Robbored Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 minute ago, WTFiGO!?! said: Of course I do. This does not mean not changing the manager as and when required, he is merely a cog in a wheel. It does means not changing the manager ffs! That's the whole point! Any new manager has to buy into SLs long term plans and in the past at interview they've agree with it but then when in post failed to deliver. They then get dismissed and their backroom staff go with them soon after. In comes a new bloke with his own staff.....and so it goes on. SL is convinced that LJ is an essential part of the long term strategy. Most of us would not necessarily agree but what SL says goes. He's trusts LJs integrity and that he'll do what he's said he'll do. LJ is here long term. The only trigger to dismiss him will be relegation. He was close to being sacked last season and said as much at the Senior Reds last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, RumRed said: Are you suggesting LJ and JL are Romulus and Remus? Their catchphrase is unfortunately more likely to be Vidi autem veni futui Would that then make Mark Ashton the she-wolf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said: Would that then make Mark Ashton the she-Wolf? If so his nipples must be a bit raw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Robbored said: It does means not changing the manager ffs! That's the whole point! Any new manager has to buy into SLs long term plans and in the past at interview they've agree with it but then when in post failed to deliver. They then get dismissed and their backroom staff go with them soon after. In comes a new bloke with his own staff.....and so it goes on. SL is convinced that LJ is an essential part of the long term strategy. Most of us would not necessarily agree but what SL says goes. He's trusts LJs integrity and that he'll do what he's said he'll do. LJ is here long term. The only trigger to dismiss him will be relegation. He was close to being sacked last season and said as much at the Senior Reds last week. He's not the manager, he's the head coach and therefore instantly replaceable. That was the 'long term' plan was it not? I thought that's what the last 2 years was about? Bloody hell I'm confused, can someone just draw me a diagram of who is meant to be doing what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Robbored said: LJ is here long term. The only trigger to dismiss him will be relegation. He was close to being sacked last season and said as much at the Senior Reds last week. What do you base that on? SL cannot let this season go the same way as last. We were extremely close to being relegated and as you say LJ was close to getting the sack after PNE away. If there are no signs of significant progress over the next few months and we are in or around the relegation places then SL will finally act IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said: What do you base that on? SL cannot let this season go the same way as last. We were extremely close to being relegated and as you say LJ was close to getting the sack after PNE away. If there are no signs of significant progress over the next few months and we are in or around the relegation places then SL will finally act IMO. SL might act but it's a big might. Like every other City supporter I'm hoping we don't suffer the same this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tts_city Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said: What do you base that on? SL cannot let this season go the same way as last. We were extremely close to being relegated and as you say LJ was close to getting the sack after PNE away. If there are no signs of significant progress over the next few months and we are in or around the relegation places then SL will finally act IMO. I admire your optimism, I fear if we are flirting with the relegation spots in the next couple of months he will get the january window and more cash thrown at it, then it will be a couple of more months after that if at all, a depressing thought indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Robbored said: It does means not changing the manager ffs! That's the whole point! Any new manager has to buy into SLs long term plans and in the past at interview they've agree with it but then when in post failed to deliver. They then get dismissed and their backroom staff go with them soon after. In comes a new bloke with his own staff.....and so it goes on. SL is convinced that LJ is an essential part of the long term strategy. Most of us would not necessarily agree but what SL says goes. He's trusts LJs integrity and that he'll do what he's said he'll do. LJ is here long term. The only trigger to dismiss him will be relegation. He was close to being sacked last season and said as much at the Senior Reds last week. Well sticking blindly to one manager/head coach is an entirely different thing to what clubs such as Southampton have done in setting up a philosophy and recruiting the right fit for it. The whole point is that managers and players can come and go without destabilising the club as a whole. **** me! How backward are we! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumRed Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, WTFiGO!?! said: Well sticking blindly to one manager/head coach is an entirely different thing to what clubs such as Southampton have done in setting up a philosophy and recruiting the right fit for it. The whole point is that managers and players can come and go without destabilising the club as a whole. **** me! How backward are we! I thought the plan was sold to us at the time as a head coach could be replaced easily as the back room staff, scouts (cough, cough) etc were the backbone of the club? So who are the two left standing? MA and LJ. Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Robbored said: Not yet we haven't. Rome wasn't built in a day. My God, at this glacial rate Rome will never be built Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Ashton Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Robbored said: How long was HD the chairman? I really don't remember. Apologies, Robbored, a good chunk of his tenure was before your time. According to Wikipedia from 49 - 74 when he was deposed as chairman (before promotion to the top flight had happened), and then club president until his death in 77. Do you remember why he was deposed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said: What do you base that on? SL cannot let this season go the same way as last. We were extremely close to being relegated and as you say LJ was close to getting the sack after PNE away. If there are no signs of significant progress over the next few months and we are in or around the relegation places then SL will finally act IMO. I agree. I think LJ can survive if our performances are good but we're not getting the rub of the green. However, if we are playing crap and struggling around Nov/Dec time I think he'll get the bullet and a new man will come in for the new transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said: What do you base that on? SL cannot let this season go the same way as last. We were extremely close to being relegated and as you say LJ was close to getting the sack after PNE away. If there are no signs of significant progress over the next few months and we are in or around the relegation places then SL will finally act IMO. Doubt that KITR. That would be SL acknowledging being wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 The only positive I can see of us suffering this season is the fans realisation that it isn't really down to the head coach, but down to the long-term vision of the club. I remember the awful interview with Lansdown from last season where he was put on the spot over how he's handled the club since his long-term plan had been implemented. When LJ is sacked, I can not only see similar questions being asked of him, but a lot of scrutiny into the person he chooses to take the club forward after that. Unlike many people here, I have no problem with LJ. I liked him as a player, and I don't think he's incompetent. He's not the finished article, but I doubt he'd tell you that he was. My problem with the current setup is that it's not sustainable for a club that is looking for on-pitch success. Rather, it's one for a club that is struggling to make enough money to remain viable, and one that needs to increase the money it receives on transfers to fill the gaps in income. I think that this is the real reason why we're buying youngsters from abroad. If we can maintain our position in the Championship, it means we can buy cheap and sell for cost or for profit. This stops the club from hemorrhaging money. The added belief is that a sustainable club will also be a successful club, although I think that becomes less and less true every year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 hours ago, WTFiGO!?! said: Well sticking blindly to one manager/head coach is an entirely different thing to what clubs such as Southampton have done in setting up a philosophy and recruiting the right fit for it. The whole point is that managers and players can come and go without destabilising the club. At City managerial changes have destabilised the club - what little stability there was. That's what SL wants to change and a huge part of why he's sticking with LJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 25 minutes ago, EnderMB said: The only positive I can see of us suffering this season is the fans realisation that it isn't really down to the head coach, but down to the long-term vision of the club. I remember the awful interview with Lansdown from last season where he was put on the spot over how he's handled the club since his long-term plan had been implemented. When LJ is sacked, I can not only see similar questions being asked of him, but a lot of scrutiny into the person he chooses to take the club forward after that. Unlike many people here, I have no problem with LJ. I liked him as a player, and I don't think he's incompetent. He's not the finished article, but I doubt he'd tell you that he was. My problem with the current setup is that it's not sustainable for a club that is looking for on-pitch success. Rather, it's one for a club that is struggling to make enough money to remain viable, and one that needs to increase the money it receives on transfers to fill the gaps in income. I think that this is the real reason why we're buying youngsters from abroad. If we can maintain our position in the Championship, it means we can buy cheap and sell for cost or for profit. This stops the club from hemorrhaging money. The added belief is that a sustainable club will also be a successful club, although I think that becomes less and less true every year... The tight rope you walk is there usually comes a point when the young uns you recruit aren't good enough to mainatin your league position - it's early days yet but have Barnsley reached that point I wonder? Does anyone believe our recruitment is good enough to consistently unearth unregarded but championship quality young uns that will keep us climbing the table while we simultaneously sell them off when reaching peak value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coach Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Robbored said: At City managerial changes have destabilised the club - what little stability there was. That's what SL wants to change and a huge part of why he's sticking with LJ. I think you're trying to kid yourself again in some way @Robbored I, like most understand what Lansdown is trying to achieve. But it's simple not working, and hasn't been since our return to the Championship. We're sailing about with one oar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Robbored said: At City managerial changes have destabilised the club - what little stability there was. That's what SL wants to change and a huge part of why he's sticking with LJ. You're right but this strategy only makes sense - especially if you keep talking about Prem football, making City one of the biggest clubs in the country etc - if you appoint the right Coach in the first place. There are rather a lot of level;-headed, genuine supporters who doubt this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 20 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said: I think you're trying to kid yourself again in some way @Robbored I, like most understand what Lansdown is trying to achieve. But it's simple not working, and hasn't been since our return to the Championship. We're sailing about with one oar. What do you mean "it's not working?" Its only just begun. We are roughly 18/12 into the strategy. We have to give it time to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: You're right but this strategy only makes sense - especially if you keep talking about Prem football, making City one of the biggest clubs in the country etc - if you appoint the right Coach in the first place. There are rather a lot of level;-headed, genuine supporters who doubt this is the case. In another post on this thread I said that the opinions of us fans count for nothing. SL is the main man and what he decides goes. Debating whether LJ is the right choice is another topic altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Robbored said: It does means not changing the manager ffs! That's the whole point! Any new manager has to buy into SLs long term plans and in the past at interview they've agree with it but then when in post failed to deliver. They then get dismissed and their backroom staff go with them soon after. In comes a new bloke with his own staff.....and so it goes on. SL is convinced that LJ is an essential part of the long term strategy. Most of us would not necessarily agree but what SL says goes. He's trusts LJs integrity and that he'll do what he's said he'll do. LJ is here long term. The only trigger to dismiss him will be relegation. He was close to being sacked last season and said as much at the Senior Reds last week. This is absolutely ridiculous. Long term is fine, if you have a manager who knows what he's doing. LJ consistently proved last season and this, he doesn't have a clue. It's frightening how wide this ranges aswell. From transfers, to formations, tactics etc. I'm appalled at the club, management, whoever, for buying players, and then not playing them, and then making out their surplus to requirements, and bringing in MORE players. If that doesn't tell you LJ hadn't got a f*cking clue, then nothing will. The money we've spent is outrageous, for it to be just pissed away, and the excuses to try and paper over the cracks. This whole 'long term plan' BS is getting very tiresome. It's great to have a long term plan, if the right people are in place. I don't believe this to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Akira said: This is absolutely ridiculous. Long term is fine, if you have a manager who knows what he's doing. LJ consistently proved last season and this, he doesn't have a clue. This whole 'long term plan' BS is getting very tiresome. It's great to have a long term plan, if the right people are in place. I don't believe this to be the case. No point criticising the manager. He's here indefinitely. Whether he's the right man or not is another discussion completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Robbored said: In another post on this thread I said that the opinions of us fans count for nothing. SL is the main man and what he decides goes. Debating whether LJ is the right choice is another topic altogether. What the main man in America decides goes. What the main man in North Korea decides goes. At the moment a lot of these decisions are not good ones. So yes, SL is indeed the main man and what he decides does indeed go. That makes no difference to whether what he decides is sensible. Rather a lot of City fans have their doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coach Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 17 minutes ago, Robbored said: What do you mean "it's not working?" Its only just begun. We are roughly 18/12 into the strategy. We have to give it time to develop. It's our 3rd season in the Championship @Robbored have we improved? What have we accomplished besides a beautiful refurbished Ashton Gate?. You can talk about long term plans all you want. But just like in my line of work, you still have to deliver short term goals to your customers/stakeholders in order to keep them happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Robbored said: No point criticising the manager. He's here indefinitely. Whether he's the right man or not is another discussion completely. That's what I don't understand though. I thought the whole point was to decouple the manager/head coach or whatever from running of the entire club at much as possible, so you could remove one and you wouldn't be rebuilding from scratch, which has happened in the past and stops any long term progression. If we're apparently doing that but one specific man is so integral to the entire project he cannot be replaced it seems to me we've either incorrectly implemented the whole philosophy, or are merely paying lip service to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said: But just like in my line of work, you still have to deliver short term goals to your customers/stakeholders in order to keep them happy. I ideally that would great for us all but I'm sure that keeping us fans happy is not the top priority in SL immediate plans. If City have a good season then he'll be just as delighted as the rest of us but staying in the Championship will be good enough for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobintheRed Red Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 On 19/08/2017 at 17:28, Andy082005 said: ...because I sure as hell can't see what this manager is trying to do. I thought Brentford away was bad....but that was pathetic. So many of his signings are just not good enough . Brownhill , Paterson, Diedhiou ....don't even get me started on O'dowda. The kid has zero end product . I particularly liked the moment in the second half when he went to take charge of that free kick...only to clip it straight into the keepers hands . Awful This manager is clueless . I can't see how anyone can have any faith in him when it comes to signing the right players, or getting his tactics right. He certainly has no plan B Please....someone tell me what he is trying to do? Because I just don't know wish i cold tick the like box more than once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, Robbored said: No point criticising the manager. He's here indefinitely. Whether he's the right man or not is another discussion completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon uk Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 Im really not sure what people expect? We survived last season by the skin of our teeth with a fantastic loan striker who has now gone. We have spent another 10 million and the squad still lacks quality and tammy is gone, and the manager is still out of his depth and blowing money and hoping that fixes the problems. Why would we expect anything other than a struggle this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted August 21, 2017 Report Share Posted August 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, Robbored said: I ideally that would great for us all but I'm sure that keeping us fans happy is not the top priority in SL immediate plans. If City have a good season then he'll be just as delighted as the rest of us but staying in the Championship will be good enough for him. Ain't that the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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