Between heaven and hell Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 I am worried how are we going to create enough goal scoring opportunities for the big man. It seems pretty obvious to me that Lee Johnson doesn't like to play a wide game as he's narrowed the pitch and must have given Brownhill and Paterson some kind of instruction to come inside rather than out. Our only opportunities to go wide and get the ball in to the box come from when Joe goes on the occasional overlap and one instance when the old Italian found himself upfield yesterday. Surely a big lad like Diedhiou needs the ball being delivered in to the box from wide areas as he doesn't look the player you can thread balls in to from behind. We are not going to get the best out if our £5m investment with service like this, yesterday we saw him start to come deeper and deeper to collect the ball which we certainly do not want My suggestion would be to play a 3-5-1-1 giving Joe and Callum Odowda instructions to go past their men an get good first time crosses in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 Quoted from LJ yesterday after the game... “We had the lion’s share of possession but didn’t really use it. It was a little bit sloppy at times, which is the bit that really grates me because I want our neat and tidy footballers to play our way – to get the ball wide and deliver crosses. “When we did get it wide, I thought we were quite good, but on the day we didn’t create enough opportunities for the amount of ball that we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Between heaven and hell Posted August 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, spudski said: Quoted from LJ yesterday after the game... “We had the lion’s share of possession but didn’t really use it. It was a little bit sloppy at times, which is the bit that really grates me because I want our neat and tidy footballers to play our way – to get the ball wide and deliver crosses. “When we did get it wide, I thought we were quite good, but on the day we didn’t create enough opportunities for the amount of ball that we had. Thanks for that. I would suggest then that we have the wrong players in those key positions at the moment as I didn't notice Brownhill for example trying to go wide and deliver into the box, his natural movement always seems to be inward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Between heaven and hell said: Thanks for that. I would suggest then that we have the wrong players in those key positions at the moment as I didn't notice Brownhill for example trying to go wide and deliver into the box, his natural movement always seems to be inward. We use Bryan and Pisano to provide crosses, as overlapping full backs. Patterson and Brownhill, will fall inside to cover. Eliason has been brought in to play more direct as a supplier of crosses. I can see him being used more in the future. Pisano puts in a good ball. I can see Eliason once up to speed, replacing Patterson and producing crosses from the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 He doesn't look to me like a typical targetman in the Đurić mould. Thought @Davefevs' Heskey comparison the other day was the most accurate one I've seen so far. To me he looks very comfortable with his back to goal but having the ball played into his feet. He does well at buying time for Reid etc to get into other positions. Felt he was given a hard time by Webster and Hutchinson yesterday and seemed to find that frustrating. Good learning experience for him though. He'd be best with lots of players buzzing around him that he can make lay-offs to but we never seemed to make those runs yesterday. His header against Brentford was great but I'd like to see him get into more dangerous positions. Feel at times he drops a bit deep from where a striker instinctively should be running to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Between heaven and hell Posted August 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, spudski said: We use Bryan and Pisano to provide crosses, as overlapping full backs. Patterson and Brownhill, will fall inside to cover. Eliason has been brought in to play more direct as a supplier of crosses. I can see him being used more in the future. Pisano puts in a good ball. I can see Eliason once up to speed, replacing Patterson and producing crosses from the left. I think that's my point entirely tbf, we are probably more reliant on full backs providing a service than the wide midfielders. Let's hope we can make some changes sooner rather later and get the bid fella firing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Between heaven and hell Posted August 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: He doesn't look to me like a typical targetman in the Đurić mound. Thought @Davefevs Heskey comparison the other day was the most accurate one I've seen so far. To me he looks very comfortable with his back to goal but having the ball played into his feet. He does well at buying time for Reid etc to get into other positions. Felt he was given a hard time by Webster and Hutchinson yesterday and seemed to find that frustrating. Good learning experience for him though. He'd be best with lots of players buzzing around him that he can make lay-offs to but we never seemed to make those runs yesterday. His header against Brentford was great but I'd like to see him get into more dangerous positions. Feel at times he drops a bit deep from where a striker instinctively should be running to. Good point about the centre halves yesterday but its a different game for them if crosses are coming into the box from behind their full backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosey Boy Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 Only a matter of time before Elliason becomes a regular in the side - he looks quality and sense that LJ has been impressed with him in training. Give him an hour on Tuesday and then play him from the off against Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Loosey Boy said: Only a matter of time before Elliason becomes a regular in the side - he looks quality and sense that LJ has been impressed with him in training. Give him an hour on Tuesday and then play him from the off against Villa Would've liked to see him instead of O'Dowda yesterday. Haven't watched him yet and wanted a bit of intrigue and spark into that game! Hope he gets a full game on Tuesday and hopefully plays well enough to appear on Friday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loosey Boy Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said: Would've liked to see him instead of O'Dowda yesterday. Haven't watched him yet and wanted a bit of intrigue and spark into that game! Hope he gets a full game on Tuesday and hopefully plays well enough to appear on Friday too. Me too - thought he would have come on instead of COD. This guy could be the man we need in order to maximise Famara's strengths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_eastender Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said: Only a matter of time before Elliason becomes a regular in the side - he looks quality and sense that LJ has been impressed with him in training. Give him an hour on Tuesday and then play him from the off against Villa Let's hope so, after all he should have come to us already match fit given it's mid-season in Sweden. If we didn't think he was worth a place in the starting line-up why sign him, we don't want another Engval situation with him. Frustrated he didn't start yesterday given how poor Paterson was against Brentford, and even more frustrated that he was unused sub yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC OF SWEDEN Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 I really hope Lee doesnt use Eliasson the same way he used Engvall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: He doesn't look to me like a typical targetman in the Đurić mould. Thought @Davefevs' Heskey comparison the other day was the most accurate one I've seen so far. To me he looks very comfortable with his back to goal but having the ball played into his feet. He does well at buying time for Reid etc to get into other positions. Felt he was given a hard time by Webster and Hutchinson yesterday and seemed to find that frustrating. Good learning experience for him though. He'd be best with lots of players buzzing around him that he can make lay-offs to but we never seemed to make those runs yesterday. His header against Brentford was great but I'd like to see him get into more dangerous positions. Feel at times he drops a bit deep from where a striker instinctively should be running to. Part of the problem comes imo from the midfield dropping deep forcing him to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 He's actually pretty good with his feet for a big guy but the service yesterday was woeful to non existent. Often has to drop deep to even see the ball then struggling to get back upfront if we do actually break quickly. Not afraid to put himself about yesterday, as seen on a couple of occasions, one leading to his yellow card moment. Sort out the supply to him and I think we will see more from him, plus I think he will bring others in on goal, but he isn't going to score as many as Tammy, because I don't think he has that "goal hanger" aptitude (see Chincharita Hernandez and his 2 goals for West Ham yesterday as one of the best examples) for tap ins. That would appear to be Reid's job now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 28 minutes ago, Between heaven and hell said: I think that's my point entirely tbf, we are probably more reliant on full backs providing a service than the wide midfielders. Let's hope we can make some changes sooner rather later and get the bid fella firing We aren't playing wide midfielders though. It's more a narrow diamond. It's set up for our full backs to be the widest and higher up the pitch with Pack and Smith covering when teams break against us which is why they aren't closer to the strikers. I quite like the system but not sure the personnel is right long term. Paterson is a good fit but very inconsistent. He does both get out wide and come inside. He also will try and run in behind at times. Brownhill however looks for ball to feet every time and rarely tries staying wide. He's the first one I'd replace and probably put him in for Korey Smith. He's athletic enough to be box to box and is someone who will look to get the ball forward. Eliasson will come into the equation sooner rather than later I would think. When Taylor is fit and Woodrow up to speed, we can use Bobby there if needed as well. Those positions are asked to do a lot of running so they'll need to be changed up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Between heaven and hell Posted August 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said: We aren't playing wide midfielders though. It's more a narrow diamond. It's set up for our full backs to be the widest and higher up the pitch with Pack and Smith covering when teams break against us which is why they aren't closer to the strikers. I quite like the system but not sure the personnel is right long term. Paterson is a good fit but very inconsistent. He does both get out wide and come inside. He also will try and run in behind at times. Brownhill however looks for ball to feet every time and rarely tries staying wide. He's the first one I'd replace and probably put him in for Korey Smith. He's athletic enough to be box to box and is someone who will look to get the ball forward. Eliasson will come into the equation sooner rather than later I would think. When Taylor is fit and Woodrow up to speed, we can use Bobby there if needed as well. Those positions are asked to do a lot of running so they'll need to be changed up a bit. Good points mate but its all part of the same service issue. Narrow pitch , diamond shaped narrow midfield, full backs not getting forward. Changes in system or personnel are required to offer more opportunities to the big man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 1 hour ago, spudski said: We use Bryan and Pisano to provide crosses, as overlapping full backs. Patterson and Brownhill, will fall inside to cover. Eliason has been brought in to play more direct as a supplier of crosses. I can see him being used more in the future. Pisano puts in a good ball. I can see Eliason once up to speed, replacing Patterson and producing crosses from the left. yes spudski, I do not think you far from LJ's thinking. but what is plan B? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said: yes spudski, I do not think you far from LJ's thinking. but what is plan B? I've not seen it yet mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 41 minutes ago, Between heaven and hell said: Good points mate but its all part of the same service issue. Narrow pitch , diamond shaped narrow midfield, full backs not getting forward. Changes in system or personnel are required to offer more opportunities to the big man. It's the fullbacks for me. Didn't think Joe had the same desire to get forward yesterday as he did against Barnsley. I'm not sure why this is but him and Pisano are our main sources of crosses this season. I think the system is fine but I believe the players are a bit tired after a long week. Paterson, Brownhill, COD and Eliasson can all play in those spots around the strikers but when Pisano and Bryan are tired we don't have the same depth. I can see it being a problem as I can see Kelly and Vyner not being trusted for 90 min of league matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 33 minutes ago, spudski said: I've not seen it yet mate. ahh found the flaw in plan B. LJ did not tell the players so they unable to show us plan B. life is just so simple at times. ;O) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmerred Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 We badly need a Wade Elliott type player, something which was crucial in our promotion winning season, but legs were going when in the Championship. He was quality but we signed him 3 years too late. We need to find a 27/28yo quality centre midfielder who is attacking minded but can also cut back and not be afraid to get stuck in. They cost a lot of money but in many ways they are more vital than a goalscorer as they will link up play and create positions on the pitch for others and create chances for others. Tomlin couldn't track back or play in the centre of mid, he wanted to be in the hole. We need a player like Elliott was in his prime. The player we should break the bank for is Barry Bannan. Chuck £6-8m at Wednesday and I think they would take it, but he would improve our team massively and he is exactly the sort of player we are missing and need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: He doesn't look to me like a typical targetman in the Đurić mould. Thought @Davefevs' Heskey comparison the other day was the most accurate one I've seen so far. To me he looks very comfortable with his back to goal but having the ball played into his feet. He does well at buying time for Reid etc to get into other positions. Felt he was given a hard time by Webster and Hutchinson yesterday and seemed to find that frustrating. Good learning experience for him though. He'd be best with lots of players buzzing around him that he can make lay-offs to but we never seemed to make those runs yesterday. His header against Brentford was great but I'd like to see him get into more dangerous positions. Feel at times he drops a bit deep from where a striker instinctively should be running to. I think someone else mentioned Heskey and that he was crap. I argued he wasn't. My comparison was Kevin Campbell. I agree he's not a target man for high balls and you are spot on that he is fine into feet. The service to him yesterday was poor. He reacted wrongly and got his yellow. Anyone remember Kodjia kicking McFadzean off the ball against MKD - and getting away with it. None of our forward 6 were especially great yesterday. I think he is not used to the intensity of Sat / Tues in England and could do with a rest on Tuesday. However Woodrow is cup-tied so not sure what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 He had a few oportunities yesterday, but on each occasion he didn't win the ball when he should have or was way to slow. IMO, we've wasted £5 based on what I've seen to date, but time will tell. We certainly are not playing to his strengths, but I'm yet to beconvinced that he has any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said: He had a few oportunities yesterday, but on each occasion he didn't win the ball when he should have or was way to slow. IMO, we've wasted £5 based on what I've seen to date, but time will tell. We certainly are not playing to his strengths, but I'm yet to beconvinced that he has any. If he cost a fiver I doubt we'd mind too much! Joking aside, of course he has strengths, people need to give him a break and let him settle in. He's only played 4 competitive games for us so far scoring once and benefiting Reid's game. We seem to have conveniently forgotten that Kodjia was very fustrating to begin with, frequently offside and very selfish on the ball. He began to iron that out of his game as the season went on but still had flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Between heaven and hell Posted August 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 19 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: If he cost a fiver I doubt we'd mind too much! Joking aside, of course he has strengths, people need to give him a break and let him settle in. He's only played 4 competitive games for us so far scoring once and benefiting Reid's game. We seem to have conveniently forgotten that Kodjia was very fustrating to begin with, frequently offside and very selfish on the ball. He began to iron that out of his game as the season went on but still had flaws. Its a bit of a shame that this thread is starting to suggest that he is not good enough. I think he will be fine but as my original post stated its all about giving the poor bloke some decent service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, Between heaven and hell said: Its a bit of a shame that this thread is starting to suggest that he is not good enough. I think he will be fine but as my original post stated its all about giving the poor bloke some decent service. I think the price tag is a bit of a problem. People expect instant results considering we've broken our record to get him - in some ways that's a reasonable opinion to hold. I think it's natural he will need time to bed in. He's never played outside of France - the style of football and the language are two obstacles although his English seems far better than Kodjia's. Kodjia also 'only' scored once in his first 4 league games too before finding his feet.. because he was quick and exciting to watch though, he got away with it a bit more. By contract Diediou isn't the most aesthetically pleasing player to watch.. he's not particularly quick or skillful in a way that'll get people excited and hasn't had a purple patch with goals yet so people will always notice the flaws in his game. In my opinion he does lots of hard work that goes unnoticed and has actually shown better form than Kodjia did in his first month. I'm impressed so far and he can only get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 Maybe the pitch has been narrowed so we can't be stretched as much rather than so we play more narrowly ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 Gonna stick my neck out there and say, in my opinion, I don't think Diedhiou is up to Championship football and he will not be a success here. Happy to eat humble pie, and I honestly do hope he will be the player we all think £5m should buy. My early impressions though are that I am not convinced - and I think it's an ability thing, not a 'settling in' thing. As I say, I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 7 hours ago, Loosey Boy said: Only a matter of time before Elliason becomes a regular in the side - he looks quality and sense that LJ has been impressed with him in training. Give him an hour on Tuesday and then play him from the off against Villa On what basis do you think he looks quality? The 20 minutes at Birmingham was a mixed bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 7 hours ago, Between heaven and hell said: Good points mate but its all part of the same service issue. Narrow pitch , diamond shaped narrow midfield, full backs not getting forward. Changes in system or personnel are required to offer more opportunities to the big man. It's not a narrow pitch. They've only taken about one yard off the total width. No exact figure available so let's assume 75yds minus 1 = 74yds. Such a minor change, was it worth bothering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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