Luxo Jr. Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, havanatopia said: I shall have to listen to LJ but if he criticised him that is more than poor. I really do not like nor see why a manager has to name and shame in public more so when the guy is new, new to England and only played for 1/4 of a match. What does that do other than enable him to release his anger? As far as the player is concerned he now spends the weekend totally deflated and not a little humiliated. Once again I think that is very poor man management. Couple of things (and I know you haven't heard the interview, so this is no angry retort): 1. LJ was directly asked "What did you think of Eliasson's debut?" He answered very honestly, gave positives and negatives, and didn't blame him for the loss. Said he was good on the one-on-ones but lost the man for his goal. If he'd swerved that and just praised him, I guarantee fans would have said "load of rubbish, he was terrible tracking back". 2. If players genuinely get very badly affected by comments like that by the manager, I have no faith in football any more. In fact, I'm fairly sure tough love can work quite well (obviously have no idea whether it does with Johnson with no first hand experience), but I don't think that was tough love. It was an honest assessment from a very direct question. I'm fine with how Johnson addresses the media. If our players aren't strong enough characters to deal with comments like "he lost his man for the goal", then you have to seriously question whether they have the mental strength for high-level football. I personally think Eliasson will not be affected by this, but will just learn lessons and come back stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 If he hadn't come on yesterday then you can bet the Engvall comparisons would be getting trotted out straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Luxo Jr. said: I'm fine with how Johnson addresses the media. If our players aren't strong enough characters to deal with comments like "he lost his man for the goal", then you have to seriously question whether they have the mental strength for high-level football. There was a Magnússon thread where someone close to the player suggested LJ had not discussed the things he said in public with the player. For instance stating publicly he couldn't play LB in this league. That thread was then deleted by the mods which suggested the person saying this WAS itk and worried it could cause trouble. I don't have a problem with LJ being open with the media and fans. I would have a massive problem though if he doesn't have the same honest approach with the players themselves. To me that seems like terrible man management. However I realise that we probably will never know the truth of this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samo II Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Northern Red said: If he hadn't come on yesterday then you can bet the Engvall comparisons would be getting trotted out straight away. I wondered about this too; even in the context of the result, and part of me is pleased he got minutes to avoid this. Two other thoughts orbited around LJ's post-match 'review' of Eliasson; he started talking about the lad specifically allowing the player to get away from him for the winner, which was an unfortunate trait of Johnson last year (publically critiquing player errors), but he then rolled on to speak about the positives, and ended saying the lad will do well. Going to sound dumb, but even that slight change to his approach post-match suggested he'd learnt from last year - willing to (honestly) point out his frustration with a young player, but now counter it with positives. Also; he's now essentially outlined how we'll be expecting those wide players to press and defend, with no exceptions. Last year, having Tomlin out there was often a bit of a joke, as you'd see either Bryan or Little (depending what wing he'd drifted to) massively exposed. Only after we reverted to 442 and threw Brownhill and Paterson on the flanks, and saw them working their behinds off to help out their full backs did we tighten up defensively - might be the new lad and O'Dowda have to get up to speed on this aspect, but I think it is good to have options in these areas now, as they whoever is on pitch will have to work hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Major Isewater said: As I said on an earlier thread , I felt it was giving up the midfield when LJ brought the two wide men on . There is a part of LJ that believes Roy of the Rovers was real and he dreams the impossible. When it comes off it is magic but mostly we lose out to more pragmatic teams. Sometimes , particularly away from home , shutting up shop and caution are the way to go. IMHO Exactly this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxo Jr. Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 8 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said: There was a Magnússon thread where someone close to the player suggested LJ had not discussed the things he said in public with the player. For instance stating publicly he couldn't play LB in this league. That thread was then deleted by the mods which suggested the person saying this WAS itk and worried it could cause trouble. I don't have a problem with LJ being open with the media and fans. I would have a massive problem though if he doesn't have the same honest approach with the players themselves. To me that seems like terrible man management. However I realise that we probably will never know the truth of this situation. Completely agreed. Obviously if there was little communication with the players before these sort of public statements, that would be poor man-management. I have no idea what the issues with Magnússon and Johnson are. What I am prepared to bet is that it's nowhere near as black and white as people are arguing it to be, e.g Johnson is a tyrannical monster and constantly belittles his players, or everything is fine, there's nothing wrong with Magnússon and he's happy with his place at the club. I don't believe either of those previous statements are true, and I don't believe the people who press those ideas really know the first-hand evidence. Even if, for example, a player had grumbled to someone very close to them about how they were being treated, we all know that people exaggerate their own circumstance to get sympathy. If things were as bad as some people had claimed, then we would have had mass walk-outs this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 13 hours ago, EDoubleD said: 38 year old left back. Cutting inside makes his life a lot easier. But I like your optimism that he's a messi/Ronaldo/ neymar Not necessarily, not many left backs are comfortable trying to tackle with their right foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 32 minutes ago, Luxo Jr. said: Couple of things (and I know you haven't heard the interview, so this is no angry retort): 1. LJ was directly asked "What did you think of Eliasson's debut?" He answered very honestly, gave positives and negatives, and didn't blame him for the loss. Said he was good on the one-on-ones but lost the man for his goal. If he'd swerved that and just praised him, I guarantee fans would have said "load of rubbish, he was terrible tracking back". 2. If players genuinely get very badly affected by comments like that by the manager, I have no faith in football any more. In fact, I'm fairly sure tough love can work quite well (obviously have no idea whether it does with Johnson with no first hand experience), but I don't think that was tough love. It was an honest assessment from a very direct question. I'm fine with how Johnson addresses the media. If our players aren't strong enough characters to deal with comments like "he lost his man for the goal", then you have to seriously question whether they have the mental strength for high-level football. I personally think Eliasson will not be affected by this, but will just learn lessons and come back stronger. Well noted. Listened to it and must have missed it but cannot hear him criticising Eliasson in name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 minute ago, havanatopia said: Well noted. Listened to it and must have missed it but cannot hear him criticising Eliasson in name. Yeah, definitely wasn't undue criticism. Just honest feedback on his performance - good points and bad points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodjias Wrist Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 He came on and didn't really have time or enough of the ball to make an impact. Im curious to see how well he would have done in the first half when we were dominating and creating loads of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip City Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 4 hours ago, Major Isewater said: As I said on an earlier thread , I felt it was giving up the midfield when LJ brought the two wide men on . There is a part of LJ that believes Roy of the Rovers was real and he dreams the impossible. When it comes off it is magic but mostly we lose out to more pragmatic teams. Sometimes , particularly away from home , shutting up shop and caution are the way to go. IMHO Exactly this. We had a point in a tough away game and rather than hold on to it LJ gambled to a crazy degree. We played a 424 formation. Bet 'arry couldn't believe his luck! We were wide open from that point on, Diedhiou was also tiring badly so all round we were getting weaker. In direct answer to the question Eliasson looked good going forward, wanted the ball and got a couple of reasonable crosses in. Offered little or nothing defensively- but he appears to be an old fashioned out and out winger, so should we expect much defensively. Cant not mention O'Dowda - again just seems pointless, runs and runs but zero end product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendip City Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Luxo Jr. said: Couple of things (and I know you haven't heard the interview, so this is no angry retort): 1. LJ was directly asked "What did you think of Eliasson's debut?" He answered very honestly, gave positives and negatives, and didn't blame him for the loss. Said he was good on the one-on-ones but lost the man for his goal. If he'd swerved that and just praised him, I guarantee fans would have said "load of rubbish, he was terrible tracking back". 2. If players genuinely get very badly affected by comments like that by the manager, I have no faith in football any more. In fact, I'm fairly sure tough love can work quite well (obviously have no idea whether it does with Johnson with no first hand experience), but I don't think that was tough love. It was an honest assessment from a very direct question. I'm fine with how Johnson addresses the media. If our players aren't strong enough characters to deal with comments like "he lost his man for the goal", then you have to seriously question whether they have the mental strength for high-level football. I personally think Eliasson will not be affected by this, but will just learn lessons and come back stronger. Isn't the real problem that the media allow him to comment on individual players. It seem incapable (unable to? Not allowed to?) ask questions of LJ's performance. The only question I'd really want answered having watched yesterday is "do you think the substitutions had the desired affect or handed the initiative to Birmingham?" LJ is very honest in his answers and would probably explain what he hoped would happen and give us something to really discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtucks Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 5 hours ago, 50cal said: I don't think it was nieve decision to put an attacking player in Eliasson on, we deserved at least a point if not more from the game and a few players were looking tired at that stage. If Đurić had been fit then he would have been used upfront as well. I thought Johnson shouldn't have criticised Eliasson in his interview afterwards for not tracking back. Johnson made the decision to put him on to be the attacking threat and the lad has only been in the country 3days and playing in the championship. I would have brought Hinds on as well and taken a defender of for the last 5/10 minutes I don't think it was wrong to bring on two new attacking players, as it was obvious that tiredness was setting in. However, as Eliason had only been here for a few days, I would have brought Hinds on with O'Dowda. But then everyone has a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Redtucks said: I don't think it was wrong to bring on two new attacking players, as it was obvious that tiredness was setting in. However, as Eliason had only been here for a few days, I would have brought Hinds on with O'Dowda. But then everyone has a different opinion. My last job before retirement was as technical service in a packaging manufacturer. When confronted with problem(s) it was normal to only alter one machine setting at a time in order to not cloud the issue. Maybe LJ should only change one at a time as it's easier for the team to cope with the one change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxo Jr. Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Mendip City said: Isn't the real problem that the media allow him to comment on individual players. It seem incapable (unable to? Not allowed to?) ask questions of LJ's performance. The only question I'd really want answered having watched yesterday is "do you think the substitutions had the desired affect or handed the initiative to Birmingham?" LJ is very honest in his answers and would probably explain what he hoped would happen and give us something to really discuss. I doubt it's a question they're not allowed to ask - it does feel strange that no questions were asked of the tactics, but there we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 10 hours ago, Alessandro said: Glad to see in true OTIB fashion a new player has been judged and nearly written off by some after 20 minutes of his first appearance..... That's not true! However, it was clear to see that he really was not at the races....His first move was to throw himself on the floor theatrically and you need to look deep for the upside of bringing him on in that game at that time and what was contributed. If he had come on and beat a couple of players and set something up then we would be saying something else obviously, he didn't. I will say this though, one great run and Pack decided to knock the ball in rather than find him, so signs are there....But yesterday was not the game or the time for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie BCFC Posted August 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 11 hours ago, pommers65 said: 3 kids behind me yesterday said " he is shit & a waste of money" after 5 mins playing time...get rid asap as they clearly are experts Probably some 12 year olds who could probably make him play better...on FIFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pommers65 Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 not much older than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Do people think he will start Saturday. Home debut. Maybe for Paterson or Brownhill. Or of the bench. Exciting signing maybe time to unleash him . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class not gas Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 35 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said: Do people think he will start Saturday. Home debut. Maybe for Paterson or Brownhill. Or of the bench. Exciting signing maybe time to unleash him . Not to sure,looked lightweight against Brum,might take a few weeks for Lee & co to sort him out.The only person who will know if he's ready is Johnson & his staff they see him everyday in training.My guess is coming on from the bench again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 6 hours ago, class not gas said: Not to sure,looked lightweight against Brum,might take a few weeks for Lee & co to sort him out.The only person who will know if he's ready is Johnson & his staff they see him everyday in training.My guess is coming on from the bench again. I have seen him live ten times more than LJ. Staff included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class not gas Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said: I have sewn him live ten times' more than LJ. Staff included. So do you think he's ready for championship football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 He is more than capable but is in a poor side and he can not defend. Would be bettet off at Barcelona. Smells Saborio. A club you can't handle on handicap 54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class not gas Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said: He is more than capable but is in a poor side and he can not defend. Would be bettet off at Barcelona. Smells Saborio. A club you can't handle on handicap 54 Didn't look like poor side against Barnsley & very good first half at Birmingham, I would say inconsistent not poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRA Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said: He is more than capable but is in a poor side and he can not defend. Would be bettet off at Barcelona. Smells Saborio. A club you can't handle on handicap 54 Also known as Lee Tomlin syndrome. Disclaimer - I wanted him out, but he definitely suffered from the issue Tommy is talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 It always irritates me when managers buy classy attacking players then complain they can't defend. It's like buying a Bentley and then complaining it's shit off road. Put Eliasson in a position to attack and create and I suspect he will. While all players need to work hard and cover ground, making offensive players play a defensive role is stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shtanley Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 I think COD is more likely to start. Over Paterson for me, did okay when he came on tues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Subs always have an impact. Good or bad. Who ever they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodjias Wrist Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said: Subs always have an impact. Good or bad. Who ever they are. Really? I was at Birmingham and he made next to no impact at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 34 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said: Really? I was at Birmingham and he made next to no impact at all. He (and Hegeler) cost us their second goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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