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What does Lansdown see that most of us can't ?


Andy082005

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4 hours ago, Robbored said:

For the first time in my 50+ years of following City the club is at long last got a strategy in place to establish some long term stability at AG. We can debate endlessly how the best way to go about that but at least we now have a long term plan in place to debate!

 

Well I'm glad for the first time in 50+ years we've finally got the long term strategy in place to establish long term stability.  

There I was thinking we are just about achieving status quo, epitomised by an uninspiring 0-0 draw at home with a poor Millwall.  Phew.  That's that sorted.

 

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9 hours ago, Grey Fox said:

I do not disagree with you, however after one half at Birmingham, sixty minutes at Brentford and the Millwall match isnt the reaction on here a bit excessive, ujnless of course some have there agenda already set.

 

Am looking forward to Friday where I am sure we wil all be fully behind City

Agree that a complete meltdown is completely excessive. We are 3 league games in.

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18 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

 No, Dave - I really really genuinely would like to hear it:

Just explain in brief terms how he is using Bristol Sport as a tax loss/ tax vehicle which you say is 'most likely'. This isn't a rhetorical question, I'm sure many of us would truly like to know how this works.

In respect of Liverpool, Southampton & Barcelona  : " It isn't rocket science"- well if it was even remotely uncomplicated then everyone would be doing it.

 

 

Google negative gearing real estate as used in Australia

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10 hours ago, Up The City! said:

But we didn't lose? I agree the performance was average but that's football, you get these types of games from time to time. I'm just pleased we didn't lose.

In your previous post you said it was a decent result now its average. If you are saying they mean the same then you are happy with mediocrity. 

Or you are being slowly persuaded it was not up to much. 

Many will be happy with mid table. I have no idea why. I doubt even SL will be happy with that. 

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3 hours ago, SX227 said:

 

Google negative gearing real estate as used in Australia

Take a step back; he isn't a UK resident anymore. He s not using Bristol sport to mitigate tax, because he's tax resident in Guernsey in the first place :blink:

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3 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

1.2 million was a lot of money for us back then indeed we spunked a lot that summer and we got relegated, so no doesnt negate the point... Spending money doesnt equal success nor does it give us the right for it.  if you think other wise great for you. however i'll disagree as we have done it loads of times and it hasnt meant that we are world beaters or that we will win, lots... however lots of fans includig yourself seem to think otherwise, we are 'rich' so surely that means we should be better than we are..

We dont have that right and have to earn it...

 

Literally nobody expected success that summer or this summer.

I'm actually very uncomfortable with us spending the amount of money we have but I think it's not unreasonable to expect a bit more to show for it.

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8 hours ago, WTFiGO!?! said:

Well I'm glad for the first time in 50+ years we've finally got the long term strategy in place to establish long term stability.  

There I was thinking we are just about achieving status quo, epitomised by an uninspiring 0-0 draw at home with a poor Millwall.  Phew.  That's that sorted.

 

Take the piss all you want. You're a perfect example of fan short termism.............:facepalm:

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15 hours ago, Robbored said:

I think you'll find that what you've said is pretty much what SL has done.......The difference is that LJ has no managerial cv to speak of.

What Mr Lansdown is doing is pretty much hard to mirror anywhere and its owned by him!!! its nothing like the clubs mentioned. One decision maker and that's Mr Lansdown as he has said himself.  

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13 hours ago, Robbored said:

For the first time in my 50+ years of following City the club is at long last got a strategy in place to establish some long term stability at AG. We can debate endlessly how the best way to go about that but at least we now have a long term plan in place to debate!

 

Lots of fans are happy with a long term plan, as long as it brings immediate success.

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21 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Lots of fans are happy with a long term plan, as long as it brings immediate success.

I would like to know how long is long.  Two decades, quarter of a century, how long?

To have a long term plan that has lasted a decade or so and has bounced backwards and forwards in that time seems a pretty faulty sort of plan to me.

Moreover, on the evidence, rather than the pr what exactly is the plan?  Five pillars, European football on a rather short timescale, keeping parity with the rugby, making Bristol Sport even larger ?  I am lost.

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11 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

I would like to know how long is long.  Two decades, quarter of a century, how long?

To have a long term plan that has lasted a decade or so and has bounced backwards and forwards in that time seems a pretty faulty sort of plan to me.

Moreover, on the evidence, rather than the pr what exactly is the plan?  Five pillars, European football on a rather short timescale, keeping parity with the rugby, making Bristol Sport even larger ?  I am lost.

SL's appointment of L J has come to the point where the 'Peter Principle' is now a valid description of the present situation.[ ie lower league manager brought into a higher league] where the new manager now has reached his'' level of incompetence''.

Extract from Wikipedia

Overview

The Peter Principle is a special case of a ubiquitous observation: Anything that works will be used in progressively more challenging applications until it fails. This is the "generalized Peter Principle". Peter noted that there is a strong temptation for people to use what has worked before, even when this might not be appropriate for the current situation.[1]

In an organizational structure, assessing an employee's potential for a promotion is often based on their performance in the current job. This eventually results in their being promoted to their highest level of competence and potentially then to a role in which they are not competent, referred to as their "level of incompetence". The employee has no chance of further promotion, thus reaching their career's ceiling in an organization.

Peter suggests that "in time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out" assigned duties[2] and that "work is accomplished by those employees who have not yet reached their level of incompetence". He coined the term hierarchiology as the social science concerned with the basic principles of hierarchically organized systems in human society.

He noted that their incompetence may be because the required skills are different, but not more difficult. For example an excellent engineer may be a poor manager if he or she lacks the interpersonal skills necessary to lead a team.

Rather than seeking to promote a talented "super-competent" junior employee, Peter suggested that an incompetent manager may set them up to fail or dismiss them because they are likely to "violate the first commandment of hierarchical life with incompetent leadership: the hierarchy must be preserved".[citation needed]

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11 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Meh, got something wrong, shall go and say a billion Hail Marys or something.

Point still stands, money doesnt equate success

If spent poorly, no.

If used competently, it tends to yield results.

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15 hours ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Surely he has a company in Africa, I am right? perhaps someone itk will tell us.

No- he owns a couple of game reserves in Botswana ( hence the pre-season there). Owning a game reserve in Africa is not a money making exercise but Maggie does love taking pictures of the wildlife- particularly Elephants.

Apparently the locals think it's a loss making tax dodge to offset against his massive sporting profits in the UK..........

6 hours ago, SX227 said:

 

Google negative gearing real estate as used in Australia

No thanks. I'm pissed off enough with CJ Hole in Southville who have a management team that makes BCFC look like world beaters.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Take the piss all you want. You're a perfect example of fan short termism.............:facepalm:

Don't mind if I do.  

So at what arbitrary point of yours are we permitted to judge whether the supposed long-term plan is a success or failure?

So far it seems the plan has been heavily reliant on acquiring a 20+ goal a season striker before they inevitably move on (seems pretty short-term to me).  I fear the reliance on that particular strategy will fail at some point.  In the mean time we have a powder-puff side with no apparent game plan and the most decisive manager I can recall.   We avoided relegation on the penultimate game with a three point cushion, having gone on a club-record losing run.  Is this all a part of the long-term plan?

Another nagging fear I have re the plan is that none of the other plans have yielded any sustained success - being a strong third flight club/weak second flight club is all I've ever known - and that's where we still are.  Stability in that sense has already been achieved, if that's what you mean?

I can only judge the long-term plan by performances and results so far and the latest instalment of performances/results are pitiful and showing no sign of abating.

So you can patronise me all you like for failing to see the emperors new clothes and I will continue to mock you for readily lapping up shit in a similar fashion to the way the dominions over at R*vers feed off Weal's.

I forecast a long, difficult season ahead.  I suppose that does represent stability ;)

Or is it still too short term to judge?

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3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

I would think Steve sees a little bit of himself in Lee, whereas I don't see this. Anyone else see a little bit of themselves in Lee?

I think some have seen a bit of Steve in themselves the way they carry on.  Maybe a bit of Steve in themselves and a bit of themselves in Lee?

It's all love, man :wub:

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2 hours ago, WTFiGO!?! said:

 

So at what arbitrary point of yours are we permitted to judge whether the supposed long-term plan is a success or failure

I can only judge the long-term plan by performances and results so far and the latest instalment of performances/results are pitiful and showing no sign of abating.

Or is it still too short term to judge?

You really really don't grasp what SL is trying to achieve do you? 

I'll try to simplify it for you by using a political analogy.

The Labour party get elected and introduces various manifestos with long term effectiveness in mind. Then they get booted out and the Tories abandon all the Labour strategies and introduce their own. Then they booted  out.......and so on.

No consistently or stability in British politics is major problem as we all know.

In my years of supporting City there has never been any stability. Chairmen come and go, boards change regularly and managers  come and go just as Chairmen do.

SL as the majority shareholder has come to realise that with a constant cycle of managers and their backroom staff that stability is impossible to achieve and stability is an essential element in any successful FC. The old Liverpool "boot room" method highlights that when they won those  European cups not that long ago.

Stability is not about the last result or the last season. It'll take time to be effective and City have only just begun and I for one are delighted with the implementation of a long term stability strategy.

We can debate until the cows home about whether LJ or MA  are the right men to oversee the club but our opinions are of no consequence. That doesn't stop us debating it tho......

 

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The long term strategy is to ignore the short term. And quite clearly SL was going to ignore it as he was prepared to let us go down last year. Fantastic that, ain't it; really do have a warm fuzzy feeling about the future :blink:

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26 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You really really don't grasp what SL is trying to achieve do you? 

I'll try to simplify it for you by using a political analogy.

The Labour party get elected and introduces various manifestos with long term effectiveness in mind. Then they get booted out and the Tories abandon all the Labour strategies and introduce their own. Then they booted  out.......and so on.

No consistently or stability in British politics is major problem as we all know.

In my years of supporting City there has never been any stability. Chairmen come and go, boards change regularly and managers  come and go just as Chairmen do.

SL as the majority shareholder has come to realise that with a constant cycle of managers and their backroom staff that stability is impossible to achieve and stability is an essential element in any successful FC. The old Liverpool "boot room" method highlights that when they won those  European cups not that long ago.

Stability is not about the last result or the last season. It'll take time to be effective and City have only just begun and I for one are delighted with the implementation of a long term stability strategy.

We can debate until the cows home about whether LJ or MA  are the right men to oversee the club but our opinions are of no consequence. That doesn't stop us debating it tho......

 

The answer for British politics is for the left of the Tories to form a centralist party with the right of labour, I believe this would continually win a majority but that's for the politics forum.

Back in the democratic western world what happens is once faith is lost in a leader or manager and there is a consensus it's run its course, changes are made.

According to your or SL's logic, Labour would never have been ousted in 2010, when the country was in dire straights, and Gordon Brown may well still be in charge now - does that seem sensible to you?  As it was, the people saw sense and voted Labour out.  How destabilising.

I agree that it makes sense for clubs to develop their own identity and philosophy and management recruitment needs to be compatible with that, as opposed to the new man forever bringing in his new ideas with him.

On the continent, managers are generally hired for one or two seasons before moving on, that is the norm.  Gone are the days of expecting or hoping for long-term football managers such as Arsene Wenger or Fergie.  This is why the club needs to set the template and recruit accordingly.  Watford are a leading English club in this, we have other ideas of course.

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20 minutes ago, Robin Ashton said:

How long was Harry Dolman the main man? How long has SL been the main man? Scott Davidson, what 5 years in charge?

A fair chunk of your many years, wouldn't you say, Robbored?

How long was HD the chairman? 

I really don't remember.

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2 minutes ago, WTFiGO!?! said:

I agree that it makes sense for clubs to develop their own identity and philosophy and management recruitment needs to be compatible with that, as opposed to the new man forever bringing in his new ideas with him.

So you do understand what SL is hoping to achieve............:blink:

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46 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You really really don't grasp what SL is trying to achieve do you? 

I'll try to simplify it for you by using a political analogy.

The Labour party get elected and introduces various manifestos with long term effectiveness in mind. Then they get booted out and the Tories abandon all the Labour strategies and introduce their own. Then they booted  out.......and so on.

No consistently or stability in British politics is major problem as we all know.

In my years of supporting City there has never been any stability. Chairmen come and go, boards change regularly and managers  come and go just as Chairmen do.

SL as the majority shareholder has come to realise that with a constant cycle of managers and their backroom staff that stability is impossible to achieve and stability is an essential element in any successful FC. The old Liverpool "boot room" method highlights that when they won those  European cups not that long ago.

Stability is not about the last result or the last season. It'll take time to be effective and City have only just begun and I for one are delighted with the implementation of a long term stability strategy.

We can debate until the cows home about whether LJ or MA  are the right men to oversee the club but our opinions are of no consequence. That doesn't stop us debating it tho......

 

Some good points here.  We did have stability under Harry Dolman and Alan Dicks, and eventually it paid off, but since then and particularly in the last few years, there has been little development.  Terry Cooper pulled us out of the mire and did a job for us, and maybe Joe Jordan would have taken us further forward if he hadn't walked off to Hearts in 1991, but what followed was shambolic, with Lumsden, Smith, Osman, Jordan again, Ward, Lennartson and Pulis coming and going, and with no sense of where the club was heading.  I suppose Danny Wilson was given the sort of chance that others wanted, but he blew it by simply not being good enough (Danny Wilson had the best squad available to any manager since Alan Dicks, and he still couldn't get us promoted after four attempts).  We all know the story since then, but now seems to be the first time we have a cohesive strategy to which we are sticking.  Of course there's no guarantee that it will work, but what is the alternative?  Throw money at gaining short term success and end up like Blackpool?

Everyone enjoys seeing City win, but I believe there are a bunch of people who care about City in charge, and a lot clubs can't say that.  They may not have the end product yet, but I'd rather watch young players develop than pay a fortune for seasoned pros and end up the way we did the last time we got to the top division.

And yes, it hasn't been the greatest start to the season, but there's a long way to go yet.  When we got promoted in 2007 we lost three of our first four matches...

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1 minute ago, Robbored said:

So you do understand what SL is hoping to achieve............:blink:

You really have bought into this haven't you?

I have seen no evidence that our new recruitment policy and head coach are working, not even the faintest glimmer.  If you suck it up at the senior reds lunches then fair enough but I see nothing to suggest we're going the right way (apart from the very impressive Ashton Gate).

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1 minute ago, Robbored said:

So you do understand what SL is hoping to achieve............:blink:

Of course I do.  

This does not mean not changing the manager as and when required, he is merely a cog in a wheel.

SL and you seem to see sticking with a manager through thin and thin as the same thing.

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1 minute ago, RumRed said:

You really have bought into this haven't you?

I have seen no evidence that our new recruitment policy and head coach are working, not even the faintest glimmer.  If you suck it up at the senior reds lunches then fair enough but I see nothing to suggest we're going the right way (apart from the very impressive Ashton Gate).

Not yet we haven't. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

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