LJ - 3 Transfer Windows

[Nogbad the Bad]

24 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Obvious really mate, forget he was former player, former managers son........His managerial record before City was poor....his managerial record at City is poor.....fans have every right to question why he is was employed in the first place and going by last season why the hell he is still employed!

Exactly.

 

[EmersonsRed]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

No confusion - obviously labelling Barnsley fans as 'inbreds' is a sign of your superior intellect and intelligence  unlike those of us of low intelligence , whoever that generalisation was aimed at

Please see my edit to your edit.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, EmersonsRed said:

I stand corrected. Apologies. 

Do you not agree we have to give until end of Dec to decide whether the 3 transfer windows have worked?

Also, I have asked this to many 'Johnson Out' members and got no answer. But you seem reasonable enough to answer it. Where do you genuinely believe we should be as a club? Where do we belong? If we finish mid table, is that a success?

I say review his position after 10 games and if there is no consistency of sorts, go forward on a game by game basis, if we find the consistency we need review every block of 10 games.

Putting a December deadline on it might see us in a desperate position, going forward as above well we know that LJ's record shows big losing streaks and big winning streaks.

[Red Exile]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

I get the impression from the forum, that certain fans don't particularly warm to LJ because...in no particular order...

1 He replaced Cotts.

2 He has been deemed to have been treated fairer than Cotts.

3 Allegedly had more money given to him than Cotts.

4 Friends with the Lansdown family

5 Works alongside MA

6 Isn't the recognised/named manager with experience, that certain fans desire.

 

The one thing certain fans seem to fail to recognise when talking about bringing established managers here, and what they could do for this Club better than LJ, is that those managers would have to agree to buy into SL's way of doing things.

THAT...is the biggest issue with this Club.

Any manager/coach has to do it his way...agree to the blue print.

You couldn't have a Warnock, Bruce or a Redknapp or such like here...as they do things their way.

 

That is why LJ is here...because he has agreed to do it SL's way. And it is something that has been spoken about by them for a very long time. It's been a plan.

 

If LJ is ever replaced...it will be by someone of the same ilk.

Spot on - and good to have your perspective back on OTIB. I fear that you are correct...and that despite all the huff and puff we are going nowhere, slowly. If Lee Johnson's track record of achievement in football is unimpressive, Steve Lansdown's, given all the time and money, isn't up to much either.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Sorry, I have to respond to that.  I don't think I have ever seen a post on this forum from anyone that suggests that they would forgive Johnson anything.  The two camps, from my perspective are those who seem to go out of their way to  jump on Johnson, even with the most flimsy pretext; and those who say he should be given a chance (and are then dismissed as 'happy clappers').  I think everyone agrees he has a lot to prove, it's just that some people are prepared to give him longer than others to prove it.

And there is no doubt in my mind that some people on this forum have an irrational dislike of Johnson (which many voiced from day one of his tenure) which has not been seen since Pulis was manager, and try as I might I cannot fathom the reason for that.

Not by me, but I have to say the way some people have batted away the last 2 matches and their similarity to our form of last season as 'early days' etc.  and the 9 signings where the jury is out if you add in Geiffer and Matthews we have a complete team and the accusation that people are expecting too much, when in reality that expectation has mainly been fuelled by LJ and interviews himself, is strange as well, I just see the evidence stacking up and I remain unconvinced.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

I get the impression from the forum, that certain fans don't particularly warm to LJ because...in no particular order...

1 He replaced Cotts.

2 He has been deemed to have been treated fairer than Cotts.

3 Allegedly had more money given to him than Cotts.

4 Friends with the Lansdown family

5 Works alongside MA

6 Isn't the recognised/named manager with experience, that certain fans desire.

 

The one thing certain fans seem to fail to recognise when talking about bringing established managers here, and what they could do for this Club better than LJ, is that those managers would have to agree to buy into SL's way of doing things.

THAT...is the biggest issue with this Club.

Any manager/coach has to do it his way...agree to the blue print.

You couldn't have a Warnock, Bruce or a Redknapp or such like here...as they do things their way.

 

That is why LJ is here...because he has agreed to do it SL's way. And it is something that has been spoken about by them for a very long time. It's been a plan.

 

If LJ is ever replaced...it will be by someone of the same ilk.

I agree with the conclusion and that will always be a problem of course it will, but as far as the highlighted portion is concerned, I would just like to point out by just taking one name out of that list our dear friend 'Arry, LJ has been allowed to bring a huge amount of players ala 'Arry, 9 of whom have been mentioned as the jury is firmly out by quite a few on here and yet if you ignore Baker who is originally Cotts and later LJ signing, only 5 of Tuesday's starting line up were LJ signings, I am interested to understand how this fits into SL's plan?.

 

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I agree with the conclusion and that will always be a problem of course it will, but as far as the highlighted portion is concerned, I would just like to point out by just taking one name out of that list our dear friend 'Arry, LJ has been allowed to bring a huge amount of players ala 'Arry, 9 of whom have been mentioned as the jury is firmly out by quite a few on here and yet if you ignore Baker who is originally Cotts and later LJ signing, only 5 of Tuesday's starting line up were LJ signings, I am interested to understand how this fits into SL's plan?.

 

I agree EMB...he has brought in a fair amount of players...but players, that imo, fit in with SL's blueprint.

Some for the future, some for somewhere in between ( who need time to develop and adapt, but have been bought before someone else gets in ), and some for the present.

The majority of managers/coach's who are left to their own devises, will bring in players predominantly for the present.

Managers know on average that they get approx. 18 months in tenure. Their mindset is to achieve as much as possible, in a short space of time. For the short term. To reflect well on their own CV for the next job.

Not many managers would agree to do what LJ is doing. That's why SL didn't sack him after his poor run of results.

Tbh...I'm glad SL bucked the trend of sacking. So are many 'experts' in the football world.

Sacking doesn't achieve anything...approx. 80% of Clubs in the Championship prove that every season.

LJ will always get stick...for being that manager that bucked the trend and didn't get the sack.

Whether LJ is the right man to do it SL's way, who knows...but I'm glad we aren't following the route of the majority of other clubs.

Trying to do it differently is a good idea imo. We can't compete financially with a majority of the Championship...so trying to do it another way makes sense to me. Finding a different edge.

Us and Brentford...trying things a little differently.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

12 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree EMB...he has brought in a fair amount of players...but players, that imo, fit in with SL's blueprint.

Some for the future, some for somewhere in between ( who need time to develop and adapt, but have been bought before someone else gets in ), and some for the present.

The majority of managers/coach's who are left to their own devises, will bring in players predominantly for the present.

Managers know on average that they get approx. 18 months in tenure. Their mindset is to achieve as much as possible, in a short space of time. For the short term. To reflect well on their own CV for the next job.

Not many managers would agree to do what LJ is doing. That's why SL didn't sack him after his poor run of results.

Tbh...I'm glad SL bucked the trend of sacking. So are many 'experts' in the football world.

Sacking doesn't achieve anything...approx. 80% of Clubs in the Championship prove that every season.

LJ will always get stick...for being that manager that bucked the trend and didn't get the sack.

Whether LJ is the right man to do it SL's way, who knows...but I'm glad we aren't following the route of the majority of other clubs.

Trying to do it differently is a good idea imo. We can't compete financially with a majority of the Championship...so trying to do it another way makes sense to me. Finding a different edge.

Us and Brentford...trying things a little differently.

Sorry Spud that was last seasons excuse, this season I thought we agreed that all bets are off, I will will give him a pass on the ones for the future (until next season) but the one's 'somewhere in between' need to step up this season and pretty quickly I would say LJ's position at AG is relying on it.

Because amongst all of the other problems many of his signings are simply not consistent enough, there will have to come a time when somebody says, enough already 30/40/50 games with the odd flash of brilliance but without consistency just doesn't cut it.

Blueprints are great and SL has ripped up several of those blueprints on quite a few different managers and started a new blueprint and then austerity and usually relegation follows.

And please do not forget the title of this thread, a title inspired by another LJ interview and not posters on here.

[cidered abroad]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 

He is still learning on the job and will cut things like this out as fans don't forget! You can see why experienced older heads like Cotterill give far less away.

My parents told me that if you give personal information to others, they will remember for many years, what you said and when you have forgotten what you told them.

A good lesson for LJ as a manager of people.

[Angmering Red]

Totally agree with Spudski on this, too many managers are in it for the 'quick fix' as they know they will be sacked if things go a bit Pete Tong, so they are unable to plan ahead, refreshing that we are appearing to be looking ahead. Last time I can remember having a young team like this with potential was early 70's and Alan Dicks.

 

Team v Brentford:

Bristol City: Fielding, Pisano, Wright, Baker, Bryan, Brownhill, K.Smith, Pack, Paterson, Reid, Diédhiou. Subs: Lucic, Magnússon, Hegeler, O’Neil, Eliasson, O’Dowda, Hinds.

Mention of only 5 LJ signings in the first 11, (Pisano, Wright, Baker, Brownhill, Paterson and Diedhiou..=6), no mention of the  7 on the subs bench!! Plus Đurić and Taylor injured and Reid who LJ has supported. Also Fielding and Pack signed by SOD, so just Korey left from Cotterells team.

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Sorry Spud that was last seasons excuse, this season I thought we agreed that all bets are off, I will will give him a pass on the ones for the future (until next season) but the one's 'somewhere in between' need to step up this season and pretty quickly I would say LJ's position at AG is relying on it.

Because amongst all of the other problems many of his signings are simply not consistent enough, there will have to come a time when somebody says, enough already 30/40/50 games with the odd flash of brilliance but without consistency just doesn't cut it.

Blueprints are great and SL has ripped up several of those blueprints on quite a few different managers and started a new blueprint and then austerity and usually relegation follows.

And please do not forget the title of this thread, a title inspired by another LJ interview and not posters on here.

What do you mean by Excuse EMB?  As long as we improve this season, surely that's progress?

As I said in an earlier post...our scouting has been playing catch up. There will be mistakes. Every manager has that. Not just LJ.

Most, wouldn't you agree, see us as a mid table team. Our position, results and even performances even at this early stage of the season reflect that.

I look at much bigger teams below us, and think, 'Crikey...what must their fans be saying'...

I also agree and said earlier... LJ was daft saying judge me on 3 transfer windows. He won't win that argument.

Tbh...it's not LJ I'm concerned about. I have my doubts about MA more so.

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, brad blit said:

Personally speaking of LJ's signings I would say only Baker (basing on previous loan too), Patterson (partially because of his low fee) and Brownhill were HITS, lots of question marks over others solely because we havnt seen enough of them (i.e., Đurić) and only possibly Engvall being a mistake. There are others like Magnússon and O'Dowda who are squad regulars but the jury are still out on them despite costing fair amount.... 

The squad looks good on paper but how many have delivered??? 

I think you make a good point in that you have to bring transfer fee (maybe perceived wages too) to judge the signings more accurately, but it's all still subjective.

I've taken the real name, club and nationality out to protect his identity 

Take John Hedgelayer the £250k signing from a mid table Prem side who'd become a bit part player, looking to play regularly.  He may not have hit the heights, but if you factor in the small fee, he's probably in the jury out camp, rather than miss...and perhaps he's trending towards a hit.

We are all a bit desperate to make our judgements, and once made, woe betide us allowing ourselves to change it.  Some want to make their judgement, having never seen him play, usually a negative "not good enough" judgement.

Some players just suit a club, sometimes for only a short period of time before resorting to type.  Some seem the most natural fit ever, and never hit the heights.  It's so difficult to know. 

[MarkRed!]

19 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Watching us struggle on Tuesday made me question what improvements we have made to the squad during LJ's tenure.

Cotterill's team:

Fielding

Ayling Flint Williams

Little Smith Pack Bryan

Freeman

Wilbraham Kodjia

Johnson's team

Fielding

Pisano Baker Wright Bryan

Brownhill Smith Pack Paterson

Diedhiou Reid

 

We look stronger in defence, very similar in midfield and weaker in attack.

There has been a lot of expenditure for no real improvement imo. And I am in no way a LJ critic.

 

 

I would agree 100% with you here. That is one of the reasons we should be critical of the millions spent on fringe players who have vanished. Far better to have spent that money on a player for the here and now, rather than a "one for the future". Plain to see that we need 1 or 2 upgrades both in midfield and upfront. Those positions have not been addressed. 

[Phileas Fogg]

9 minutes ago, MarkRed! said:

I would agree 100% with you here. That is one of the reasons we should be critical of the millions spent on fringe players who have vanished. Far better to have spent that money on a player for the here and now, rather than a "one for the future". Plain to see that we need 1 or 2 upgrades both in midfield and upfront. Those positions have not been addressed. 

Who's 'vanished'? All of the 'ones for the future' are still here!

[cidered abroad]

3 hours ago, MarkRed! said:

I would agree 100% with you here. That is one of the reasons we should be critical of the millions spent on fringe players who have vanished. Far better to have spent that money on a player for the here and now, rather than a "one for the future". Plain to see that we need 1 or 2 upgrades both in midfield and upfront. Those positions have not been addressed. 

And if all we do is to buy for today and ignore the future, we are just carrying on with what we've been doing for a long time. Signing players who are here for a couple of years and nearing the end of their career and so on. 

I'm supporting the philosophy that is now in place where we are recruiting younger players with the long term future in mind. I genuinely believe that it will bring us the rewards that we all wish for. A Club that begins to achieve consistently rather than the "One in Ten" syndrome that has existed since I started supporting City in 1950.

Where I feel we are not giving ourselves the best opportunity to do so, is in our coaching staff. All three are so new to coaching and management that far too many mistakes are being made. I don't really want a 'Arry or a Colin or a Bruce who's only methods are to buy for today. But somewhere in our coaching triumvirate, we could do with one who has been around the block enough times to provide some wisdom for the younger management members.

Whether that is a new number one to replace LJ or an addition to the three, I don't know but we need to do something or face the risk of sinking into the morass at the bottom of the table yet again.

[MarkRed!]

9 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

And if all we do is to buy for today and ignore the future, we are just carrying on with what we've been doing for a long time. Signing players who are here for a couple of years and nearing the end of their career and so on. 

I'm supporting the philosophy that is now in place where we are recruiting younger players with the long term future in mind. I genuinely believe that it will bring us the rewards that we all wish for. A Club that begins to achieve consistently rather than the "One in Ten" syndrome that has existed since I started supporting City in 1950.

Where I feel we are not giving ourselves the best opportunity to do so, is in our coaching staff. All three are so new to coaching and management that far too many mistakes are being made. I don't really want a 'Arry or a Colin or a Bruce who's only methods are to buy for today. But somewhere in our coaching triumvirate, we could do with one who has been around the block enough times to provide some wisdom for the younger management members.

Whether that is a new number one to replace LJ or an addition to the three, I don't know but we need to do something or face the risk of sinking into the morass at the bottom of the table yet again.

I certainly dont disagree with anything said here. I think the experienced coach is needed and is a good point. Very surprised we have not tried to get someone like Joe Jordan or Keith Millen back. Would Steven McClaren be interested in a coaching role? Probably not, but I do think an experienced head would have helped LJ last season. Having said all that, LJ appears to be following (and is happy to) the diktat from above, which is why he is still in a job and perhaps why he was given it in the first place. SC was not so compromising..... 

[Gert Mare]

Some reasoned debate from both sides of the fence and a sensible discussion about why some posters have an issue with some of the responses from those in the perceived opposite camp.

3 windows was probably in hindsight a bit of a foolish thing to say because some fans will take these statements literally.

This is the end of the 3rd transfer window. The squad now looks more like a Johnson squad as opposed to a hybrid Cotterill/Johnson squad. So you would assume that all of these players have the right DNA (the MA comment) to move the club forward on the pitch.

The squad in the main fits the criteria of what is required by our chief benefactor. This is very much now the foundations laid out for the plan.

Rome wasn't built in a day and these players being young should improve with experience and exposure to Championship football.

I was firmly in the Johnson Out camp last year because of the horrendous slide towards obscurity and an inability to get to grips with in game management. I.e. Throwing games away from winning positions.

However, we survived (just) so I am happy to give him a chance to go again with his full squad and I honestly believe that whilst there will be some strange results and performances I really believe that overall we will be in less trouble than we were last year. I don't dislike LJ as some (and I keep saying "some") of those in the Happy Clappy would believe. I reluctantly fell into the Cotterill Out camp when he failed to switch from 3-5-2 when it wasn't working and we were sinking along with making token 88th minute substitutions.

At the end of the day, if we are in or around the bottom 3 by November/Christmas time and if our performances become more and more like they were against Brentford as other clubs begin to study the videos and work us out, and if LJ fails to provide the right response to in game tactical changes by the opposition then I will be calling once again for Johnson to be Out.

But if, as I hope the players improve and become more consistent, or lose without being steamrolled like they are way out of their depth and we are in or around the middle of the table (as I believe at this point we will be) then I will be pleased with progress and happy that LJ is beginning to turn our fortunes around.

I won't under any circumstances just show blind faith, and I'm sorry if some people don't like that, but that doesn't make me by default an LJ hater, thick, uneducated, lacking in intelligence, or any less of a Bristol City supporter than anyone else.

Believe it or not, there are many in the LJ Out camp that would be more than happy if he did succeed.

Anyway, what do I know, I'm a thick**** who lacks intelligence and doesn't have a clue about football. I'm not even a proper City fan, I hate LJ, am negative and am actually a Gashead 

[Tully Bascomb]

I don't think you're a gas head

[JamesBCFC]

22 hours ago, Thatch35 said:his managerial record at City is poor.....

False

 

http://www.managerstats.co.uk/managers/lee-johnson/

his managerial record with us, and Barnsley is slightly better than average.

at Barnsley a bit better than that still average

at Oldham a bit worse than average.

[Gert Mare]

13 minutes ago, BoneyardTIM said:

I don't think you're a gas head

I'd rather chew my own arm off!

[Gert Mare]

1 hour ago, MarkRed! said:

I certainly dont disagree with anything said here. I think the experienced coach is needed and is a good point. Very surprised we have not tried to get someone like Joe Jordan or Keith Millen back. Would Steven McClaren be interested in a coaching role? Probably not, but I do think an experienced head would have helped LJ last season. Having said all that, LJ appears to be following (and is happy to) the diktat from above, which is why he is still in a job and perhaps why he was given it in the first place. SC was not so compromising..... 

Agreed. That's why SL has been signing cheques for fun. I think there was a lot more that went on behind the scenes before Cotts had a complete meltdown I really do. I think it must have been like trying to get money out of Hani! 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

50 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

Some reasoned debate from both sides of the fence and a sensible discussion about why some posters have an issue with some of the responses from those in the perceived opposite camp.

3 windows was probably in hindsight a bit of a foolish thing to say because some fans will take these statements literally.

This is the end of the 3rd transfer window. The squad now looks more like a Johnson squad as opposed to a hybrid Cotterill/Johnson squad. So you would assume that all of these players have the right DNA (the MA comment) to move the club forward on the pitch.

The squad in the main fits the criteria of what is required by our chief benefactor. This is very much now the foundations laid out for the plan.

Rome wasn't built in a day and these players being young should improve with experience and exposure to Championship football.

I was firmly in the Johnson Out camp last year because of the horrendous slide towards obscurity and an inability to get to grips with in game management. I.e. Throwing games away from winning positions.

However, we survived (just) so I am happy to give him a chance to go again with his full squad and I honestly believe that whilst there will be some strange results and performances I really believe that overall we will be in less trouble than we were last year. I don't dislike LJ as some (and I keep saying "some") of those in the Happy Clappy would believe. I reluctantly fell into the Cotterill Out camp when he failed to switch from 3-5-2 when it wasn't working and we were sinking along with making token 88th minute substitutions.

At the end of the day, if we are in or around the bottom 3 by November/Christmas time and if our performances become more and more like they were against Brentford as other clubs begin to study the videos and work us out, and if LJ fails to provide the right response to in game tactical changes by the opposition then I will be calling once again for Johnson to be Out.

But if, as I hope the players improve and become more consistent, or lose without being steamrolled like they are way out of their depth and we are in or around the middle of the table (as I believe at this point we will be) then I will be pleased with progress and happy that LJ is beginning to turn our fortunes around.

I won't under any circumstances just show blind faith, and I'm sorry if some people don't like that, but that doesn't make me by default an LJ hater, thick, uneducated, lacking in intelligence, or any less of a Bristol City supporter than anyone else.

Believe it or not, there are many in the LJ Out camp that would be more than happy if he did succeed.

Anyway, what do I know, I'm a thick**** who lacks intelligence and doesn't have a clue about football. I'm not even a proper City fan, I hate LJ, am negative and am actually a Gashead 

Yes a lot of reasoned debate.

No hindsight needed it was a claim for us to judge him and we will see what we see.

As for the squad I still believe it's lacking at least 2 quality midfielders added to continually playing 2 players out position in midfield, I really do not have a lot of confidence in things consistently improving, but would be more than happy to suffer the slings and arrows if I am wrong + I remain unconvinced by far too many of his signings.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

4 hours ago, BoneyardTIM said:

I don't think you're a gas head

Well, he`s certainly as obsessed with City as most of them are.

That`s all the evidence I need.

[Gert Mare]

3 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Yes a lot of reasoned debate.

No hindsight needed it was a claim for us to judge him and we will see what we see.

As for the squad I still believe it's lacking at least 2 quality midfielders added to continually playing 2 players out position in midfield, I really do not have a lot of confidence in things consistently improving, but would be more than happy to suffer the slings and arrows if I am wrong + I remain unconvinced by far too many of his signings.

 

I agree that we lack strength for the real physical battle in midfield. Harry changed his midfield in the 2nd half against us to go for strength and it turned the game into a more even contest.

Are we still a bit "too nice" as was mooted by a few posters last year?

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Well LJ must of finished with transfers. He was out in town last night.

Doubt much transfer work gets done on a Friday night on the eve of a game..

[cidered abroad]

17 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Well LJ must of finished with transfers. He was out in town last night.

I hope he took this evening off as part of his annual holiday entitlement!

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Thatch35 said:

 

He was having a cosy chat with a man over some meat in a restaurant near park st. 

Perhaps it was an agent.. or maybe a secret Grindr date