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Why keep Engvall


Redmycolour

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Sigh. This old chestnut again.

We are at a point where as a football club things are beginning to come together, our stadiums current redevelopments are done and we have an extremely wealthy owner willing to put money into the club. Our recruitment policy is changing with the times. Long gone are the David James' etc, we are looking to sign young, youthful players with promise. Some of these players will not work out, we will buy the odd player for a 7 figure sum and they will flop. That's what'll happen when we're signing youngsters hoping they develop and fulfil their full potential. Get used to it.

But on the topic of Gustav, we are lucky to have a few striker options at the club now and maybe the reality is at this current moment he isn't good enough. So we loan him out to play games of football at a level where he can excel and continue to learn.

As for your swipe at Johnson, it's getting tediously boring - the bloke clearly isn't in charge of all transfers, and that's okay, he's a head coach. Gustav was picked up due to our scouting team, you know, scouting him? He's young. Give him time.

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Out on loan

[170] Note: Flags indicate national team as defined under FIFA eligibility rules. Players may hold more than one non-FIFA nationality.

No.   Position Player
England GK Jamal Blackman (on loan to Sheffield United until 30 June 2018)
England GK Nathan Baxter (on loan to Woking until 30 June 2018)
England GK Jared Thompson (on loan to Chippenham Town until 30 June 2018)
England GK Bradley Collins (on loan to Forest Green Rovers until 30 June 2018)
England DF Fankaty Dabo (on loan to Vitesse until 30 June 2018)
United States DF Matt Miazga (on loan to Vitesse until 30 June 2018)
Nigeria DF Ola Aina (on loan to Hull City until 30 June 2018)
Jamaica DF Michael Hector (on loan to Hull City until 30 June 2018)
England DF Todd Kane (on loan to Groningen until 30 June 2018)
England DF Jay Dasilva (on loan to Charlton Athleticuntil 30 June 2018)
France DF Kurt Zouma (on loan to Stoke City until 30 June 2018)
Czech Republic DF Tomáš Kalas (on loan to Fulham until 30 June 2018)
Brazil MF Lucas Piazon (on loan to Fulham until 30 June 2018)
 
No.   Position Player
Ivory Coast MF Victorien Angban (on loan to Waasland-Beveren until 30 June 2018)
England MF Charlie Colkett (on loan to Vitesse until 30 June 2018)
England MF Mason Mount (on loan to Vitesse until 30 June 2018)
England MF Ruben Loftus-Cheek (on loan to Crystal Palace until 30 June 2018)
England MF Kasey Palmer (on loan to Huddersfield Town until 30 June 2018)
Serbia MF Danilo Pantić (on loan to Partizan until 30 June 2018)
Croatia MF Mario Pašalić (on loan to Spartak Moscowuntil 30 June 2018)
Ecuador MF Josimar Quintero (on loan to Rostov until 30 June 2018)
Netherlands MF Marco van Ginkel (on loan to PSV until 30 June 2018)
England FW Tammy Abraham (on loan to Swansea until 30 June 2018)
England FW Izzy Brown (on loan to Brighton & Hove Albion until 30 June 2018)
England FW Ike Ugbo (on loan to Barnsley until 30 June 2018)

 

Same reason CFC keep these players. Most unlikely to make it there, but if they're ever good enough to get in the first XI they will have saved a fortune, if they're not, they'll sell them and might make a pretty penny. Inevitably you will have some losses. This is only a selection of players not in the first team, their are many more under contract and in the youth teams.

If Gus makes it here, brilliant, if not we've not lost a great deal, in football terms. Hopefully he'll be back in a few months ready to challenge for a place, if not, then another loan beckons. Then someone else can bring this topic up in January.

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27 minutes ago, redmycolour said:

What a waste of talent, can't understand why Johnson bought him as he has no intention of playing him in the Championship. 

Why not keep him? 

A promising young player, under contract, get him out playing games somewhere and see what happens. 

If he never gets in the team here, oh well. If he does, then happy days. 

I sometimes wonder if some of our fans understand the way we've upped our game to operate now. 

Sign promising young talent for relatively small fees, if we think there is a good chance of development and/or future profit. As someone said above, just like Chelsea do. 

Gone are the days of every player being relied upon to produce instantly, usually leading to overall failure of the team. It's all a much bigger picture now. 

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2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Why not keep him? 

A promising young player, under contract, get him out playing games somewhere and see what happens. 

If he never gets in the team here, oh well. If he does, then happy days. 

I sometimes wonder if some of our fans understand the way we've upped our game to operate now. 

Sign promising young talent for relatively small fees, if we think there is a good chance of development and/or future profit. As someone said above, just like Chelsea do. 

Gone are the days of every player being relied upon to produce instantly, usually leading to overall failure of the team. It's all a much bigger picture now. 

Spot on,

It's the way we are operating now, bring in young players who have potential, the ideal situation is that they come in, perform admirably and either propel us up the league structure of net us 15 million quid ala Kodja.

If they don't work we move them on and don't take a huge hit on them.

I'd rather 5 Gustav Engvals (even if he doesn't work out) than 1 Tony Dinning, Nucky Hunt, Paul Mortimer, etc, etc.

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1 minute ago, Spud55 said:

Spot on,

It's the way we are operating now, bring in young players who have potential, the ideal situation is that they come in, perform admirably and either propel us up the league structure of net us 15 million quid ala Kodja.

If they don't work we move them on and don't take a huge hit on them.

I'd rather 5 Gustav Engvals (even if he doesn't work out) than 1 Tony Dinning, Nucky Hunt, Paul Mortimer, etc, etc.

I bet it won't be too many seasons before we (ala Chelsea & Lukaku) want to buy a player that didn't quite work out for us at the time before, for big money. It's not a missed opportunity, it just sometimes isn't possible to fully develop a player yourselves when there are only 11 first team places available each week. 

Envall going out on loan makes perfect sense. Eliasson even said that he gave us a glowing recommendation. There is no problem here. It's modern day football for a club with our rescourses. 

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42 minutes ago, redmycolour said:

What a waste of talent, can't understand why Johnson bought him as he has no intention of playing him in the Championship. 

Boring topic done to death.

It's quite possible though we just got it wrong on Engvall. It happens. Our strategy appears to be (relatively) high risk (£1-5m) outlay - high reward (best case £7.5-20m selling fee). 

Whilst this can work brilliantly - Kodjia last summer for example. It will go wrong sometimes. We won't have the success of Kodjia every single time.

I haven't seen enough of Engvall live to judge him as a player, but the management team have. Sometimes signings just won't work out and we'll have to cut our losses. 

I really hope though he finds form in Sweden and comes back and competes.. but he might not and never will. Let's see what happens.

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I guess the only issue is how much of his salary are we still paying?

Is that spend worth if it compared to a potential fee we could get now if he is to never return?

I do wonder why we brought him back for our pre-season (put him up for interview pre Argyle) surely someone could have seen if / how he had progressed?

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Anyone remember Jim Brennan?

He signed for us in 1994, didn't make a first team appearance until 1997 and didn't play regularly until 1998. A year later we sold him for £1.5m, which was an awful lot back then.

I'll grant you he was a couple of years younger than Engvall and we didn't pay a fee for him but it was still 4 years before he was a regular. Sometimes players take a while to settle and adapt. It doesn't make them worthless.

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Without a bid we don't have any choice but to keep him.

The kid has not really gelled and has been a victim of sitting on the bench hence @Engvall's Splinter

If he scores a few more interest will come and by Jan we may need an in form striker. As long as Steve foots the bill and we are making money from sales and development of players we can afford to let this one sit (not on our bench :laugh:) and see how it pans out!

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1 hour ago, Spud55 said:

Spot on,

It's the way we are operating now, bring in young players who have potential, the ideal situation is that they come in, perform admirably and either propel us up the league structure of net us 15 million quid ala Kodja.

If they don't work we move them on and don't take a huge hit on them.

I'd rather 5 Gustav Engvals (even if he doesn't work out) than 1 Tony Dinning, Nucky Hunt, Paul Mortimer, etc, etc.

If we had 5 Gustav's we would be ****** under FFP wouldn't we?

OK its likely the purchases of Engval and it looks like Hörður asnd possibly Taylor won't work out. That is football, but how some people write it off as next to nothing amazes me. SL ploughs money into the club but those three are what 5-6 million pounds worth before you factor in wages? If they flop here then we are unlikely to get much back.

As I say thats football but if we sign three duds per season as a struggling Champ side then it will bite us on the arse eventually.

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the point that seems to be being missed is that all those Chelsea loans not only end up with the majority of their wages being paid by the host club they also draw a loan fee.

whilst not suggesting we are at that point I think that is the way we are heading. a great move if you get it right.

you have a load of players on your books with lower league experience at a portion of the real cost.

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28 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

If we had 5 Gustav's we would be ****** under FFP wouldn't we?

OK its likely the purchases of Engval and it looks like Hörður asnd possibly Taylor won't work out. That is football, but how some people write it off as next to nothing amazes me. SL ploughs money into the club but those three are what 5-6 million pounds worth before you factor in wages? If they flop here then we are unlikely to get much back.

As I say thats football but if we sign three duds per season as a struggling Champ side then it will bite us on the arse eventually.

Because they were signed for relatively small amounts, other than Taylor the fess will almost certainly not be large up front fees, Gustav was about 1.5 of which a good chunk is going to be in add-ons so I would hazard we are looking around 1 mil up front.  Hörður was around 1.8 million so likely around 1.2 -1.5 up front max, Taylor cost 300k so we are looking at an actual outlay of about 2.5 million, and if we were to sell them all now, we would get most of that back, their wages will be negligible at this level.

You speak as if a player only gets one chance, and if they are no good at that team then they are worthless, just because players don't work here doesn't mean that someone else isn't willing to pay decent money for them and it doesn't mean that we wont get anything in the future for them, Bolaise was hardly setting the world alight here, and we got what 6-7 million for him in total. 

If we let Gustav go for 800k we have not lost much and with a 30% plus sell on fee if he turns out half decent we get the rest if not more back if we were wrong.  If he comes back off loan and gets in the side and scores 10 goals after Jan and 20 goals next season we have another 15 million quid on the books.

Yes we will get it wrong and sign some players that aren't up to it, but we are not playing at conference level, a player who is not quite good enough for this level is still work 500k minimum, it's not as if Gustav is worthless if he doesn't make it here.

You only have to get 1 right to finance another 10 duds, as long as you aren't signing abject garbage for stupid money (which we clearly arent)

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15 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

Because they were signed for relatively small amounts, other than Taylor the fess will almost certainly not be large up front fees, Gustav was about 1.5 of which a good chunk is going to be in add-ons so I would hazard we are looking around 1 mil up front.  Hörður was around 1.8 million so likely around 1.2 -1.5 up front max, Taylor cost 300k so we are looking at an actual outlay of about 2.5 million, and if we were to sell them all now, we would get most of that back, their wages will be negligible at this level.

You speak as if a player only gets one chance, and if they are no good at that team then they are worthless, just because players don't work here doesn't mean that someone else isn't willing to pay decent money for them and it doesn't mean that we wont get anything in the future for them, Bolaise was hardly setting the world alight here, and we got what 6-7 million for him in total. 

If we let Gustav go for 800k we have not lost much and with a 30% plus sell on fee if he turns out half decent we get the rest if not more back if we were wrong.  If he comes back off loan and gets in the side and scores 10 goals after Jan and 20 goals next season we have another 15 million quid on the books.

Yes we will get it wrong and sign some players that aren't up to it, but we are not playing at conference level, a player who is not quite good enough for this level is still work 500k minimum, it's not as if Gustav is worthless if he doesn't make it here.

You only have to get 1 right to finance another 10 duds, as long as you aren't signing abject garbage for stupid money (which we clearly arent)

Lots of guesswork there Spud but hope you are right about the add ons and salaries.

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He's 21 and will still have 2.5 years left on his contract assuming the old 3 year plus club option. He may not hit his best until 24. Look he could still make it here in the championship and he very easily could wind up in the Dutch league or Bundesliga 2 next summer. We're keeping him around because I assume any fees talked about don't match what we want and scoring goals in Sweden will only up his price tag some. That's if he doesn't come back a better player in January. There are numerous possibilities with Gustav but the reason to keep him is because he's young and still has time left on his contract to come good. 

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2 hours ago, Selred said:

Personally don't understand why we haven't loaned him to a league one club like we wanted to do in Jan.

I reckon he's likely going out with a view to a permanent move in January. I can see why we might not want to sell just yet; their season is nearly over, if he goes back and doesn't score regularly it probably won't impact his value that much. If he keeps it up we are in a better bargaining position as the selling club. 

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