Red Army 75 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 On 27/09/2017 at 21:26, Dollymarie said: And Julie has said she is going to do her level best to ensure that happens? Why are you still berating her. If you ask me, she's gone above and beyond here. Why don't you come to next weeks SC&T meeting? Do you mind me asking who you spoke to from our end? She's asked for your contact details so she can get someone from professional standards to contact you directly, so I'd suggest you do that That post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevP Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 14 minutes ago, Dollymarie said: So can we try and contact Milwall fans somehow and get them to try and work out who it was, so a complaint can be made by them? I've posted some options above that came to me from a former Police Super....so they are perfectly credible. I'm doing all I can in the time I have to get some justice here. The closer footage just posted shows this is even worse than I first thought ! And for it to be apparently "dismissed" in 2 hours is demoralising for many on here and no doubt JulieH so more people need to step up and do a bit so to speak, including the Millwall Forum. I've alerted the Post anyway..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said: That post Yes and that was the right thing to say. Now professional standards have ducked out of it because they said the complaint needs to come from the victim themselves, then that's what needs to happen surely? Before that fans our side were acting on our own volition based on what they had been told by Julie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, Dollymarie said: Yes and that was the right thing to say. Now professional standards have ducked out of it because they said the complaint needs to come from the victim themselves, then that's what needs to happen surely? Before that fans our side were acting on our own volition based on what they had been told by Julie. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Just some pure speculation here... Some went 'looking for it'. They got it, albeit from a different 'firm'. Acknowledged what went on. Shook hands and then moved on ..... or.... This group of kindly London Gents went searching for somewhere nice to sit for a picnic and share some cumcumber sandwiches with their bestest Bristol friends, got clobbered. Bloke suffered amnesia so didn't report it. Ummm... with the individual not making a complaint I suspect which is the likelier of the two scenarios. Deeply unpopular view maybes, but struth, some need to have witnessed the 'entertainment' provided by the superintendent who 'policed' the zone between home and away fans on the old Park End! Nothwithstanding all that police have not handled this 'complaint' at all well, aside from our Julie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevP Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Moor2Sea said: Just some pure speculation here... Some went 'looking for it'. They got it, albeit from a different 'firm'. Acknowledged what went on. Shook hands and then moved on ..... or.... This group of kindly London Gents went searching for somewhere nice to sit for a picnic and share some cumcumber sandwiches with their bestest Bristol friends, got clobbered. Bloke suffered amnesia so didn't report it. Ummm... with the individual not making a complaint I suspect which is the likelier of the two scenarios. Deeply unpopular view maybes, but struth, some need to have witnessed the 'entertainment' provided by the superintendent who 'policed' the zone between home and away fans on the old Park End! Nothwithstanding all that police have not handled this 'complaint' at all well, aside from our Julie. The victim was told " Now listen mate, you're lucky you didn't get arrested right so let's just call in quits eh ?". They then shake hands. Notice for the first time another OB starts filming the "peacemaking process". So what's all the fuss about...??? they shook, and not one complaint from the the victim came forth. Clever clever OB.....Wonder what the Post and FST et al make of it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Constant Rabbit Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 5 hours ago, Dollymarie said: So can we try and contact Milwall fans somehow and get them to try and work out who it was, so a complaint can be made by them? I tried on vitalfootball (Millwall) and was told to basically sod off by a mod. There is a forum some of their 'lads' use, 'Lions Den' maybe, but I can't find it. This has been reported to: The Police FSF Evening Post One Millwall forum (no response) over 500,000 views. As our club pay for some, if not all of the Policing costs, I'd be horrified that the "Tactical Advisor" was allowed within 5 miles of AG again. Total PR disaster for the Police. Not bloody good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poland_exile Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 44 minutes ago, SX227 said: I tried on vitalfootball (Millwall) and was told to basically sod off by a mod. There is a forum some of their 'lads' use, 'Lions Den' maybe, but I can't find it. This has been reported to: The Police FSF Evening Post One Millwall forum (no response) over 500,000 views. As our club pay for some, if not all of the Policing costs, I'd be horrified that the "Tactical Advisor" was allowed within 5 miles of AG again. Total PR disaster for the Police. Not bloody good enough. and aside from the police closing ranks, you've got the superfans of OTIB crying that we're not being fair on Julie. sorry for hurting your feelings if that's the case J, but i bet it don't hurt as much as being smacked on the bonce with a big stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Just to remind everyone the SC&T are still fighting (and have been paying for a solicitor) a case on behalf of a group of our fans against WMP from almost 2 years ago now, where fans were wrongly treated by police, and in that case Julie has given a statement to the effect that fans weren't fairly treated. She's now being put through the mill by her own establishment. (Not A&S I'm pleased to say) That's the only reason I am saying procedure needs to be followed (and we now need to try and find this Milwall fan) because that way this officer can't wriggle out of what they have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Constant Rabbit Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 37 minutes ago, Dollymarie said: Just to remind everyone the SC&T are still fighting (and have been paying for a solicitor) a case on behalf of a group of our fans against WMP from almost 2 years ago now, where fans were wrongly treated by police, and in that case Julie has given a statement to the effect that fans weren't fairly treated. She's now being put through the mill by her own establishment. (Not A&S I'm pleased to say) That's the only reason I am saying procedure needs to be followed (and we now need to try and find this Milwall fan) because that way this officer can't wriggle out of what they have done. Try joining their forums or as a member of the SC&T why not try to reach out to their equivalent. I'll ask again - can the guy who uploaded the video not make a complaint himself - he IS an eyewitness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Old Boy Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Who’s posted/filmed the actual incident? There’s the required witness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Dollymarie said: Just to remind everyone the SC&T are still fighting (and have been paying for a solicitor) a case on behalf of a group of our fans against WMP from almost 2 years ago now, where fans were wrongly treated by police, and in that case Julie has given a statement to the effect that fans weren't fairly treated. She's now being put through the mill by her own establishment. (Not A&S I'm pleased to say) That's the only reason I am saying procedure needs to be followed (and we now need to try and find this Milwall fan) because that way this officer can't wriggle out of what they have done. As this is going through legal proceedings, is it wise to comment on what @JulieH has said? Also, I doubt Julie's managers and colleagues would appreciate her telling a member of the public their view, and then having it posted it on a public forum. just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 25 minutes ago, Henry said: As this is going through legal proceedings, is it wise to comment on what @JulieH has said? Also, I doubt Julie's managers and colleagues would appreciate her telling a member of the public their view, and then having it posted it on a public forum. just a thought It's all in the public domain so there's no worry there. All on the SC&T website minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 30 minutes ago, Dollymarie said: It's all in the public domain so there's no worry there. All on the SC&T website minutes. Have you got a link to those minutes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 8 minutes ago, Henry said: Have you got a link to those minutes? You'll have to scroll back through the last couple of years. Mentioned on several occasions http://bristolcitysupporters.org/category/minutes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 19 hours ago, frenchred said: Did anyone expect anything different from the biggest organised mob in the UK? Roles reversed and we would be treated like shit. Notice the "liaison officer" has backed off quicker than the Italian army! Didn't the Italians design/operate the only tank with 15 reverse gears???... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 On 05/10/2017 at 08:50, Mr Popodopolous said: I would suggest in addition to IPCC, analysing a list of lawyers who specialise in police corruption. One who worked on Hillsborough are worth looking at...Bindman's. Also- and this maybe an after the horse has bolted type q- are we absolutely sure, have we absolutely established the fact that it was an Avon & Somerset officer? Remember Devon & Cornwall have been seen at games before, as have other regional forces? Devon & Cornwall OB were at the Millwall game! Unfortunately, you do reap what you sew sometimes although the OB are blatantly in the wrong on this one. Imagine if it was the other way around. You have to take the rough with the smooth sometimes at football. Just a fact of life. I was whacked at QPR away one year by Met OB and just had to put it down to another "experience" at footie (was quite proud of the bruise for a week/warwound) Years ago, this happened regularly at footie. Also remember the OB being attacked by City fans at Plymouth away one year (KW Boogie bus boys if anyone is ITK), and felt quite sorry for the OB as it "came on em". Some you win, some you lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Simpson Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 30 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said: Didn't the Italians design/operate the only tank with 15 reverse gears???... Yes, and one forward gear just in case they got attacked from behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 26 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said: Devon & Cornwall OB were at the Millwall game! Unfortunately, you do reap what you sew sometimes although the OB are blatantly in the wrong on this one. Imagine if it was the other way around. You have to take the rough with the smooth sometimes at football. Just a fact of life. I was whacked at QPR away one year by Met OB and just had to put it down to another "experience" at footie (was quite proud of the bruise for a week/warwound) Years ago, this happened regularly at footie. Also remember the OB being attacked by City fans at Plymouth away one year (KW Boogie bus boys if anyone is ITK), and felt quite sorry for the OB as it "came on em". Some you win, some you lose. This is also true. I believe @spudski mentioned similar about the risks of football abroad, you may get a whack wrong place wrong time etc. FWIW, I don't think much will come of this- but you never know- but I don't think much will come of this in terms of desired outcome because look how long mistreatment at Birmingham away 2 years ago has been rumbling on- 2 years and still no resolution yet. The fact the SAG- of which the police are certainly a part- choose to hold their meetings seemingly in secret and no publishing of the info, tells us all we need to know really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Fred Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 48 minutes ago, Homer Simpson said: Yes, and one forward gear just in case they got attacked from behind. Geared as reverse in both directions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 On 05/10/2017 at 08:52, 29AR said: Just did a quick bit of research. The Police Reform Act 2002 at s.12 deals with complaints. There is a subsection for persons adversely affected but not on the receiving end (s.12(1)(b))... but s.12(4) discounts any complaints by persons adversely affected unless they were present or sufficiently nearby (s.12(4)(a)), or aggravated by being already known (s.12(4)(b). Seems they may be relying on this legislation to dismiss the complaint. Very salient point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Whilst I don't agree with the reaction of the Police officer striking the member of the public...I'm at a loss as to why other people feel the need to get involved in this. Surely if the member of the public had a problem with it, he would have made a complaint? Why are others trying to make the complaint for him? It's like when people are offended for others feelings and want to get involved. Why get involved? The simple fact is, the Police told them not to walk through that area. For their protection and for the protection of others. Why not, just turn around, do as you're asked, wait 5 mins for the crowds to abate, then walk back calmly. These fans didn't...they kept arguing and trying to push their way through. Then it escalated. People always want to blame others, for their reactions ( which I stress were wrong )....however they never want to blame their own initial actions. Walk away as asked...and there wouldn't have been a problem. Simple. Perhaps the member of the public realises this. Hence no complaint made on his part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 6, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 4 minutes ago, spudski said: Why are others trying to make the complaint for him? It's like when people are offended for others feelings and want to get involved. Why get involved? Walk away as asked...and there wouldn't have been a problem. Simple. Simply answer is that the innocent person could be you or a friend of yours next time @spudski If you watch the video you can clearly see he is kettled in and being pushed from the other side into the police line - the Millwall fans were all hearded together into that area so had no choice where to walk and no chance to walk away from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 9 minutes ago, spudski said: Whilst I don't agree with the reaction of the Police officer striking the member of the public...I'm at a loss as to why other people feel the need to get involved in this. Surely if the member of the public had a problem with it, he would have made a complaint? Why are others trying to make the complaint for him? It's like when people are offended for others feelings and want to get involved. Why get involved? The simple fact is, the Police told them not to walk through that area. For their protection and for the protection of others. Why not, just turn around, do as you're asked, wait 5 mins for the crowds to abate, then walk back calmly. These fans didn't...they kept arguing and trying to push their way through. Then it escalated. People always want to blame others, for their reactions ( which I stress were wrong )....however they never want to blame their own initial actions. Walk away as asked...and there wouldn't have been a problem. Simple. Perhaps the member of the public realises this. Hence no complaint made on his part. he probably also realises that (by making a complaint) he would be in effect be sticking a target on his back, and risk getting nicked for any perceived future misdemeanor at matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 16 hours ago, Dollymarie said: Because the officer shouldn't have acted as they did, and so if SX227 can't take things forward for the reasons given, the person in the footage can? But it's down to the bloke to put in a complaint surely? he obviously hasn't so people need to let it go on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaspberryRed Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 14 minutes ago, spudski said: Whilst I don't agree with the reaction of the Police officer striking the member of the public...I'm at a loss as to why other people feel the need to get involved in this. Surely if the member of the public had a problem with it, he would have made a complaint? Why are others trying to make the complaint for him? It's like when people are offended for others feelings and want to get involved. Why get involved? The simple fact is, the Police told them not to walk through that area. For their protection and for the protection of others. Why not, just turn around, do as you're asked, wait 5 mins for the crowds to abate, then walk back calmly. These fans didn't...they kept arguing and trying to push their way through. Then it escalated. People always want to blame others, for their reactions ( which I stress were wrong )....however they never want to blame their own initial actions. Walk away as asked...and there wouldn't have been a problem. Simple. Perhaps the member of the public realises this. Hence no complaint made on his part. My issue with that was (much to my amazement) was that the Police wanted them to go through the park where the larger scale dissorder took place. To me that was the most bizzare Police tactic on the day. It all seemed orchestrated and inevitable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 It's more general picture than specific to this, but how well do those who police City games engage with fans in meetings such as this? I know Julie does a solid job on here but in terms of such things as above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonPark Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 6 hours ago, Dollymarie said: Just to remind everyone the SC&T are still fighting (and have been paying for a solicitor) a case on behalf of a group of our fans against WMP from almost 2 years ago now, where fans were wrongly treated by police, and in that case Julie has given a statement to the effect that fans weren't fairly treated. She's now being put through the mill by her own establishment. (Not A&S I'm pleased to say) That's the only reason I am saying procedure needs to be followed (and we now need to try and find this Milwall fan) because that way this officer can't wriggle out of what they have done. Hi Dolly, I was one of the fans who got turned back from birmingham, i did nothing wrong and didnt warrant being turned back. Now i fully accept what you are saying about Julie helping now, but at the time it appeared she did anything but help city fans. When i was in one of the groups that was stopped, the commander on the megaphone from West Mids went "You are all known football hooligans, and will be turned back" etc, now Julie was stood next to that commander at no point during any of the time she was there, did it appear she did anything to help city fans at that point. Surely she could of pointed out "Actually sir, there not all known hooligans, are you sure this is a good idea" etc. I suspect any help afterwards, i would think is down to a feeling of thinking she needs to do something, both for West midlands plus avon and somerset in a matter of saving face. As it was clearly wrong what they did that day. Why wait for a complaint to be made via the courts for the police who was there on the day to help. For the record, i didn't come forward to help in the court case as i genuinely think it will make the said fans who go through the courts a target for police at future games and i expect when there finally is an outcome it wont be one we think it should be. Cheers AshtonPark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abraham Romanovich Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 59 minutes ago, spudski said: Whilst I don't agree with the reaction of the Police officer striking the member of the public...I'm at a loss as to why other people feel the need to get involved in this. Surely if the member of the public had a problem with it, he would have made a complaint? Why are others trying to make the complaint for him? It's like when people are offended for others feelings and want to get involved. Why get involved? The simple fact is, the Police told them not to walk through that area. For their protection and for the protection of others. Why not, just turn around, do as you're asked, wait 5 mins for the crowds to abate, then walk back calmly. These fans didn't...they kept arguing and trying to push their way through. Then it escalated. People always want to blame others, for their reactions ( which I stress were wrong )....however they never want to blame their own initial actions. Walk away as asked...and there wouldn't have been a problem. Simple. Perhaps the member of the public realises this. Hence no complaint made on his part. Very strange arguement and to be honest a bit worrying. We are talking about a baton wielding thug who is a policeman, from his actions alone his superiors should be questioning his suitability for the role . Unfortunately the next instance where he loses his cool may have far more serious ramifications for the people he is suppose to be "policing" "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, spudski said: Whilst I don't agree with the reaction of the Police officer striking the member of the public...I'm at a loss as to why other people feel the need to get involved in this. Surely if the member of the public had a problem with it, he would have made a complaint? Why are others trying to make the complaint for him? It's like when people are offended for others feelings and want to get involved. Why get involved? The simple fact is, the Police told them not to walk through that area. For their protection and for the protection of others. Why not, just turn around, do as you're asked, wait 5 mins for the crowds to abate, then walk back calmly. These fans didn't...they kept arguing and trying to push their way through. Then it escalated. People always want to blame others, for their reactions ( which I stress were wrong )....however they never want to blame their own initial actions. Walk away as asked...and there wouldn't have been a problem. Simple. Perhaps the member of the public realises this. Hence no complaint made on his part. The officer is a servant of the public and should answer to the public for such actions. I am all for not getting offended on someone else's behalf, but when an Officer of the law strikes a member of the public those actions should always be scrutinised - sometimes the actions justified, othertimes not. A man in that role with a temper is very volatile, that's why he should be questioned over his actions to see if this officer has a temper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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