Trouble vs Wall!!!!!!!!??????

[Super]

They will just argue that they shouldn't have been trying to storm the police line. Not saying they are right though

[Natchfever]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

1. If I had been hit like that, I'd be complaining. 

2. If I had been hit like that, I would not be looking to go back in for seconds (Correct me if I'm wrong, but he does do that doesn't he?)

3. Situations like that are very difficult for the police. What we see on the video has the potential to be a large scale disorder where in reality the crowd could completely annihilate the police if they really wanted. It's all very well watching the video, but that's really only a small proportion of the evidence. 

4. It's nigh on impossible to investigate an alleged assault without a complainant. I don't know if there was one in this case, but without one, who provides the key evidence? Sure there's a video, but on its own, in the circumstances isn't clear cut enough to stand alone. 

5. I'm not sure what JulieH has said on the matter, but there's every chance she'd be unaware of the progress of any investigation into the matter, if there is indeed one. She's football liaison as far as I'm aware. "I've got some baying fans on OTIB" wouldn't be reason enough for the professional standards at A&S to let her know anything about it. It'd be nothing to do with her and quite rightly so.

6. I haven't read all the thread, but I'd guess the chap hit with the baton would be getting fairly regular updates - if he complained. My experience of our Professional Standards is that they're not quite as keen to protect their own as you might think. 

Thats about as much as I can think to say. 

So are you saying that if cctv picked up a City fan "windmilling" amongst a set of away fans, connecting with at least one, and ASP knew who that person was, that they would take no action unless one of those struck made a formal complaint ?

Sounds to me like no one is going to make a complaint because OB has it all lined up that the victim was "going back in for seconds" - foregone conclusion over how a conversation with that person will go isn't it "drop it son or we will pinch you"

I think that whilst your Professional Standards will get stuck into wrongdoing elsewhere, football fans are seen as a "free hit"

I suspect this isn't going to go away though.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I notice someone has now tweeted FSF Faircop with the video.

All publicity, etc. Apparently they have seen it but nobody has contacted them directly about it.

[Fordy62]

12 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

So are you saying that if cctv picked up a City fan "windmilling" amongst a set of away fans, connecting with at least one, and ASP knew who that person was, that they would take no action unless one of those struck made a formal complaint ?

a reasonable point, however without said complainant you'd be struggling to make a public order act offence stick with the video alone.

Sounds to me like no one is going to make a complaint because OB has it all lined up that the victim was "going back in for seconds" - foregone conclusion over how a conversation with that person will go isn't it "drop it son or we will pinch you"

in fairness I'm not sure that's hold much weight given that he seemingly wasn't arrested at the time, but undoubedtly there could be people who might try such things.

I think that whilst your Professional Standards will get stuck into wrongdoing elsewhere, football fans are seen as a "free hit"

another interesting point. I can't say I view things that way, but it wouldn't surprise me if some did. There are bell ends in all walks of life, not least in the police.

I suspect this isn't going to go away though.

 

[RaspberryRed]

4 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

1. If I had been hit like that, I'd be complaining. 

2. If I had been hit like that, I would not be looking to go back in for seconds (Correct me if I'm wrong, but he does do that doesn't he?)

3. Situations like that are very difficult for the police. What we see on the video has the potential to be a large scale disorder where in reality the crowd could completely annihilate the police if they really wanted. It's all very well watching the video, but that's really only a small proportion of the evidence. 

4. It's nigh on impossible to investigate an alleged assault without a complainant. I don't know if there was one in this case, but without one, who provides the key evidence? Sure there's a video, but on its own, in the circumstances isn't clear cut enough to stand alone. 

5. I'm not sure what JulieH has said on the matter, but there's every chance she'd be unaware of the progress of any investigation into the matter, if there is indeed one. She's football liaison as far as I'm aware. "I've got some baying fans on OTIB" wouldn't be reason enough for the professional standards at A&S to let her know anything about it. It'd be nothing to do with her and quite rightly so.

6. I haven't read all the thread, but I'd guess the chap hit with the baton would be getting fairly regular updates - if he complained. My experience of our Professional Standards is that they're not quite as keen to protect their own as you might think. 

Thats about as much as I can think to say. 

Very much appreciate you taking time to write such a candid reply.

I hope I don't come across anti police as that's certainly not the case. I'm sure 99% of people along with myself immensely appreciate what a herculean task yourself and your colleagues perform on a daily basis more often than not under much adversity. 

As you said bad apples in all walks but everyone including the OB are responsible for their conduct in line with their duty

 

[Rob k]

38 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

So are you saying that if cctv picked up a City fan "windmilling" amongst a set of away fans, connecting with at least one, and ASP knew who that person was, that they would take no action unless one of those struck made a formal complaint ?

This is what I want to know as I don’t believe what’s being said.

If i whack someone at Football and get caught on CCTV but nobody makes a complaint would I just ‘get away with it’ and be considered ‘lucky’ or would I get arrested once identified at the next game?

(I’m fairly sure I know the answer by the way)

 

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

5 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

1. If I had been hit like that, I'd be complaining. 

2. If I had been hit like that, I would not be looking to go back in for seconds (Correct me if I'm wrong, but he does do that doesn't he?)

3. Situations like that are very difficult for the police. What we see on the video has the potential to be a large scale disorder where in reality the crowd could completely annihilate the police if they really wanted. It's all very well watching the video, but that's really only a small proportion of the evidence. 

4. It's nigh on impossible to investigate an alleged assault without a complainant. I don't know if there was one in this case, but without one, who provides the key evidence? Sure there's a video, but on its own, in the circumstances isn't clear cut enough to stand alone. 

5. I'm not sure what JulieH has said on the matter, but there's every chance she'd be unaware of the progress of any investigation into the matter, if there is indeed one. She's football liaison as far as I'm aware. "I've got some baying fans on OTIB" wouldn't be reason enough for the professional standards at A&S to let her know anything about it. It'd be nothing to do with her and quite rightly so.

6. I haven't read all the thread, but I'd guess the chap hit with the baton would be getting fairly regular updates - if he complained. My experience of our Professional Standards is that they're not quite as keen to protect their own as you might think. 

Thats about as much as I can think to say. 

Let's make this easy shall we.

1). Only 1 officer in that video was holding his baton in a threatening way almost for the entirety of the video and moving around constantly unlike all of his colleagues, who all stayed in position, he had the look of somebody trying to start something somewhere, somehow.

2). Would he have acted the way that he did had he known if he knew he was being videoed?.

3). if that was you Fordy in that video would you not be just a tad bit worried?.

As for the highlighted portion do the police not use any more the addition of 'person or persons unknown'?.

And just one last point, just off of the top of your head what do you think would happen if the complainant came forward?, do you think it will be "welcome mate, we've been waiting for you to make a complaint, come on in, take a seat" or "your'e ******* nicked mate".

 

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

 

@Fordy62 You certainly come across as one of the good guys.

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

13 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

@Fordy62 You certainly come across as one of the good guys.

Dear oh dear... the forum hits a new low..... hes from Cam.... that is all....

[Fordy62]

37 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Let's make this easy shall we.

1). Only 1 officer in that video was holding his baton in a threatening way almost for the entirety of the video and moving around constantly unlike all of his colleagues, who all stayed in position, he had the look of somebody trying to start something somewhere, somehow.

2). Would he have acted the way that he did had he known if he knew he was being videoed?.

3). if that was you Fordy in that video would you not be just a tad bit worried?.

As for the highlighted portion do the police not use any more the addition of 'person or persons unknown'?.

And just one last point, just off of the top of your head what do you think would happen if the complainant came forward?, do you think it will be "welcome mate, we've been waiting for you to make a complaint, come on in, take a seat" or "your'e ******* nicked mate".

 

Hi Es, how are you mate? Good questions;

1. No comment. 

2. I'd wager not. 

3. Yes. However, the most horrendous looking of actions can be wholly justifiable at the time. 

Persons or persons unknown, specifically in the assault bracket - we do run victimless assaults, but they tend to be domestic violence cases. I suppose in this case there could be a factor we're all completely blissfully unaware of, like maybe the officer saw a knife in the chaps waistband - I know this is hardly likely, but without someone to give his side of a story, it's remains a possibility however slim. 

And no. I definitely think that if a compliant came forward they wouldn't be nicked. I think they'd be treated quite well as it happens. 

[phantom]

Just curious how it works when someone makes an anonymous complaint via Crimestoppers etc

[Esmond Million's Bung]

9 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Hi Es, how are you mate? Good questions;

1. No comment. 

2. I'd wager not. 

3. Yes. However, the most horrendous looking of actions can be wholly justifiable at the time. 

Persons or persons unknown, specifically in the assault bracket - we do run victimless assaults, but they tend to be domestic violence cases. I suppose in this case there could be a factor we're all completely blissfully unaware of, like maybe the officer saw a knife in the chaps waistband - I know this is hardly likely, but without someone to give his side of a story, it's remains a possibility however slim. 

And no. I definitely think that if a compliant came forward they wouldn't be nicked. I think they'd be treated quite well as it happens. 

Hi I am ok although have a trapped nerve in my back, am on my way to see my physio for a beating or is it S & M night, old timers disease.

Your answers tell me all I need to know, I suspect that in reality the officer will at least be receiving rather pointed 'advice' and maybe a 're-programming' course for use of baton etc. and at worse withdrawal from public order duty until a resolution is decided.

[Fordy62]

28 minutes ago, phantom said:

Just curious how it works when someone makes an anonymous complaint via Crimestoppers etc

You can't really make an anonymous complain through CS so far as I'm aware. It's mainly for giving us names when we're struggling. 

[Dollymarie]

2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

You can't really make an anonymous complain through CS so far as I'm aware. It's mainly for giving us names when we're struggling. 

I reported a neighbour anonymously who was repeatedly drunk driving. This was back in the very late 90's. I didn't want to give my details because he would have known it was me based on what I told them. I relayed all this to them. They caught him because based on the timings etc I gave them, they put a plain clothes officer on him, and then when he drove away from the pub, they called in uniformed officers who stopped and arrested him. 

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

I reported a neighbour anonymously who was repeatedly drunk driving. This was back in the very late 90's. I didn't want to give my details because he would have known it was me based on what I told them. I relayed all this to them. They caught him because based on the timings etc I gave them, they put a plain clothes officer on him, and then when he drove away from the pub, they called in uniformed officers who stopped and arrested him. 

Ahhh. I suppose things like that it's good for, but I suppose that's kind of different. That must've been right back in the day... spare resources!

[JulieH]

10 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

1. If I had been hit like that, I'd be complaining. 

2. If I had been hit like that, I would not be looking to go back in for seconds (Correct me if I'm wrong, but he does do that doesn't he?)

3. Situations like that are very difficult for the police. What we see on the video has the potential to be a large scale disorder where in reality the crowd could completely annihilate the police if they really wanted. It's all very well watching the video, but that's really only a small proportion of the evidence. 

4. It's nigh on impossible to investigate an alleged assault without a complainant. I don't know if there was one in this case, but without one, who provides the key evidence? Sure there's a video, but on its own, in the circumstances isn't clear cut enough to stand alone. 

5. I'm not sure what JulieH has said on the matter, but there's every chance she'd be unaware of the progress of any investigation into the matter, if there is indeed one. She's football liaison as far as I'm aware. "I've got some baying fans on OTIB" wouldn't be reason enough for the professional standards at A&S to let her know anything about it. It'd be nothing to do with her and quite rightly so.

6. I haven't read all the thread, but I'd guess the chap hit with the baton would be getting fairly regular updates - if he complained. My experience of our Professional Standards is that they're not quite as keen to protect their own as you might think. 

Thats about as much as I can think to say. 

At this time the male in question has not made a complaint or been identified 

[class_not_gas]

18 minutes ago, JulieH said:

At this time the male in question has not made a complaint or been identified 

He would of been identified in no time if the roles we're reversed 

[Coombsy]

I don't understand this 

he's seen on video but until the bloke he hit there will be no follow up

when I get caught speeding by a speed camera van ( only a photo taken)

I get a fine and points

I will like to know who came forward to make a complaint about me ?

[The Constant Rabbit]

Official complaint made

I am liasing with JulieH on this.

Not being in UK at the moment makes it safer to prevent any 'blowback'

I will keep you all updated on the enquiry as I get info.

[Portland Bill]

3 hours ago, JulieH said:

At this time the male in question has not made a complaint or been identified 

Julie, call me a cynic if you wish, but if "the male in question" had done something wrong, do you not think he would have been found by now!.

Edit, I see 'class not gas' beat me to it!.

[class_not_gas]

4 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Julie, call me a cynic if you wish, but if "the male in question" had done something wrong, do you not think he would have been found by now!.

Found , banned and a 5 year banning order guaranteed 

[42nite]

9 hours ago, class_not_gas said:

He would of been identified in no time if the roles we're reversed 

 

Probably worried he may end up being charged with inciting a riot.

 

[The Constant Rabbit]

UPDATE:

I have been contacted by an officer from Professional Standards Department, Avon and Somerset Police who have assigned an investigator.

The officer is commencing her investigation after collecting my personal details  - I will update as info is received from the Police.

Well done to Officer Julie (name removed) following up on her promise  to forward the complaint.

That's all I have for now.

 

 

[RedM]

@SX227 I've removed Julie's surname as I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before on here. I'm not trying to hide anything, I would do the same for anyone else. If she wants her name known I'm sure she will come along and say. @JulieH

[JulieH]

Thank you for the update.

they were amazingly quick at contacting , I only sent them the details yesterday. 

[The Constant Rabbit]

UPDATE:

Complaint rejected. In less than 2 hours. This stinks.

"Essentially as you have not witnessed the incident first hand and only via the DashCam footage, you are unable to pursue a complaint." 

 

[View from the Dolman]

31 minutes ago, SX227 said:

UPDATE:

Complaint rejected. In less than 2 hours. This stinks.

"Essentially as you have not witnessed the incident first hand and only via the DashCam footage, you are unable to pursue a complaint." 

 

Have they explained if you can escalate? Chief Constable or IPCC?

[ZiderEyed]

34 minutes ago, SX227 said:

UPDATE:

Complaint rejected. In less than 2 hours. This stinks.

"Essentially as you have not witnessed the incident first hand and only via the DashCam footage, you are unable to pursue a complaint." 

 

So conclusive footage of a policeman using unnecessary force on a member of the public means nothing? Everything must be witnessed first hand? Get rid of CCTV then. This reeks.

[The Constant Rabbit]

Even though they need an eyewitness this was the response - how can they investigate without a complainant as JulieH wanted?

"However, let me assure you that our Department are reviewing this incident and taking the necessary action."

 

[redysteadygo1]

Why does the Government website state you can report a crime or anti social behaviour to Crimestoppers if you wish to remain anonymous.

Surely this means they would have to investigate the report and evidence provided even though they do not know who made the report or whether they were a witness.