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Trouble vs Wall!!!!!!!!??????


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On ‎26‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 16:28, poland_exile said:

The police force have a very challenging job outside of football. However, experience suggests they're one of the nastiest mobs of all when it comes to the actual football! the fact that they appear to be brushing this incident off is revealing. 

And for all their community and fan initiatives, well, clearly this case just seems to prove that's all hot air and bluster. 

Imagine for one moment if the copper had been clobbered with a bit of wood by a city fan and it had all been recorded. What would happen? When the boot is on the other foot though, and it's the police dishing it out, don't you get the funny feeling that they're ready to close rank and forget this all happened? 

 

 

99% of firms I'm aware of don't come tooled up and don't see women and children as fair game, nor would they attack parents accompanying their children yet our wonderful Plod find it possible to do all of the above and still escape prosecution?

For balance Id like to add that football supporters of most clubs don't punch horses, hurl racist abuse and play "boob cricket" all together, yet 99% of us do support the prosecution of such absurdity.  

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2 hours ago, JulieH said:

As I have previously said I will again go to my boss and clarify that as it stands there is no complaint received with regards to this incident , therefore I will personally go again to professional standards and show them your private messages to me and ask them to treat the complaint from yourself to ensure it gets investigated as you have requested.

again if at some point you can pm me with contact details , an e mail address is fine and they can update you directly.

 

Bull    shit  police  cover up.

You have absolutely no credibility.

Presumably those who beheaded that poor aid worker on you tube would walk free unless someone complained by your reckoning?

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2 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

And Julie has said she is going to do her level best to ensure that happens? Why are you still berating her. If you ask me, she's gone above and beyond here. Why don't you come to next weeks SC&T meeting? Do you mind me asking who you spoke to from our end? She's asked for your contact details so she can get someone from professional standards to contact you directly, so I'd suggest you do that :) 

Rubbish and you know that Dolly. You do not appear to be neutral here which does you no favours.

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9 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

And Julie has said she is going to do her level best to ensure that happens? Why are you still berating her. If you ask me, she's gone above and beyond here. Why don't you come to next weeks SC&T meeting? Do you mind me asking who you spoke to from our end? She's asked for your contact details so she can get someone from professional standards to contact you directly, so I'd suggest you do that :) 

Why does he need to come to the meeting?

How do YOU know what is being done off this site?

6 hours ago, YorkshireSection said:

Cant you just pass on the footage and info directly to the CPS, I'm sure you'd like to see this thug brought to justice as much as the average football supporter.

THIS is the real question here.... 

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Dear JulieH

I am making an official complaint about the actions of the Police Officer featured in the video on this thread vs Millwall.

I highlight the unprovoked assault on an innocent supporter who was struck in the head by the officer using his baton.

He (The Officer) did not seem in any danger at the time.

Please pass this to the appropriate department to investigate.

 

There you go, will that do?

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18 minutes ago, SX227 said:

Dear JulieH

I am making an official complaint about the actions of the Police Officer featured in the video on this thread vs Millwall.

I highlight the unprovoked assault on an innocent supporter who was struck in the head by the officer using his baton.

He (The Officer) did not seem in any danger at the time.

Please pass this to the appropriate department to investigate.

 

There you go, will that do?

Good stuff, and thanks for responding to my PMs. :clapping:

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11 hours ago, SX227 said:

Dear JulieH

I am making an official complaint about the actions of the Police Officer featured in the video on this thread vs Millwall.

I highlight the unprovoked assault on an innocent supporter who was struck in the head by the officer using his baton.

He (The Officer) did not seem in any danger at the time.

Please pass this to the appropriate department to investigate.

 

There you go, will that do?

Thank you, if u could pm me e mail or relevant contact details I can pass it on to the department who are dealing.

i visited them this morning, gave them all of the messahes received via pm and the link to the clip. I have asked them to investigate based on those messages , and to update me until a complainant becomes obvious who can be updated.

once I pass on your contact details the updates will all be given to yourself. 

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2 hours ago, JulieH said:

Thank you, if u could pm me e mail or relevant contact details I can pass it on to the department who are dealing.

i visited them this morning, gave them all of the messahes received via pm and the link to the clip. I have asked them to investigate based on those messages , and to update me until a complainant becomes obvious who can be updated.

once I pass on your contact details the updates will all be given to yourself. 

I don't really understand the need for such anal protocol. 

Surely there are enough comments on this thread which can legitimately be considered a 'complaint'. 

Why the need for an email and contact names. Can't you act upon the dissatisfaction expressed by many on this thread and use this very medium to "report back". Are anonymous complaints not allowed? Why not take this as a complaint from all who've expressed as such on here as a group complaint.  

Why the need for a written email, when you have the words already written and directly addressed to yourself, as an employee representing the Avon and Somerset constabulary. 

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32 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don't really understand the need for such anal protocol. 

Surely there are enough comments on this thread which can legitimately be considered a 'complaint'. 

Why the need for an email and contact names. Can't you act upon the dissatisfaction expressed by many on this thread and use this very medium to "report back". Are anonymous complaints not allowed? Why not take this as a complaint from all who've expressed as such on here as a group complaint.  

Why the need for a written email, when you have the words already written and directly addressed to yourself, as an employee representing the Avon and Somerset constabulary. 

There is a process to go through, it matters not what line of business you are in, process must be followed, if you agree with it or not.  Its not as if Julie has not stated whet needs to happen, at last someone has met that criteria.

 

For me its an open and shut case, not one other officer drew their battens, and that speaks volumes, this officer looked very much like a football hooligan with his posture, whereas the people they had hemmed in, looked pretty docile, certainly  not your your usual millwall trouble makers.

 

At the end of the day, if there were not so many numpties looking for trouble (albeit much smaller nowadays) my council tax bill would be a lot lower, and the cost of football would be lower, hey ho, some people still need to get their rocks of acting the big I am.  utopia doesn't exist, so unfortunately we have to put up with some officers with the same mindset as those they are trying to control.

 

Me, i'd rather there was no need for the police to attend, but that will never happen, and we all know why.

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43 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don't really understand the need for such anal protocol. 

Surely there are enough comments on this thread which can legitimately be considered a 'complaint'. 

Why the need for an email and contact names. Can't you act upon the dissatisfaction expressed by many on this thread and use this very medium to "report back". Are anonymous complaints not allowed? Why not take this as a complaint from all who've expressed as such on here as a group complaint.  

Why the need for a written email, when you have the words already written and directly addressed to yourself, as an employee representing the Avon and Somerset constabulary. 

It is not just about the complaint but the wishes and views of the complainant that are now also taken into account.

it would not be practical for me to keep coming on here every time the department had a query about this incident, and awaiting a consensus of a reply from a number of people before going back. 

Of course anonymous complaints are allowed however who would then get updated? One of the  themes running through this thread is the lack of updates, yet this is not possible if there is an anonymous complainant, as I would be unable to update anyone!

hopefully all of this has been resolved and a point of contact established who will be able to receive updates from the department and also be in a position to make clear the feelings that you all have surrounding this clip . 

Not sure it is anal protocol , just common sense that if the complainant is anonymous then there can be no updates which is clearly not what needs to happen regarding this incident 

 

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1 hour ago, JulieH said:

It is not just about the complaint but the wishes and views of the complainant that are now also taken into account.

it would not be practical for me to keep coming on here every time the department had a query about this incident, and awaiting a consensus of a reply from a number of people before going back. 

Of course anonymous complaints are allowed however who would then get updated? One of the  themes running through this thread is the lack of updates, yet this is not possible if there is an anonymous complainant, as I would be unable to update anyone!

hopefully all of this has been resolved and a point of contact established who will be able to receive updates from the department and also be in a position to make clear the feelings that you all have surrounding this clip . 

Not sure it is anal protocol , just common sense that if the complainant is anonymous then there can be no updates which is clearly not what needs to happen regarding this incident 

 

Its not so much about someone getting updates Julie, moreso reassurance that the Police are taking action against the Officer filmed ! And reading through the thread it appears the Polices' main stance was "we want a complainant", rather than "We are dealing with said Officer"...... 

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What I don't understand is nothing to do with a complaint. Whoever got hit may not want to take it further, or just doesn't care, I get that. I've seen a lot worse than that over the years, What I don't understand is why no disciplinary action has been mentioned. Any other walk of life someone stepping out of line this much/badly the persons senior, be that manager, foreman or whatever would have given the person who stepped out of line an almighty bollocking. If this had been the case, or at least the statement made ,I think things may have moved on and it forgotten. How it looks is an officer can dish out a few wacks and that's fine , and as long as no real injury sustained or a complaint made they are free to do it again next time.
There is video evidence of an officer over stepping the line , this should mean that complaint or not the  incident is investigated, even if it means a slap on the wrist and an hour or two at anger management .

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41 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

What I don't understand is nothing to do with a complaint. Whoever got hit may not want to take it further, or just doesn't care, I get that. I've seen a lot worse than that over the years, What I don't understand is why no disciplinary action has been mentioned. Any other walk of life someone stepping out of line this much/badly the persons senior, be that manager, foreman or whatever would have given the person who stepped out of line an almighty bollocking. If this had been the case, or at least the statement made ,I think things may have moved on and it forgotten. How it looks is an officer can dish out a few wacks and that's fine , and as long as no real injury sustained or a complaint made they are free to do it again next time.
There is video evidence of an officer over stepping the line , this should mean that complaint or not the  incident is investigated, even if it means a slap on the wrist and an hour or two at anger management .

This is exactly the point myself and others have been getting at.:clap:

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I think it's a case of double Standards. 

The policeman in question was the only one with his baton drawn. He was running up and down the line "ready"

It's an unenviable job. I wouldn't want to do it. But that's his choice. He is a policeman.

To draw on a similar incident. Ben Stokes arrested. CCTV has him on camera punching another person. 

He is detained over night released pending investigation. Police are seeking witnesses and are urged to call. 

It's hard to sit here and see the same police force, seeking witnesses over a brawl in the street and yet have similar footage, for a similar incident and need someone to make a complaint. 

Surely self regulation is the absolute minimum we can expect from our police service. 

We have seen it. The police have seen it. What if that guy had died? Fair question. 

The police officer in question is lucky he didn't. But if he did. Would it take a group of passionate forum members to bring it too justice?

A crime was committed. 

I would fully expect the police to investigate regardless of whether a complaint was made or not. 

If the boot was on the other foot and his photo was distributed nationally seeking him out for assaulting a police officer. People would come forward because they are outraged that a person wound do such a thing. 

However you need no such campaign. You know who it is. You have the evidence. 

Full charges need to be brought and the officer responsible to answer fully for his actions. 

Completely disgusted by this.

Stevo  

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To be fair to @JulieH , nothing I've seen on here has been her saying that they wouldn't investigate. What she repeatedly asked for was somebody to make a formal complaint so that that person could be given the feedback and kept updated .

 

How would you feel if you were under investigation for something and any tom, dick or harriet was able to come onto an internet forum and have a police officer provide updates to all and sundry? The rules in place need to be applied equally - so for updates to us on this to be allowable, updates on any investigation must be, whether or not it could prejudice any action that might be taken. I'm not a lawyer or associated with the police in any way, but I think that she has gone right to the edge of what the "rules" allow in telling us to get somebody to make an official complaint. Despite the hard time several on here are giving her, I think we are lucky to have this point of contact....

 

 

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On 26/09/2017 at 17:04, Loon plage said:

Theres a poster on here who is not a thug by any means, and a respectable businessman who was clumped by a mounted Heddlu whilst doing absolutely nothing, he received a nasty facial injury for his troubles, and when he went through official channels thats exactly what happened.

As you say, definitely a challenging job away from football but too many of them enjoy the matchday experience a little too much for my liking.

Me and a friend both got whacked at Cardiff for nothing - Try telling that to anybody though and the general reaction is ‘ you must have been doing something’ 

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55 minutes ago, semblar said:

To be fair to @JulieH , nothing I've seen on here has been her saying that they wouldn't investigate. What she repeatedly asked for was somebody to make a formal complaint so that that person could be given the feedback and kept updated .

 

How would you feel if you were under investigation for something and any tom, dick or harriet was able to come onto an internet forum and have a police officer provide updates to all and sundry? The rules in place need to be applied equally - so for updates to us on this to be allowable, updates on any investigation must be, whether or not it could prejudice any action that might be taken. I'm not a lawyer or associated with the police in any way, but I think that she has gone right to the edge of what the "rules" allow in telling us to get somebody to make an official complaint. Despite the hard time several on here are giving her, I think we are lucky to have this point of contact....

 

 

With respect at no stage has anyone asked for regular updates and an inquiry conducted via OTIB!

All people were expecting @JulieH to say was A & S were aware of the video evidence and that she couldn't comment further as there was an ongoing internal investigation being conducted.

When this wasn't forthcoming it became blatently obvious that PC 'Heavy handed' was not being investigated through any internal channels despite the glaring evidence

Her response of

''It would not be practical for me to keep coming on here every time the department had a query about this incident, and awaiting a consensus of a reply from a number of people before going back. 

Of course anonymous complaints are allowed however who would then get updated? One of the  themes running through this thread is the lack of updates, yet this is not possible if there is an anonymous complainant, as I would be unable to update anyone!''

is just bizzare because as far as I can see noone was calling for or expecting endless feedback or updates!

If our Police forces up & down the country have no due process of self regulation then that is seriously flawed and worrying.

I'd love to hear @Fordy62 's take but fully appreciate/understand he may not want to pass comment. To be fair he may well have as I skimmed through a number of pages

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1 hour ago, RaspberryRed said:

With respect at no stage has anyone asked for regular updates and an inquiry conducted via OTIB!

All people were expecting @JulieH to say was A & S were aware of the video evidence and that she couldn't comment further as there was an ongoing internal investigation being conducted.

When this wasn't forthcoming it became blatently obvious that PC 'Heavy handed' was not being investigated through any internal channels despite the glaring evidence

Her response of

''It would not be practical for me to keep coming on here every time the department had a query about this incident, and awaiting a consensus of a reply from a number of people before going back. 

Of course anonymous complaints are allowed however who would then get updated? One of the  themes running through this thread is the lack of updates, yet this is not possible if there is an anonymous complainant, as I would be unable to update anyone!''

is just bizzare because as far as I can see noone was calling for or expecting endless feedback or updates!

If our Police forces up & down the country have no due process of self regulation then that is seriously flawed and worrying.

I'd love to hear @Fordy62 's take but fully appreciate/understand he may not want to pass comment. To be fair he may well have as I skimmed through a number of pages

This. :clap:

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1 hour ago, RaspberryRed said:

With respect at no stage has anyone asked for regular updates and an inquiry conducted via OTIB!

All people were expecting @JulieH to say was A & S were aware of the video evidence and that she couldn't comment further as there was an ongoing internal investigation being conducted.

When this wasn't forthcoming it became blatently obvious that PC 'Heavy handed' was not being investigated through any internal channels despite the glaring evidence

Her response of

''It would not be practical for me to keep coming on here every time the department had a query about this incident, and awaiting a consensus of a reply from a number of people before going back. 

Of course anonymous complaints are allowed however who would then get updated? One of the  themes running through this thread is the lack of updates, yet this is not possible if there is an anonymous complainant, as I would be unable to update anyone!''

is just bizzare because as far as I can see noone was calling for or expecting endless feedback or updates!

If our Police forces up & down the country have no due process of self regulation then that is seriously flawed and worrying.

I'd love to hear @Fordy62 's take but fully appreciate/understand he may not want to pass comment. To be fair he may well have as I skimmed through a number of pages

1. If I had been hit like that, I'd be complaining. 

2. If I had been hit like that, I would not be looking to go back in for seconds (Correct me if I'm wrong, but he does do that doesn't he?)

3. Situations like that are very difficult for the police. What we see on the video has the potential to be a large scale disorder where in reality the crowd could completely annihilate the police if they really wanted. It's all very well watching the video, but that's really only a small proportion of the evidence. 

4. It's nigh on impossible to investigate an alleged assault without a complainant. I don't know if there was one in this case, but without one, who provides the key evidence? Sure there's a video, but on its own, in the circumstances isn't clear cut enough to stand alone. 

5. I'm not sure what JulieH has said on the matter, but there's every chance she'd be unaware of the progress of any investigation into the matter, if there is indeed one. She's football liaison as far as I'm aware. "I've got some baying fans on OTIB" wouldn't be reason enough for the professional standards at A&S to let her know anything about it. It'd be nothing to do with her and quite rightly so.

6. I haven't read all the thread, but I'd guess the chap hit with the baton would be getting fairly regular updates - if he complained. My experience of our Professional Standards is that they're not quite as keen to protect their own as you might think. 

Thats about as much as I can think to say. 

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36 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

Fair play to @KevP for taking the time to follow this up. Let's not let them brush this under the carpet. Has anybody contacted Millwall to see if we can identify the fan involved?

I simply wanted to hear that it was being investigated and that proper action would be taken against the Officer. Many on here clearly agree....reading the posts in this and the Cardiff date change thread I was not convinced it was going anywhere hence I pursued it including a number of PMS with various people and Julie. Not sure if anyone has been into Millwall Forum. Feel free......I've spent enough time on this already !

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