Official retraction of Saturday's match report

[Davefevs]

16 hours ago, old_eastender said:

Paterson should have been taken off for sure, then we would have had a couple of options; Bring on GON to add another body and experienced head to CM to try and retain some possession, or bring on Maggers at LB and push Joe into left midfield. Get Brownhill playing more centrally too. If those changes don't result in Fammy seeing more of the ball, take him off and replace with Hinds or Eliasson - both who at least have the speed to possibly get onto the end of hurried clearances up field - Fammy does not.

 

 

 

 

Out of interest, if you bring on O'Neil for Paterson, how does the midfield line-up (with 4x natural CMs)?

14 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

The Championship is not a bonkers league, it is only defined by 3 points and the proximity of a 6 th place ( play off and seen as a success) and relegation(a disaster) , meaning third from bottom. Last year between 6th and 3rd bottom there were 29 points. The same comparison with L1 was also 29 points. In L2 it was much closer at 24 points (2nd from bottom, 26 points 3rd, bottom 2 relegated) .

Every league is the same, so can we stop this nonsense myth the Championship is something it is not. Every league is close due the fact 9 places are taken up with relegation and promotion positions so for the vast majority of teams in any one season, you are going to be close to one or the other almost constantly until the last group of games with a 3 points for a win scenario. Or put another way, last season, with ten games to go, a team who had 51 points would have been relegated if they lost ten in a row, or got in the play offs if they had won ten in a row. So for 30 games of the season you can have a silly argument that you are going to be relegated or be in the playoffs. what is clear, you want to get 50 points in the bag as soon as possible . 

City have 4 points in 3 games. You cannot draw any conclusions  August tends to start like that anyway, a bit hit and miss before sides get into the season. 

 From the outside he seems on track on a results basis for a mid table finish if you want to take 3 games in isolation. Lets see where we are first week of October. 16 points or so and all under control . Progress has to be shown  this season. There is no need to argue as fans, as the facts will be laid bare and excuses no longer an option. 

It's funny because things can change so quickly.

After 97 minutes we are looking at 3 pts from 3 games, and on a 2 game losing run.  However, getting that equaliser makes 4 from 3 look so much better.

Last season we were 6 pts from 4 games heading into the 5th match v Villa (synergies?).  Had we lost from 1-0 down it would've been P5 W2 L3 Pts6, yet we won and it became 5-3-2-9 and third place I think.

We could win the next two and be 5-3-1-1-10, yet could just as easily be 5-1-1-3-4 or maybe 5-1-2-2-5.  We are (being City) likely to lose to Millwall and beat Villa.

Difficult to form too much of an opinion, so I'll remain optimistic that we are heading for 12-16th ish!

[Jacki]

11 hours ago, robc said:

I was at the game last night and I think Ole's analysis is absolutely spot on. As Dean Smith said too, City were outclassed for most of the game and it was ludicrous for our manager to claim that we deserved a point. There were a few under-performers in our team but for the most part it was the formation that we played that was responsible.

It was obvious to all in my immediate circle as we sat watching the game that City were going to concede a goal given the amount of pressure that we were under, and it was a miracle that we got to the interval holding on to our lead. We all thought that Johnson would make changes at half time to address the fact that we were being overrun in midfield but not a bit of it. Instead the onslaught continued and only when we had conceded and looked ready to fold did he bring on his first subs. Whoever would have thought that Bobby Reid would be our lone striker for 10 minutes? Extraordinary as that was, we then an 18 year old making his debut to beef up our attack as we had by then gone 2-1 down. Credit to the boys that they equalised but only because Brentford retreated and got nervous. On another day, and without an inspired Frankie, despite his appalling distribution, we would have been thrashed.

For me, it was another completely clueless performance by the manager. As others have said, we still do not appear to have a Plan B. Lee J has never resolved the dilemma of how to play 3 in midfield. It cost us the services of Lee Tomlin in my view. I personally would have thought it was worthwhile considering playing 3-5-2 it at times away from home in particular especially given that we have now got 4 or 5 decent centre-backs.  I understand that the criticism of this system is that it leaves you vulnerable down the flanks but I've never understood why when you play 3-5-2 both wing backs have to be up field at the same time? Surely if only one goes forward, the remaining four defenders can adjust themselves across the pitch accordingly?

Whatever, unless our manager can find a way to organise the team to respond effectively against the sort of onslaught they faced last night I have no confidence at all that we are not in for another relegation fight. Lee Johnson must get a whole let better at responding to the game unfolding in front of him. Other managers seem a whole lot better at it - consider Redknapp against us.

Totally agree with this. It was as plain as day that we were getting completely overrun from 10 minutes in. There wave after wave of Brentford attacks and near misses, and it was nothing short of staggering that we hadn't conceded by half time. Like you, I was certain we would make a change at HT to counteract them, and when we didn't it was inevitable that they would score. I bet Brentford couldn't believe their luck when we came out unchanged  

I'm trying to stay neutral on LJ for now. He's the manager and at the end of last season he oversaw a run of results none of us saw coming under huge pressure. But he has to show some evidence that he's learnt from all of that, especially away from home where our record has been lamentable. Carry on producing performances like the other night on our travels and we'll find ourselves struggling once again. 

[Olé]

15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Make you right about a lack of Plans B & C however

One other point on the total lack of a plan B. I found myself frustrated at our pre-season fixture list which was extremely easy and had the feel of creating flat-track bullies out of the players. I didn't go to any of them, but can anyone comment on the extent to which we experimented with shape and tactics? I have an awful feeling (based simply on the quality of opposition most of the time) that we simply used it to vindicate Johnson's preferred pattern of play for this season.

Nothing wrong with deeply entrenching a style of play, but those games are also an opportunity to prepare your alternatives. More than that, what do you actually learn about playing your preferred tactics against easy sids? I'm sure I've read about really successful seasons for clubs borne out of the need for a complete adjustment in pre-season after a harsh lesson was learned. Losing is not something to make a habit of, but in pre-season sometimes it's more valuable than winning.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, Olé said:

One other point on the total lack of a plan B. I found myself frustrated at our pre-season fixture list which was extremely easy and had the feel of creating flat-track bullies out of the players. I didn't go to any of them, but can anyone comment on the extent to which we experimented with shape and tactics? I have an awful feeling (based simply on the quality of opposition most of the time) that we simply used it to vindicate Johnson's preferred pattern of play for this season.

Nothing wrong with deeply entrenching a style of play, but those games are also an opportunity to prepare your alternatives. More than that, what do you actually learn about playing your preferred tactics against easy sids? I'm sure I've read about really successful seasons for clubs borne out of the need for a complete adjustment in pre-season after a harsh lesson was learned. Losing is not something to make a habit of, but in pre-season sometimes it's more valuable than winning.

LJ has managed 227 professional matches mate. He will have been in the same 'match situation' many times over. No doubt when he was at Oldham and Barnsley there were situations where, like on Tuesday, he was watching his team get battered. If he hasn't learnt that he needs to change something in order to change the pattern of play by now; will he ever? We put in a poor display and got overrun by Brentford in April, same has happened (if not they were in fact more dominant on Tuesday) again. What did he learn from the performance in April? Why weren't we better prepared this time?

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, Olé said:

One other point on the total lack of a plan B. I found myself frustrated at our pre-season fixture list which was extremely easy and had the feel of creating flat-track bullies out of the players. I didn't go to any of them, but can anyone comment on the extent to which we experimented with shape and tactics? I have an awful feeling (based simply on the quality of opposition most of the time) that we simply used it to vindicate Johnson's preferred pattern of play for this season.

Nothing wrong with deeply entrenching a style of play, but those games are also an opportunity to prepare your alternatives. More than that, what do you actually learn about playing your preferred tactics against easy sids? I'm sure I've read about really successful seasons for clubs borne out of the need for a complete adjustment in pre-season after a harsh lesson was learned. Losing is not something to make a habit of, but in pre-season sometimes it's more valuable than winning.

Fully agree. I didn't make any either but I suspect what you say is quite correct. Thought Twente could/should have been a decent test, but I don't know if they're as good as they were. I still think he should have or should start drilling them in a Plan A, Plan B type 11v11 in training. 1st half 2nd half type thing More than that, he should have done this in the summer.

I agree with the thrust though, more can definitely be learned in a loss vs strong opposition than FTB vs weak sides. LJ...seems too slow to react and as for proactive game management well none really exists.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Fully agree.

I didn't make any either but I suspect what you say is quite correct. Thought Twente could/should have been a decent test, but I don't know if they're as good as they were.

I still think he should have or should start drilling them in a Plan A, Plan B type 11v11 in training. 1st half 2nd half type thing More than that, he should have done this in the summer.

I agree with the thrust though, more can definitely be learned in a loss vs strong opposition than FTB vs weak sides.

LJ...seems too slow to react and as for proactive game management well none really exists.

 

'Proactive game management'?  Wassat then?  Whatever happened to 11 v 11, jumpers for goalposts isn't it?

[1bristolcity]

It was a football match, they were at home desperate for points because they had lost two previously, we dropped back too deep in trying to defend a lead, that failed...they then dropped back too deep trying to defend a lead...that failed too. 

 

It was a game of football, nothing more nothing less.

[maxjak]

59 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

It was a football match, they were at home desperate for points because they had lost two previously, we dropped back too deep in trying to defend a lead, that failed...they then dropped back too deep trying to defend a lead...that failed too. 

 

It was a game of football, nothing more nothing less.

Sorry.........but thats just glib nonsense.  You obviously do  not grasp the point, that in depth analysis of every nuance and tactical adjustment is paramount to an understanding of LJ;s tactical game plan, he is the general who stands above the battle field ( Alright!! Dug Out), and tweaks, adjusts and deliberates every turn and shade of the games pattern............Yeah Right, if only!!?

[cheshire_red]

1 hour ago, 1bristolcity said:

It was a football match, they were at home desperate for points because they had lost two previously, we dropped back too deep in trying to defend a lead, that failed...they then dropped back too deep trying to defend a lead...that failed too. 

 

It was a game of football, nothing more nothing less.

So we might as well all just go up The Downs and pick any game of kick and rush to watch . How very simplistic, supporters pay hard cash to watch BCFC and therefore deserve a Manager/Head Coach who fits the job description. So far that isn't happening

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

12 minutes ago, cheshire_red said:

So we might as well all just go up The Downs and pick any game of kick and rush to watch . How very simplistic, supporters pay hard cash to watch BCFC and therefore deserve a Manager/Head Coach who fits the job description. So far that isn't happening

I'm a supporter and I therefore pay hard cash to watch BCFC and I deserve to be entertained and so far this season I am being entertained.  Lee Johnson does fit the job description, and we will have to wait and see if he is a success.  If we progress this season, then he will have achieved that.  I think we have the most exciting squad at the Gate for years - possibly since the golden young team of the 1970s, so I'm struggling to see what he is doing wrong in broad terms.  Of course everyone can argue about his decisions on a day to day basis, all managers have to put up with that, but no issues about him fitting the job description as far as I can see.  City are playing a long game in terms of strategy, and unfortunately very many fans seem to only be able to assess progress one match at the time.  We can't compete with the big boys in terms of spending power, so we can't buy success, and what we are doing seems the right way to try to succeed, but it isn't going to happen overnight.

[cheshire_red]

Nobody is expecting it to happen overnight however the three transfer windows are nearly complete. Whether the squad is as good as any since the 70's is a matter of opinion and I don't share yours, yet. I'd suggest the squad which nearly gained promotion to the Prem was better. LJ has a long way to go until he fits my criteria of a good Head Coach / Manager and hasn't improved any since the day he walked in to the job.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

36 minutes ago, cheshire_red said:

Nobody is expecting it to happen overnight however the three transfer windows are nearly complete. Whether the squad is as good as any since the 70's is a matter of opinion and I don't share yours, yet. I'd suggest the squad which nearly gained promotion to the Prem was better. LJ has a long way to go until he fits my criteria of a good Head Coach / Manager and hasn't improved any since the day he walked in to the job.

What, with a strike force of Enoch Showunmi, Darren Byfield and Lee Trundle?  A top scorer (Byfield) at the end of the season with eight goals?  The way he is going, Bobby could have that by mid-September!

Fair play to the squad of 2007/08 for having such a great run, but my god they didn't half over-achieve!

[cheshire_red]

Oh there were many weaknesses as there are now. Consider they finished far higher than we did last season or will do this season. And you're trying to convince me this side is better? I will concede the division is stronger now with far better players all round but if we finish top half with the side it is now and with LJ in charge I will be surprised

[jayjay]

Several have cast doubts on Mr Johnson having a Plan B. That is a gross calumny!

His Plan B is "Continue with Plan A".

[1bristolcity]

1 hour ago, cheshire_red said:

So we might as well all just go up The Downs and pick any game of kick and rush to watch . How very simplistic, supporters pay hard cash to watch BCFC and therefore deserve a Manager/Head Coach who fits the job description. So far that isn't happening

Ahh I see, the agenda against the Head Coach, not football is your real interest...well you are in good company on here, the same old cycle repeats itself, we win and all the LJ knockers report papering over the cracks, we grab a late draw and City fans are supposed to feel embarrassed by that and call out that they were robbed...this constant LJ knocking is getting tiresome, as a player he had it, as a coach he is still getting it, and as to why I don't for the life of me understand why?  Perhaps it's because he don't talk like us, he dress sense is not to everyone's liking, or the view that he didn't actually deserve to be in the team let alone manage us...because he is Gary's son.

I don't know what it is,  and I am pretty sure neither do you and the rest of those that rush to like every negative comment about the head coach, the team or anything Bristol City...to those I really wish you would just trot off and find something else to do/ 'support' because as sure as eggs are eggs you are not City.

 

 

[cheshire_red]

You've only seen what you want to see. Tunnel vision

[1bristolcity]

20 minutes ago, cheshire_red said:

You've only seen what you want to see. Tunnel vision

Then it's a long tunnel I have been on, I know our shortcomings, every team has them, but the real issues here is nothing to do with that, it's the vendetta against LJ, and still I wait for a reply that denies that or gives me sound reasons as to why that should be. 

[cheshire_red]

Vendetta? No not from me just a realist who has witnessed no improvement in tactics, man management, game planning or game management

[1bristolcity]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I'm a supporter and I therefore pay hard cash to watch BCFC and I deserve to be entertained and so far this season I am being entertained.  Lee Johnson does fit the job description, and we will have to wait and see if he is a success.  If we progress this season, then he will have achieved that.  I think we have the most exciting squad at the Gate for years - possibly since the golden young team of the 1970s, so I'm struggling to see what he is doing wrong in broad terms.  Of course everyone can argue about his decisions on a day to day basis, all managers have to put up with that, but no issues about him fitting the job description as far as I can see.  City are playing a long game in terms of strategy, and unfortunately very many fans seem to only be able to assess progress one match at the time.  We can't compete with the big boys in terms of spending power, so we can't buy success, and what we are doing seems the right way to try to succeed, but it isn't going to happen overnight.

They cannot give any credence to their stance, as you say he fits the bill perfectly, just need to keep evolving, and improving, besides he is going nowhere any time soon.