Natchfever Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, 29AR said: The officer is a servant of the public and should answer to the public for such actions. I am all for not getting offended on someone else's behalf, but when an Officer of the law strikes a member of the public those actions should always be scrutinised - sometimes the actions justified, othertimes not. A man in that role with a temper is very volatile, that's why he should be questioned over his actions to see if this officer has a temper. Quite so. I could be wrong, but no other police officer appeared to feel the need to swing a baton aroung in that video clip ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 hours ago, phantom said: Simply answer is that the innocent person could be you or a friend of yours next time @spudski If you watch the video you can clearly see he is kettled in and being pushed from the other side into the police line - the Millwall fans were all hearded together into that area so had no choice where to walk and no chance to walk away from it That's not true at all mate. He's one of the first to turn up, and is clearly being asked by the Policewoman to go another way...she points to his left, away from the park. To go up the road. He stands and starts arguing. That's when more people join him and they all start pushing and shoving and giving verbals. Why can no one see that these fans have created a situation? They've been asked to go another way, yet still continue to argue, get hostile and abusive and start to jostle. Why can't they be accountable for their own actions? Why do the Police get the blame for this? Yes that Policeman is totally out of order...he should be done for reckless behaviour. But why can no one see that these fans are out of order too. Myself or none of my friends would get into this situation. We would see it before it kicked off. We would avoid it. If I see a line of Police...I take heed, sum up the situation and move away. Football fans are always bleating about there lot...just bloody behave, take responsibility for your own actions, and nothing untoward will happen. If you were walking in town, and not at the football, would you walk up to a Police cordon and try and barge your way through, start arguing and gesticulating? Most civil people would see reason, avoid the situation and however annoying, go another way. Just because it's at football, some people seem to think they can behave differently to any other day of the week. Group bloody mentality. Yes...the Copper is totally out of order, he should be pulled over the coals for his actions. But don't think any of these fans are 'innocent' in their behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View from the Dolman Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, spudski said: Yes that Policeman is totally out of order...he should be done for reckless behaviour. ... Yes...the Copper is totally out of order, he should be pulled over the coals for his actions. How do you propose this comes about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaspberryRed Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 19 minutes ago, spudski said: That's not true at all mate. He's one of the first to turn up, and is clearly being asked by the Policewoman to go another way...she points to his left, away from the park. To go up the road. He stands and starts arguing. That's when more people join him and they all start pushing and shoving and giving verbals. Why can no one see that these fans have created a situation? They've been asked to go another way, yet still continue to argue, get hostile and abusive and start to jostle. Why can't they be accountable for their own actions? Why do the Police get the blame for this? Yes that Policeman is totally out of order...he should be done for reckless behaviour. But why can no one see that these fans are out of order too. Myself or none of my friends would get into this situation. We would see it before it kicked off. We would avoid it. If I see a line of Police...I take heed, sum up the situation and move away. Football fans are always bleating about there lot...just bloody behave, take responsibility for your own actions, and nothing untoward will happen. If you were walking in town, and not at the football, would you walk up to a Police cordon and try and barge your way through, start arguing and gesticulating? Most civil people would see reason, avoid the situation and however annoying, go another way. Just because it's at football, some people seem to think they can behave differently to any other day of the week. Group bloody mentality. Yes...the Copper is totally out of order, he should be pulled over the coals for his actions. But don't think any of these fans are 'innocent' in their behaviour. For arguments sake let's say they are bang out of order. Which one of them struck a copper, (wearing helmets) around the head with a potentially life changing blow from a large blunt instrument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, RaspberryRed said: Let's just for arguments sake let's say they are bang out of order. Which one of them struck a copper (wearing helmets) around the head with a potentially life changing blow from a large blunt instrument? Read what I said mate...The Copper is totally out of order. Totally over reacted. You are just looking at the Copper being in the wrong however. One copper and a bunch of fans trying to push themselves through a Police line. It's a Police line...it's there for a reason, whether we agree with it or not. If told to go another way, why stand there an argue. Just move on...it's very simple. The Copper should be hung out to dry. But my point is...there would have been no problems if the fans had just done as they were instructed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 6, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 19 minutes ago, spudski said: That's not true at all mate. He's one of the first to turn up, and is clearly being asked by the Policewoman to go another way...she points to his left, away from the park. To go up the road. He stands and starts arguing. That's when more people join him and they all start pushing and shoving and giving verbals. Will agree to disagree, because the original Millwall escort was going to go through the park, they then turned them (in the direction of the car filming) then eventually walking them down the main road Can't see how what you have written above warrants the "Technical Advisor" being the ONLY police officer to draw a baton in this instance and swing it around at any consequence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, phantom said: Will agree to disagree, because the original Millwall escort was going to go through the park, they then turned them (in the direction of the car filming) then eventually walking them down the main road Can't see how what you have written above warrants the "Technical Advisor" being the ONLY police officer to draw a baton in this instance and swing it around at any consequence He's an idiot mate...as I've said numerous times. None of my observations have pointed towards what he did as 'warranted'. However...as a fan, don't barge into a Police line giving it the big I am. And stand there arguing. It's all about taking responsibility for your own actions and avoiding situations. Avoid the situations and you lessen the risk of anything untoward happening. It's very simple, and something we as public citizens seem to do less and less these days. We put ourselves in situations, then blame others for our own stupidity. It's like walking towards a signed minefield, because you want to go that way, and find it all rather annoying because it's putting you out of your way and you don't agree with it....so you carry on regardless because you're stupid, and then wonder why your legs have been blown off....and then start blaming the people who planted them there. It really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Colby-Tit Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, spudski said: He's an idiot mate...as I've said numerous times. None of my observations have pointed towards what he did as 'warranted'. However...as a fan, don't barge into a Police line giving it the big I am. And stand there arguing. It's all about taking responsibility for your own actions and avoiding situations. Avoid the situations and you lessen the risk of anything untoward happening. It's very simple, and something we as public citizens seem to do less and less these days. We put ourselves in situations, then blame others for our own stupidity. It's like walking towards a signed minefield, because you want to go that way, and find it all rather annoying because it's putting you out of your way and you don't agree with it....so you carry on regardless because you're stupid, and then wonder why your legs have been blown off....and then start blaming the people who planted them there. It really is that simple. I sort of agree with the sentiment, but in this case you have to ask if the coppers action was proportionate. IMO it was way over the top. Hitting someone on the noggin with a baton with that force could result in death or permanent brain injury. He needs to be held to account for his actions IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 2 hours ago, spudski said: Read what I said mate...The Copper is totally out of order. Totally over reacted. You are just looking at the Copper being in the wrong however. One copper and a bunch of fans trying to push themselves through a Police line. It's a Police line...it's there for a reason, whether we agree with it or not. If told to go another way, why stand there an argue. Just move on...it's very simple. The Copper should be hung out to dry. But my point is...there would have been no problems if the fans had just done as they were instructed to do. I think we all agree that there is no need for grown men to be standing face to face with a line of police and yes the sensible thing to do was walk away and yes the individual in question clearly must accept a portion of blame for what happened, but I find the whole idea that a policeman can thump someone and for there to be no checks in place extremely concerning. It's fortune he didn't inflict more serious damage, fortune may not be on his side next time. He must be scrutinised for his actions, irrespective whether it's reported as a complaint, as a crime or dealt with via internal disciplinary procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Or, to break it all down to its most simplistic form. The Millwall fans wanted to go one way and, rightly or wrongly, the Police diverted them and this caused a bottleneck. The Police said stay where you are, but the Millwall fans weren't happy and wanted to carry on walking. There then resulted a bit of bilateral pushing and shoving and, of course, had the Millwall fans not continued pushing there most likely would have been no problem, so it might be argued they were not totally blameless. BUT! Regardless of who was to blame for the initial 'confrontation', how does any of this excuse the fact that, apparently in no immediate danger either to himself or to his colleagues, a Police Officer draws and uses his truncheon in what seems, based on the video evidence, an extremely violent manner? Does this single act alone not warrant at least an investigation, rather than simply 'sweeping it under the carpet'? Regardless of who was/is right or wrong, I don't think the Police are doing themselves any favours if they fail to investigate this further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevP Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Bristol Post have come back to me on this. Info being compiled. Will update when I have more detail. Am liaising with the supporter who put forward the complaint too. They want info from him on why the Police rejected the complaint within 2 hours. Watch this space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 On 10/6/2017 at 15:21, spudski said: He's an idiot mate...as I've said numerous times. None of my observations have pointed towards what he did as 'warranted'. However...as a fan, don't barge into a Police line giving it the big I am. And stand there arguing. It's all about taking responsibility for your own actions and avoiding situations. Avoid the situations and you lessen the risk of anything untoward happening. It's very simple, and something we as public citizens seem to do less and less these days. We put ourselves in situations, then blame others for our own stupidity. It's like walking towards a signed minefield, because you want to go that way, and find it all rather annoying because it's putting you out of your way and you don't agree with it....so you carry on regardless because you're stupid, and then wonder why your legs have been blown off....and then start blaming the people who planted them there. It really is that simple. I agree with the sentiment but the highlighted portion count's for everybody involved including the police officer, who has and was IMHO acting in a very intimidating and aggressive manner throughout the clip and also IMHO was almost certainly in breach of his training for such circumstances, if anybody is need of a pre emptive strike to the upper body with a baton from a police officer then once more IMHO that person must have committed an arrestable offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie andrews Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 hours ago, KevP said: Bristol Post have come back to me on this. Info being compiled. Will update when I have more detail. Am liaising with the supporter who put forward the complaint too. They want info from him on why the Police rejected the complaint within 2 hours. Watch this space. whats gonna happen if the millwall geezer aint interested? which I think gonna be the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevP Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 If you've kept up to speed with the thread you will see the whole point is that shouldn't matter. And in fact it doesn't, we just have to get the Police to admit to that and do what they should do in terms of a proper investigation against an Officer using excessive force. Watch this space. It will get sorted. One way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie andrews Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 19 minutes ago, KevP said: If you've kept up to speed with the thread you will see the whole point is that shouldn't matter. And in fact it doesn't, we just have to get the Police to admit to that and do what they should do in terms of a proper investigation against an Officer using excessive force. Watch this space. It will get sorted. One way or another. I have been "up to speed" as you put it kev..........it takes two to tango though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevP Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, archie andrews said: I have been "up to speed" as you put it kev..........it takes two to tango though Well done Archie . In which case you will see that I am by no means alone in my belief that the Millwall fans' lack of input should not stop the Police at least investigating their Officers' clear over the top reaction. So regards 2 to tango......disagree on this occasion. After 7 pages of this thread I can't make that any clearer TBH ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie andrews Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, KevP said: Well done Archie . In which case you will see that I am by no means alone in my belief that the Millwall fans' lack of input should not stop the Police at least investigating their Officers' clear over the top reaction. So regards 2 to tango......disagree on this occasion. After 7 pages of this thread I can't make that any clearer TBH ! right you are then kev best of luck.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevP Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, archie andrews said: right you are then kev best of luck.... All in hand Archie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Constant Rabbit Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 I got a message from A+S Police "I just wanted to update you regarding the investigation into the footage of the incident involving an Officer striking a football fan on the 19/08/17. I have carried out extensive enquiries and looked at various footage of the incident (before/after and during the football match). I submitted a report to my Inspector (Gary STEPHENS 2113) who has agreed that No Further Action will be taken in relation to this matter. In line with policy and legislation, the Officer in question used reasonable force given the circumstances of the situation - to control a hostile crowd in order to prevent further disorder. There is no public complaint and no misconduct identified." There you go, nothing to see, move on folks. I had a general respect for the Police (the odd individual aside) as a service. That has now eroded after this, as the only term that can be used is "cover-up" I hope the Newspapers run with this. Thatchers Britain is alive and well again it would seem.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireSection Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 42 minutes ago, SX227 said: I got a message from A+S Police "I just wanted to update you regarding the investigation into the footage of the incident involving an Officer striking a football fan on the 19/08/17. I have carried out extensive enquiries and looked at various footage of the incident (before/after and during the football match). I submitted a report to my Inspector (Gary STEPHENS 2113) who has agreed that No Further Action will be taken in relation to this matter. In line with policy and legislation, the Officer in question used reasonable force given the circumstances of the situation - to control a hostile crowd in order to prevent further disorder. There is no public complaint and no misconduct identified." There you go, nothing to see, move on folks. I had a general respect for the Police (the odd individual aside) as a service. That has now eroded after this, as the only term that can be used is "cover-up" I hope the Newspapers run with this. Thatchers Britain is alive and well again it would seem.................. The action of this PIG and the cover up surrounding this incident is disgusting, it simply has to be taken further. I don't want pricks like him anywhere near Ashton Gate, I cant believe that in 2017, in a democratic western country that with such evidence this fails to constitute even an enquiry. if the foot is on the other foot the bloke gets a custodial sentence, no question. This is what MP's are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Rich Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 Contact details for local MP: Karin Smyth Parliamentary House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA Email: karin.smyth.mp@parliament.uk Constituency Constituency office Tel: 0117 953 3575 Web & Social media Twitter:@karinsmyth Website:karinsmyth.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevP Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 There you go folks. If you've ever wondered what "reasonable force" is, you now know. Get out today and buy yourselves a baton.... OK, on a more serious note, update for you all. The Press now have view of the official replies to SX227 ( which are laughable IMO ). Ive copied the main bits below, have taken out the Officer names in case anyone on here gets twitchy.; "Essentially as you have not witnessed the incident first hand and only via the DashCam footage, you are unable to pursue a complaint. This falls in line under the IPCC Statutory Guidance to the Police Service on the Handling of Complaints. However, let me assure you that our Department are reviewing this incident and taking the necessary action. Thank you liaising with Officer ###### regarding this matter, should you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact me. Many thanks again. " ############# Professional Standards Department "I just wanted to update you regarding the investigation into the footage of the incident involving an Officer striking a football fan on the 19/08/17. I have carried out extensive enquiries and looked at various footage of the incident (before/after and during the football match). I submitted a report to my Inspector (########) who has agreed that No Further Action will be taken in relation to this matter. In line with policy and legislation, the Officer in question used reasonable force given the circumstances of the situation - to control a hostile crowd in order to prevent further disorder. There is no public complaint and no misconduct identified. Many thanks" ############## Professional Standards Department. The Post will be putting an article forward in the next day or so, I've told them all I can, but the bottom line is, despite my efforts and those of SX227, and a couple of others on here, it's not going any further. Feel free if you want to contact any of the avenues suggested previously, but that's it from me now. Until next time. I tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bristolcity Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/11/2017 at 00:36, YorkshireSection said: The action of this PIG and the cover up surrounding this incident is disgusting, it simply has to be taken further. I don't want pricks like him anywhere near Ashton Gate, I cant believe that in 2017, in a democratic western country that with such evidence this fails to constitute even an enquiry. if the foot is on the other foot the bloke gets a custodial sentence, no question. This is what MP's are for. You calling a police officer a pig is bang out of order. Yes we live in a democracy, and certainly we can't allow the rule of the mob, so take your foul comments with you why don't you and go to a country that would be better suited to your self, that would tolerate you and others on here, wherever that might be. Perhaps we might start a list of countries , I will let you go first. 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1bristolcity Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/6/2017 at 11:22, 29AR said: The officer is a servant of the public and should answer to the public for such actions. I am all for not getting offended on someone else's behalf, but when an Officer of the law strikes a member of the public those actions should always be scrutinised - sometimes the actions justified, othertimes not. A man in that role with a temper is very volatile, that's why he should be questioned over his actions to see if this officer has a temper. Of course he might have a temper, what a pathetic comment, the officer might have a shorter fuse than others, so what? It 's the sum of the whole that matters, that Police Cordon was well managed, if we are to be nit picking hand wringing liberals about this I really fear for our safety, too much 'frightened to police' as it is, of course the alternative rather than a baton might be a bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie andrews Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said: You calling a police officer a pig is bang out of order. Yes we live in a democracy, and certainly we can't allow the rule of the mob, so take your foul comments with you why don't you and go to a country that would be better suited to your self, that would tolerate you and others on here, wherever that might be. Perhaps we might start a list of countries , I will let you go first. 1. calm down officer......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 44 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said: You calling a police officer a pig is bang out of order. Yes we live in a democracy, and certainly we can't allow the rule of the mob, so take your foul comments with you why don't you and go to a country that would be better suited to your self, that would tolerate you and others on here, wherever that might be. Perhaps we might start a list of countries , I will let you go first. 1. The bloke who smacked the Millwall fan is a pig whether hes wearing a uniform or not . What a silly post by the way - you say we live in a democracy then suggest Yorkshire Section emigrates because he considers the action of the coward unacceptable, and the cover up even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 21 minutes ago, Loon plage said: The bloke who smacked the Millwall fan is a pig whether hes wearing a uniform or not . What a silly post by the way - you say we live in a democracy then suggest Yorkshire Section emigrates because he considers the action of the coward unacceptable, and the cover up even worse. I have been involved in this thread right from page 1, responded to all of the enquiries and requests and have been open about what I was informed everyone had to do with regards to this incident. at no point have I felt the need to use personal insults or vile comments such as .this we live in a democracy where everyone has a right to enquire as why things have happened which I have facilitated. Neither i or the pc in the videos are pigs. Pigs are farm animals with 4 legs and a curly tail and taste nice in a roll. We are human beings who live , breathe, have families just like you do. There was no need for that insult within the context of this thread thankfully the majority of Bristol City fans on this forum have not shown the same attitude to police in this incident as you have i have always been open , the reason I am here answering questions is at the request of the fans , if that is no longer the case then i can easily leave the forum and just continue to attend monthly fans meeting in the supporters bar on the first weds of each month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevP Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 27 minutes ago, JulieH said: I have been involved in this thread right from page 1, responded to all of the enquiries and requests and have been open about what I was informed everyone had to do with regards to this incident. at no point have I felt the need to use personal insults or vile comments such as .this we live in a democracy where everyone has a right to enquire as why things have happened which I have facilitated. Neither i or the pc in the videos are pigs. Pigs are farm animals with 4 legs and a curly tail and taste nice in a roll. We are human beings who live , breathe, have families just like you do. There was no need for that insult within the context of this thread thankfully the majority of Bristol City fans on this forum have not shown the same attitude to police in this incident as you have i have always been open , the reason I am here answering questions is at the request of the fans , if that is no longer the case then i can easily leave the forum and just continue to attend monthly fans meeting in the supporters bar on the first weds of each month. It was just a shame we had to chase for an update after 5 weeks to then be told a complaint was needed.....then we found a complainant to have the whole thing rejected in 2 hours. It seems responses can be quicker if the blue touch paper gets lit....... BTW I like bacon rolls...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 45 minutes ago, JulieH said: I have been involved in this thread right from page 1, responded to all of the enquiries and requests and have been open about what I was informed everyone had to do with regards to this incident. at no point have I felt the need to use personal insults or vile comments such as .this we live in a democracy where everyone has a right to enquire as why things have happened which I have facilitated. Neither i or the pc in the videos are pigs. Pigs are farm animals with 4 legs and a curly tail and taste nice in a roll. We are human beings who live , breathe, have families just like you do. There was no need for that insult within the context of this thread thankfully the majority of Bristol City fans on this forum have not shown the same attitude to police in this incident as you have i have always been open , the reason I am here answering questions is at the request of the fans , if that is no longer the case then i can easily leave the forum and just continue to attend monthly fans meeting in the supporters bar on the first weds of each month. Suggest you re read my post. I said the brave man clumping the Millwall fan was a pig whether he was in uniform or not. My "attitude" comes from what is now crystal clear. So far as the treatment of football fans are concerned the police is a corrupt organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieH Posted October 12, 2017 Report Share Posted October 12, 2017 Your definition of crystal clear corruption and mine are clearly at odds with each other. i am happy to invite you to ride along with the football officers from Bristol on a game to be arranged so that you can see policing of football for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.