

21 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

If you're in the situation of the guy yesterday, kick it where exactly? He was in the middle of a crowded stand with people stood in all directions. Whichever way he could've disposed of it could've harmed someone else. Sounds like he panicked a bit and did the natural reaction of throwing it somewhere out of harms way.

I agree it is difficult but having seen burns on hands my best advice is definitely not to pick it up .

i am told cctv has the incident caught so the officer dealing wil review that and speak to witnesses before a final decision will be made .

[Super]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

Most obviously I do feel for your experience. However with all respect there are unlikely to be 6 month old babies in a football stadium.

@paulcityfan appears to be more qualified than most to comment, his conclusion is that handled responsibly they are safe and not a health hazard. Indeed, several people on this thread have stated they suffer from asthma and confirmed that the smoke did not adversely affect them.

Obviously there is the possibility that in the wrong hands they could be dangerous. But I'd like to think that even the more exuberant would not deliberately seek to use colored smoke as an indiscriminate weapon. Maybe, if the law allowed, a reasonable compromise would be to allow their use by approved individuals.

It would appear from this thread that a narrow majority are in favour of colored smoke, while the reasons given from those who object frankly appear to be along the lines of either self righteous "because its against the law", or a misguided belief that colored smoke  is harmful.

Perhaps the law and the views of the nanny state should be changed.

Not sure if this post is serious or not? Staggering if it is.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, JulieH said:

I agree it is difficult but having seen burns on hands my best advice is definitely not to pick it up .

i am told cctv has the incident caught so the officer dealing wil review that and speak to witnesses before a final decision will be made .

People in that situation may not be aware or even think about the capacity for burns. He probably just wanted to get rid of it asap. Hope the club/police deal with this using common sense.

 

[Super]

2 minutes ago, JulieH said:

I agree it is difficult but having seen burns on hands my best advice is definitely not to pick it up .

i am told cctv has the incident caught so the officer dealing wil review that and speak to witnesses before a final decision will be made .

Easy to identify then and ban them. 

[NickJ]

6 minutes ago, Super said:

Not sure if this post is serious or not? Staggering if it is.

For the avoidance of doubt, deadly serious, so continue to be staggered.

What are you staggered by?

[Norn Iron]

2 minutes ago, NickJ said:

For the avoidance of doubt, deadly serious, so continue to be staggered.

What are you staggered by?

Your spelling for starters.

It's coloured not colored.

[NickJ]

5 minutes ago, Norn Iron said:

Your spelling for starters.

It's coloured not colored.

Without wanting to send this into dictionary corner, coloured is the British version and the  preferred spelling in the UK but colored is the American preferred version and both are correct.

[Globe Trotter]

22 minutes ago, JulieH said:

I agree it is difficult but having seen burns on hands my best advice is definitely not to pick it up .

i am told cctv has the incident caught so the officer dealing wil review that and speak to witnesses before a final decision will be made .

Hi Julie I'm happy to be contacted as a witness. I was stood directly next to the young woman and her son, flare landed at her sons feet and obviously scared the boy, the man the other side then picked it up and threw it on to pitch to get it away from the young lad. I'm not sure there was anything else he could have done but like I said happy to be contacted. 

[Coombsy]

I fill sorry for the bloke who picked it up because it landed by his family 

he now face a ban for protecting him self and kids 

may be the person will be brave enough to come forward and take responsibility for his or hers actions 

as they was the ones to choose bring it in also setting it off 

[JulieH]

52 minutes ago, tommy32 said:

Hi Julie I'm happy to be contacted as a witness. I was stood directly next to the young woman and her son, flare landed at her sons feet and obviously scared the boy, the man the other side then picked it up and threw it on to pitch to get it away from the young lad. I'm not sure there was anything else he could have done but like I said happy to be contacted. 

Brill will find out what is happening and contact u asap to sort out. Thank you.

[Agard Days Night]

2 hours ago, pommers65 said:

Belter...

Wet.

[BobBobSuperBob]

 

[Bianconeri]

13 hours ago, NickJ said:

Yes I can see that would merit a ban and prosecution. 

While the club is on the offensive for these vandals, could it also for example identify the culprit that  wasted £3 million on Tomlin and sold him on for next to nothing,  now that really offends me.

Every day, most posters on here  - including the killjoys - drive cars, knowing that they cause pollution and hence are harmful to others. They also know they could be involved in an accident where a child is killed. That is an unavoidable statistical fact, and yet every day you still take that risk.

Puts into perspective the remote possibility that somebody could be caused serious harm from colored smoke.

Not the same thing at all is it? If you add to the risk by driving your car like an idiot you will eventually end up with a ban or worse you could kill or injure someone. If you ignore speed limits because "there are no cameras to catch me" you are antisocial as well as dangerous. 

There are some daft laws but you can't just ignore the ones you don't like. If you ignore a driving ban  "because you don't agree with the law" you could end up with a holiday at the government's expense.

What troubles me more is the "republic of me" attitude that prevails in this country now and results in the "I want to do it so FRO if you disagree" that we see everwhere.

For sure, the law tells you what you must or must not do but ethics, or the moral compass, tells you what you should do. Everyone seems to want "respect" or " rights" without any corresponding respect for others or responsibility. Half of society now seems to think that ethics is north east of London or didn't do geography at school.....

 

[NickJ]

5 minutes ago, Bianconeri said:

Not the same thing at all is it? If you add to the risk by driving your car like an idiot you will eventually end up with a ban or worse you could kill or injure someone. If you ignore speed limits because "there are no cameras to catch me" you are antisocial as well as dangerous. 

There are some daft laws but you can't just ignore the ones you don't like. If you ignore a driving ban  "because you don't agree with the law" you could end up with a holiday at the government's expense.

 

Driving a car is legal but when you do so you are causing more harm to others than if you let off some colored smoke in a football stadium, which is illegal.

Over the years daft and unjust laws have been changed because they were challenged.

Law makers and enforcers should represent what the majority want.

I'm quite happy for the club to ban people who deliberately cause violent acts in a stadium, and for the police to prosecute them. I don't think that should extend to letting off some colored smoke, since it would appear that the majority seem to think it adds to the atmosphere but not at the expense of causing harm to others.

That is not at all tantamount, as you suggest, to a "FRO attitude and I'll do what I want".

 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

It's hard to believe this thread is continuing when the carrying of flares and smoke bombs into football grounds, let alone the discharge and throwing of them, is illegal. 

The club cannot apply 'common sense' or 'turn a blind eye', as it is duty bound to comply with the law of the land. If there is persistent offending and City were not to comply, the EFL/FA would be entitled to take action which could result in a large fine or deduction of points. It is possible that non-compliance could be deemed an offence under the Health & Safey Act which, in extremis, could see the loss of our safety licence and the ground closed. 

All for the sake of the actions of a few childish brats. 

[CyderInACan]

Loving the fact that people are genuinely defending something this dangerous &/or illegal because the perpetrators had been drinking all day or because they were exuberant. Oh and I forgot that it's ok because the smoke looks great  

Oh well boys that's ok, because you were pissed it's fine. What utter nonsense. A few moronic individuals need to have a word with themselves. 

[David Brent]

16 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

So over the top. Sad really. Club should use a bit of common sense - first game of the season excitement, people been drinking all day - stuff happens.

Maybe somewhat draconian but they're the rules and up to the club if they want to enforce it. People know this.

And drinking is never an excuse for anything.

[redcityman]

4 hours ago, NickJ said:

For the avoidance of doubt, deadly serious, so continue to be staggered.

What are you staggered by?

Probably by the fact that you quoted someone then proceeded to pick the parts that favoured you're argument whilst ignoring the rest!

Do not use in confined spaces, i would say dropped into a crowd is a confined space, just because a roof is not immediately overhead doesn't mean someone will not inhale the fumes. 

He also stated that in his opinion the smoke does cause breathing problem, he even stated an occasion whereby an whole box went off and how easily one could ignite in the pocket, but again you obviously missed that!

 

 

 

 

I do wonder how many of those pro flares would feel about sitting/ standing next to someone smoking an E cig throughout the game?

Actually I can already hear the hypocrisy.

[redapple]

15 hours ago, Leveller said:

I suspect most of us havent got a clue whether this sort of smoke device is as dangerous as a firework and that's part of the problem.

Half are assuming they're quite dangerous and the other half are assuming they're harmless.

Does anyone actually know?

I think you've hit the nail on the head, but not getting any answers re the perceived dangers . 

[Norn Iron]

We're also reading things like the majority don't mind flares etc.

Let's get this into perspective. There have been, so far, 171 posts plus this one on the subject of flares.

Over 18k at the Gate yesterday. 

Unless you can do a survey on all that went, it's difficult to back up how many actually like/want flares in the ground.

It seems to be a subjective and emotionally charged topic. 

However, the evidence seems to outweigh the pro supporters. It can be/is dangerous to the perpetrator and those around. See PC Julie for her posts here.

The man who through the flare away from the child should be applauded for his action. I'm sure the Police and the officials will agree whilst make a warning as to dangers of picking it up etc..

 

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

8 minutes ago, redapple said:

I think you've hit the nail on the head, but not getting any answers re the perceived dangers . 

Have a look at post#140 which is a long and detailed post from someone who knows a lot more than most of us about them and covers pretty much everything.

(not quoting it as it is very long and I know how much that annoys some reading on phones!)

[NickJ]

14 minutes ago, redcityman said:

Probably by the fact that you quoted someone then proceeded to pick the parts that favoured you're argument whilst ignoring the rest!

Do not use in confined spaces, i would say dropped into a crowd is a confined space, just because a roof is not immediately overhead doesn't mean someone will not inhale the fumes. 

He also stated that in his opinion the smoke does cause breathing problem, he even stated an occasion whereby an whole box went off and how easily one could ignite in the pocket, but again you obviously missed that!

 

Except I haven't ignored anything he said.

He actually says that  they do cause breathing irritation and should not be used in confined spaces.

I would  interpret "breathing irritation" as a minor short term effect.

A confined space I would assume  means an enclosed space where the smoke cannot escape.

His conclusion is key:

"Sometimes dangerous if handled badly but usually pretty safe if used sensibly and one at a time.  My conclusion is in the open air of a stadium no real harm done to health but really dangerous if thrown at people".

Clearly they will be dangerous if thrown at people, but so far as I know that did not happen; the whole idea is to create fun and add to the atmosphere.

As for the comment that it could go off in your pocket, I didn't miss that, it's just that I am assuming responsible use.

@Bob Bob Super Bob has posted a video on this thread, of all the dozens if not hundreds featured, I cannot see a single person in breathing difficulty or appearing to be the slightest bit distressed.

 

[richwwtk]

5 hours ago, NickJ said:

For the avoidance of doubt, deadly serious, so continue to be staggered.

What are you staggered by?

Can't speak for Super, but I am staggered by the fact that you continue to defend the people doing this when Julie has already clearly stated that people were hurt and needed treatment from the devices yesterday.

Also your assertion about babies not being likely to be in the ground is demonstrably wrong. I took my son at 8 weeks old, I'm sure others have done and continue to do so.

[RumRed]

It is illegal, the club have to act otherwise they will receive sanctions.  I don't understand the comments of 'wet' or 'we pay our money so can do as we want'?

If I pay an entrance fee to Disneyland does that allow me to throw a pyro into the queue for 'Pirates of the Carribean', no chance I'd be face down on the floor with 3 guns pointed at my head within 20 seconds.

[Negan]

22 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

I bloody love the smoke... I've also got a breathing problem ... dont care love it

Same here, keep bringing it lads! 

[RumRed]

Just now, Tuggin over Tomlin said:

Same here, keep bringing it lads! 

If you love it so much why don't you let one off at the next home game?  

Serious question.

[NickJ]

2 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Can't speak for Super, but I am staggered by the fact that you continue to defend the people doing this when Julie has already clearly stated that people were hurt and needed treatment from the devices yesterday.

Also your assertion about babies not being likely to be in the ground is demonstrably wrong. I took my son at 8 weeks old, I'm sure others have done and continue to do so.

Aah, we are getting to the stage in the thread where people make things up to suit their own agenda.

Julie has not said that people were hurt and needed treatment yesterday, she was talking about a deliberate act at a different event that she was at previously.

Here is what Julie said:

"I can also add I was working that day .

a smoke grenade was held up high and the contents of it dropped onto a female beside the culprit burning her city top onto her skin, she was treated for burns by the medical team on duty.

the culprit was arrested and received a caution for criminal damage to the shirt and assault. This was agreed by the victim as the culprit was not known to the police.

these items burn at very high temperatures, I have seen several burn injuries on hands of offenders and the best advice I can give if one lands near you is to kick it away immediately, preferably somewhere safe, throwing it on the pitch is not a great option.

i will contact Bcfc and ensure the details of the witness is obtained to assist in our investigation of the grenade at Bcfc v Barnsley".

ie, a non football related event where a person for whatever reason droppped the grenade on to a person.

[Negan]

1 minute ago, RumRed said:

If you love it so much why don't you let one off at the next home game?  

Serious question.

No because I'll be arrested mate