LJ - 3 Transfer Windows

[brad blit]

A quote ringed in my ears this morning when looking through the forum....

LJ May 2016 (3 months after joining) "To get a true reflection of one of my teams it'll probably take 3 windows but we'll look to fast track that"

We are now 2 weeks away from the end of this 3rd window and i ask - has this been completed (i.e. Is the squad balanced), can anyone give a brief description of what they believe a Lee Johnson team is, and has the team made a recognisable improvement since Feb 2016 when he joined?

[DaveF]

We'll probably have to wait until the end of his 3rd transfer window to properly discuss this...

[Shtanley]

It's a bit peak when 2 of the strikers he's signed are injured. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

8 minutes ago, DaveF said:

We'll probably have to wait until the end of his 3rd transfer window to properly discuss this...

Since Feb. then, it was well publicised the 3rd window was brought forward to January.

[Phileas Fogg]

Naive of him to make time-specific statements like this.

LJ detractors won't give him an inch and him saying stuff like this just provides ammunition to be used against him. 

I think we'll see a more careful and guarded LJ this season, probably for the best.

[downendcity]

I think the LJ team is looking like a high pressing team that plays attractive attacking football.

Interesting listening to Talksport this morning and Nigel Clough talking about this time of the season, saying that at Liverpool Ronny Moran used to say that players were not properly match fit until 8-10 games into the season. If we play a high pressing game then players' fitness is crucial ( have seen comments about some players running out of steam - Fammy particularly - after an hour or so). If so, then it might be difficult to sustain such a style for most of the 90 minutes until we are a few more game into the season.

If so, then LJ needs to find the alternative for when we do run out of puff, but also, as on Tuesday, when teams counter and he needs to change the style to something different - could he look at using 3-5-2?

[Mr Popodopolous]

I think it's more balanced certainly numerically than it has been, one or two more tweaks and it will be even more.

Has more depth, options...question is, is he the man to use them well?

I think a 4-3-3 could suit us, thought so for a while. Seems odd given our start to the season and the promise to date, but I honestly think a 4-3-3 should be worth a serious look.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think it's more balanced certainly numerically than it has been, one or two more tweaks and it will be even more.

Has more depth, options...question is, is he the man to use them well?

I think a 4-3-3 could suit us, thought so for a while. Seems odd given our start to the season and the promise to date, but I honestly think a 4-3-3 should be worth a serious look.

I quite like our squad really; there's a few positions we could do with an upgrade in but overall I feel it's pretty balanced and strong.

Shame Đurić and Taylor aren't fit.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

I quite like our squad really; there's a few positions we could do with an upgrade in but overall I feel it's pretty balanced and strong.

Shame Đurić and Taylor aren't fit.

Agreed. Having that depth gives us good options. Well balanced as you say, and somewhat stronger than the past.

[Red Army 87]

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think it's more balanced certainly numerically than it has been, one or two more tweaks and it will be even more.

Has more depth, options...question is, is he the man to use them well?

I think a 4-3-3 could suit us, thought so for a while. Seems odd given our start to the season and the promise to date, but I honestly think a 4-3-3 should be worth a serious look.

I like the idea of high press, and I think that 433 would give us additional reaource to press whilst being strong in midfield. Either that or a 343 formation like Chelsea where you have 2 creative players behind the striker.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Red Army 87 said:

I like the idea of high press, and I think that 433 would give us additional reaource to press whilst being strong in midfield. Either that or a 343 formation like Chelsea where you have 2 creative players behind the striker.

Could even do away with wingers sometimes, and play 4-3-3 with two creative number 10 types- Paterson and Reid- behind the striker?

Full backs would and could bomb on, provide width and we all know creative types like to drift...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

49 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Naive of him to make time-specific statements like this.

LJ detractors won't give him an inch and him saying stuff like this just provides ammunition to be used against him. 

I think we'll see a more careful and guarded LJ this season, probably for the best.

Or the LJ detractors of whom you speak may well say stuff like, (and I understand about the injuries). The following list of the jury is still out signings.

Taylor.

ODowda.

Engvall.

Moore.

Patterson.

Đurić.

Magnússon.

ONeil.

Hegeler.

PS:- I am intrigued to hear what happened to the 'high press' for the last 60 minutes at Birmingham and for 86 minutes at Brentford?

 

[MarkRed!]

Firstly, I think it is worth noting that LJ inherited a squad that was light on numbers. Thus, it needed to be expanded.

I personally think his signings have largely been a "miss" and the "Jury is Out" on a lot of them, some though I dont feel were all of his own making:

1. Abraham - massive HIT but not a permanent signing. Thus, we are now really light on numbers because of our total reliance on his goals. 

2. Geifer - had the presence but kicking was as bad as FF.  MISS

3. Matthews - diabolical second season with us after his loan. What the hell went wrong. MISS

4. Tomlin - flattered to deceive after his successful loan. A huge disappointment and not the talisman we all hoped for. MISS

5. Đurić - appears injury prone thus too early to judge. JURY IS OUT.

6. Taylor - has looked good but too early to judge. Needs a good season. JURY IS OUT.

7. Hegeler - Apparently cannot play in a midfield 2. Not sure about his role. Looks the part but too early to judge for me. JURY IS OUT.

8. O'Neill - miss. The experienced pro we needed is not Mr O'Neill. After a promising start has faded to the fringes. Rumoured bust up with LJ. MISS

9. Brownhill - I like Brownhill but I am not sure about him being played on the right side of midfield. He is a more central figure for me. However, a good signing. HIT. 

10. O'Dowda - I like him but too early to judge.  JURY IS OUT.

11. Engvall - massive disappointment. Difficult to tell if he is a hit or a miss.  May come good but why on earth has he not been given game time. LJ's judgement here must be questioned. JURY IS OUT. 

12. Moore - described by LJ as "playing like Bobby Moore" then had a horrible game at Ipswich to disappear completely from the team. I think he could be a player for us but too early to judge. JURY IS OUT.

13. Pisano - looks a good signing and an upgrade on Little. Although a little early I would say HIT.

14. Wright - may not be everyone's cup of tea and gives away silly fouls. But cannot fault his energy or commitment. HIT. 

15. Famara D - looks a beast. Think he a great signing. Although too early, I would say HIT. 

16. Lucic - promising GK. Think he will be our Number 1 but not fair to rate him at this stage. JURY IS OUT. 

17. Goldbourne - played a key role and then has disappeared. MISS. 

18 Paterson - not sure. A matchwinner but went missing for most of last season. Allegedly involved in a bust up with LJ. There is potential here and I think he will be a good signing for us. HIT.  

19. Magnússon - started off so well. Has now vanished from the first team. Not sure why. JURY IS OUT. 

I think LJ has refreshed the squad and by and large of the 19 players I have noted - 

6 HITS 

5 MISS

8 JURY IS OUT

 

Not sure what others think. We have better Championship players than Cotterill had and this is why the bulk of the League 1 winners have left the club. To be fair to LJ it does take time to gel a squad and this may be the cause of our up and down form. We shall see. 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Or the LJ detractors of whom you speak may well say stuff like, (and I understand about the injuries). The following list of the jury is still out signings.

Taylor.

ODowda.

Engvall.

Moore.

Patterson.

Đurić.

Magnússon.

ONeil.

Hegeler.

 

Thought you might reply to me. Yeah, of course they might. 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Thought you might reply to me. Yeah, of course they might. 

 

I replied because it's a forum aka discussion site, no other agenda honest.

All I want is the best for BCFC and my view is, as much as I want LJ or whoever is in charge to succeed, could you imagine any other manager in our long list of managers in the past 10/20 years being afforded the same amount of excuses/free passes and blind optimism?.

BCFC need consistency in all of it's dealings, operations and mainly in it's attempt to become a fully functioning championship team on the field and I cannot see that at this moment in time, yes the season is early but I still last season problems on the field.

The thread is about transfer windows and even you have to admit that for BCFC that is a pretty impressively long and expensive list for so little progress?.

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I replied because it's a forum aka discussion site, no other agenda honest.

Just feels like you've been replying to me in particular these last few days but ok, you're an intelligent poster so i'll take it as a compliment 

4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

All I want is the best for BCFC and my view is, as much as I want LJ or whoever is in charge to succeed, could you imagine any other manager in our long list of managers in the past 10/20 years being afforded the same amount of excuses/free passes and blind optimism?.

Nope, no other managers would've survived the run last season. 

4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

BCFC need consistency in all of it's dealings, operations and mainly in it's attempt to become a fully functioning championship team on the field and I cannot see that at this moment in time, yes the season is early but I still last season problems on the field.

Agree there are problems, but I feel it's difficult to say really how we're going to do until we've played more games.

4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

The thread is about transfer windows and even you have to admit that for BCFC that is a pretty impressively long and expensive list for so little progress?.

Depends how you view it. We've changed our transfer strategy so many times over the years its to measure.

At present it looks like we're going for high-risk / high-reward on players that could be good investments but it won't always work.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Just feels like you've been replying to me in particular these last few days but ok, you're an intelligent poster so i'll take it as a compliment 

 

 

 

it's nice to have a diverse discussion without aggressive overtones (from both sides of that divide).

[EmersonsRed]

30 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Or the LJ detractors of whom you speak may well say stuff like, (and I understand about the injuries). The following list of the jury is still out signings.

Taylor.

ODowda.

Engvall.

Moore.

Patterson.

Đurić.

Magnússon.

ONeil.

Hegeler.

PS:- I am intrigued to hear what happened to the 'high press' for the last 60 minutes at Birmingham and for 86 minutes at Brentford?

 

Patterson a bit harsh IMO.

Rest I agree with - some aren't going to work though. Cotts for example, Golbourne, Garita, Ryan Fredericks (if we site personal problems as why he left so quickly, we can rub off Engvall as it is rumoured he has personal problems settling in to England), Agard(17 goals in 73 games for someone we paid a million for).

Failed transfers happen. We're at a point now where we rely less on loans over all to fill the squad and we're trying to buy and develop within. O'Neil was bought for experience to try and replace Wade. The average age of the rest is quite young I'd presume? We're going to have more failed signings over time I feel. Under any manager, and I don't mean this to try and defend LJ at all costs by any means, now the stadium is done we're putting more money into transfers instead of using the loan system as much. Think we can judge by December 31 whether he has succeeded in the 3 transfer periods.

@MarkRed! Golbourne was a Cotts signing. Take a miss off.

[Phileas Fogg]

24 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

it's nice to have a diverse discussion without aggressive overtones (from both sides of that divide).

I agree - ultimately almost everyone wants the club (and by proxy LJ) to succeed.

I have no problem with people having concerns about the manager or squad, I have plenty. It's totally acceptable and also inevitable after last season.

My problem lies with those who I feel their agenda goes beyond not really supporting a manager. Those that have made it personal and want to feel vindicated by things going wrong and LJ failing. As I said on another thread, difficult to prove those people exist as it's not something they'd admit to.. but I'm certain about it. 

There's a few on this forum but a real real minority as the general membership of OTIB is fairly intelligent and balanced. Far more prevalent on Facebook/Twitter.

 

[Red Army 75]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Naive of him to make time-specific statements like this.

LJ detractors won't give him an inch and him saying stuff like this just provides ammunition to be used against him. 

I think we'll see a more careful and guarded LJ this season, probably for the best.

Spot on PF . I think LJ has said numerous naive statements. And this is one of them. Giving himself time. But fans don't forget. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

10 minutes ago, EmersonsRed said:

Patterson a bit harsh IMO.

Rest I agree with - some aren't going to work though. Cotts for example, Golbourne, Garita, Ryan Fredericks (if we site personal problems as why he left so quickly, we can rub off Engvall as it is rumoured he has personal problems settling in to England), Agard(17 goals in 73 games for someone we paid a million for).

Failed transfers happen. We're at a point now where we rely less on loans over all to fill the squad and we're trying to buy and develop within. O'Neil was bought for experience to try and replace Wade. The average age of the rest is quite young I'd presume? We're going to have more failed signings over time I feel. Under any manager, and I don't mean this to try and defend LJ at all costs by any means, now the stadium is done we're putting more money into transfers instead of using the loan system as much. Think we can judge by December 31 whether he has succeeded in the 3 transfer periods.

@MarkRed! Golbourne was a Cotts signing. Take a miss off.

Patterson is unconvincing IMO and a defensive liability imo.

Golbourne was not a Cotts signing, that is totally wrong, he was signed during the period after Cotts was sacked and LJ replaced him.

And for the record one OTIB ITK luvvie publicly stated on this forum after LJ was given the job, that in fact in the week leading up to LJ's appointment he had instructed the board to sign him and that he was an LJ signing.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Spot on PF . I think LJ has said numerous naive statements. And this is one of them. Giving himself time. But fans don't forget. 

His intentions were good I think. He is trying to show supporters an insight into the club we don't usually see, he tries to be open and candid in interviews which is pretty rare for a manager. I love the insight but feel a few things he's said have been poor judgement including singling out of players.

He is still learning on the job and will cut things like this out as fans don't forget! You can see why experienced older heads like Cotterill give far less away.

[cidercity1987]

Watching us struggle on Tuesday made me question what improvements we have made to the squad during LJ's tenure.

Cotterill's team:

Fielding

Ayling Flint Williams

Little Smith Pack Bryan

Freeman

Wilbraham Kodjia

Johnson's team

Fielding

Pisano Baker Wright Bryan

Brownhill Smith Pack Paterson

Diedhiou Reid

 

We look stronger in defence, very similar in midfield and weaker in attack.

There has been a lot of expenditure for no real improvement imo. And I am in no way a LJ critic.

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Watching us struggle on Tuesday made me question what improvements we have made to the squad during LJ's tenure.

Cotterill's team:

Fielding

Ayling Flint Williams

Little Smith Pack Bryan

Freeman

Wilbraham Kodjia

Johnson's team

Fielding

Pisano Baker Wright Bryan

Brownhill Smith Pack Paterson

Diedhiou Reid

 

We look stronger in defence, very similar in midfield and weaker in attack.

There has been a lot of expenditure for no real improvement imo. And I am in no way a LJ critic.

Good point, I would say the squad is stronger overall though. Also, that example considers the Cotterill side with no injuries at all. We've got 2 forwards out injured who would be competing for first team slots, maybe even starting.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I agree - ultimately almost everyone wants the club (and by proxy LJ) to succeed.

I have no problem with people having concerns about the manager or squad, I have plenty. It's totally acceptable and also inevitable after last season.

My problem lies with those who I feel their agenda goes beyond not really supporting a manager. Those that have made it personal and want to feel vindicated by things going wrong and LJ failing. As I said on another thread, difficult to prove those people exist as it's not something they'd admit to.. but I'm certain about it. 

There's a few on this forum but a real real minority as the general membership of OTIB is fairly intelligent and balanced. Far more prevalent on Facebook/Twitter.

 

There is similar amount on here would find an excuse for him if he took a shit on the halfway line during a game, there is nonsense on both sides.

But I would say he has still got a hell of a lot to prove and I believe time is running out.

[EmersonsRed]

28 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Patterson is unconvincing IMO and a defensive liability imo.

Golbourne was not a Cotts signing, that is totally wrong, he was signed during the period after Cotts was sacked and LJ replaced him.

And for the record one OTIB ITK luvvie publicly stated on this forum after LJ was given the job, that in fact in the week leading up to LJ's appointment he had instructed the board to sign him and that he was an LJ signing.

I stand corrected. Apologies. 

Do you not agree we have to give until end of Dec to decide whether the 3 transfer windows have worked?

Also, I have asked this to many 'Johnson Out' members and got no answer. But you seem reasonable enough to answer it. Where do you genuinely believe we should be as a club? Where do we belong? If we finish mid table, is that a success?

[Phileas Fogg]

38 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

There is similar amount on here would find an excuse for him if he took a shit on the halfway line during a game, there is nonsense on both sides.

But I would say he has still got a hell of a lot to prove and I believe time is running out.

Can't argue with that. I think the majority on Otib are in-between both sides of the ridiculousness which is good.

[David Brent]

Well after 3 windows we have the most expensive, and arguably best, squad we've ever had. So, he had better do something with it.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

49 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

There is similar amount on here would find an excuse for him if he took a shit on the halfway line during a game, there is nonsense on both sides.

But I would say he has still got a hell of a lot to prove and I believe time is running out.

Sorry, I have to respond to that.  I don't think I have ever seen a post on this forum from anyone that suggests that they would forgive Johnson anything.  The two camps, from my perspective are those who seem to go out of their way to  jump on Johnson, even with the most flimsy pretext; and those who say he should be given a chance (and are then dismissed as 'happy clappers').  I think everyone agrees he has a lot to prove, it's just that some people are prepared to give him longer than others to prove it.

And there is no doubt in my mind that some people on this forum have an irrational dislike of Johnson (which many voiced from day one of his tenure) which has not been seen since Pulis was manager, and try as I might I cannot fathom the reason for that.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Sorry, I have to respond to that.  I don't think I have ever seen a post on this forum from anyone that suggests that they would forgive Johnson anything.  The two camps, from my perspective are those who seem to go out of their way to  jump on Johnson, even with the most flimsy pretext; and those who say he should be given a chance (and are then dismissed as 'happy clappers').  I think everyone agrees he has a lot to prove, it's just that some people are prepared to give him longer than others to prove it.

And there is no doubt in my mind that some people on this forum have an irrational dislike of Johnson (which many voiced from day one of his tenure) which has not been seen since Pulis was manager, and try as I might I cannot fathom the reason for that.

I genuinely believe part of it stems from people not liking him as a player and not understanding why he was picked in the side - it's a ridiculous idea which doesn't have any relevance to his management ability.