Eni Aluko / Mark Sampson (Merged)

[Stortz]

I wonder how many of the people in this thread who were so quick to condemn Aluko and accuse her of 'playing the race card' with no proof whatsoever will be as keen on admitting that they were wrong now the actual evidence is before us?

A very pertinent article here;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/19/fa-non-racists-england-manager-mark-sampson-eni-aluko

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

8 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

What I said 22 months ago.... some / most on here thought she was 'playing the race card' to put it mildly, looks like some of the same are  now condemning the F.A. 

Confusing...

I hope those people who use the inherently racist expression 'playing the race card' will think twice in future.  I wonder if someone with limited mobility who uses a wheelchair would be accused of 'playing the disability card' if they demanded decent access to public buildings?

[nebristolred]

On 26/09/2017 at 14:55, phantom said:

Her age?

 

On 26/09/2017 at 14:56, RaspberryRed said:

Correct

And the number of partners from what I've been told.

[chipdawg]

1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I suppose it depends what he was fired for…it was an alleged transgression in a previous job, as far as I know…

There is probably more to be revealed, only then can we make a decent/fair judgement.

I certainly think that the FA botched his removal. They botched this whole sorry affair in fact.

But if even a couple of the rumours and (now seemingly confirmed) allegations about Sampson are correct, the teeny bit of sympathy I had for him previously is long gone

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 hours ago, chipdawg said:

As the only person who's been fired thus far is Sampson, do you think he should have kept his job?

Yes until the point as a proper process had been followed, it seems that he is very likely to go for unfair dismissal.  What you have to remember is all the things that have been said about the guy post his sacking the FA apologising post his dismissal, the select committee hearing, all besmirch the guys name (He did have two internal inquiries that found nothing malicious).  Whether he did say something out of line or not is neither here nor there, he's not had a fair hearing its all trial by media.   The notion that he had a relationship with one the players at Bristol Academy before his appointment as England manager was grounds for dismissal after the fact is just cobblers.

I loathe trial by media, he wont be earning great amounts of money and his 9 months severance wont go very far, though the story he will inevitable sell at some point will cover him for a little longer, but he will be a pariah from now on, he's been truly shat on.  And I also hate the fact the media seem to like throwing Bristol City's name into the equation from time to time like were some kind of cauldron for racist coaches. 

[chipdawg]

1 hour ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Yes until the point as a proper process had been followed, it seems that he is very likely to go for unfair dismissal.  What you have to remember is all the things that have been said about the guy post his sacking the FA apologising post his dismissal, the select committee hearing, all besmirch the guys name (He did have two internal inquiries that found nothing malicious).  Whether he did say something out of line or not is neither here nor there, he's not had a fair hearing its all trial by media.   The notion that he had a relationship with one the players at Bristol Academy before his appointment as England manager was grounds for dismissal after the fact is just cobblers.

I loathe trial by media, he wont be earning great amounts of money and his 9 months severance wont go very far, though the story he will inevitable sell at some point will cover him for a little longer, but he will be a pariah from now on, he's been truly shat on.  And I also hate the fact the media seem to like throwing Bristol City's name into the equation from time to time like were some kind of cauldron for racist coaches. 

But the FA's incompetence is not a reason for him to keep his job. I completely agree that the FA completely and utterly botched the whole process, but knowing what we now know (or at least knowing that several independent groups of people have now accepted Sampsons guilt on various issues, to varying degrees), do you think he should be in a job? I completely agree that the process by which he was dismissed was a farce

[Robbored]

From an outsiders view it certainly does look as if the FA didn't have any proper protocols for managing potentially tricky situations like the recent revelations/accusations  in the women's game. 

The investigations have revealed just how inept the senior figures in the FA are, Martin Glen in particular.

The sacking of Allardyce, the appointment of a "safe pair of hands" of Mr Uninspiring,  Gareth Southgate who has no managerial record to speak of just smacks of the FA being too obsessed by their own public image. 

The FA have come out of this with their reputation ( such as it was) in tatters and I for one am quietly delighted with that.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

41 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

But the FA's incompetence is not a reason for him to keep his job. I completely agree that the FA completely and utterly botched the whole process, but knowing what we now know (or at least knowing that several independent groups of people have now accepted Sampsons guilt on various issues, to varying degrees), do you think he should be in a job? I completely agree that the process by which he was dismissed was a farce

Lets assume what he said was true, in my job those comments would have got you close to fired, i.e. some sort of formal warning and education program.  For a public figure we know its normally always terminal.  However the FA systematically failed to follow either of those two processes, they had two reviews that cleared him of any wrong doing.  And it does not have to be an independent solicitor, it just has to be competent and with a satisfactory outcome for all parties, in the absence of anything like that he should still have his job.

[LondonBristolian]

13 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Lets assume what he said was true, in my job those comments would have got you close to fired, i.e. some sort of formal warning and education program.  For a public figure we know its normally always terminal.  However the FA systematically failed to follow either of those two processes, they had two reviews that cleared him of any wrong doing.  And it does not have to be an independent solicitor, it just has to be competent and with a satisfactory outcome for all parties, in the absence of anything like that he should still have his job.

The FA have now accepted the two reviews were inadequate and failed to speak to witnesses involved. They have now completed a third review which found that he DID make the comments. Admittedly the recommendations would have been mandatory diversity training rather than dismissal but the two reviews you speak of are now null and void as they are superseded by the most recent one. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

The FA have now accepted the two reviews were inadequate and failed to speak to witnesses involved. They have now completed a third review which found that he DID make the comments. Admittedly the recommendations would have been mandatory diversity training rather than dismissal but the two reviews you speak of are now null and void as they are superseded by the most recent one. 

That's OK then three reviews they have gotten to the bottom of it.  Point is the people who should be sacked, fired, fined etc will still be running a shambolic organisation.

[RedM]

7 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

That's OK then three reviews they have gotten to the bottom of it.  Point is the people who should be sacked, fired, fined etc will still be running a shambolic organisation.

I agree. But in their minds they are safe, have a nice cushy number sat at the top of the steaming pile. Who do they answer to? 

[spudski]

This whole episode is just the tip of the iceberg to how society has become.

From what I understand he was relieved of his managers post, because of indiscretions at a former club.

As for the 'Racist' remarks, he's been found guilty of being naïve, and not conforming to certain legislations/Acts, but it was concluded that he isn't racist...just Ill judged by his comments.

I see this nearly everyday in all walks of life...people saying what is now considered inappropriate, and someone either taking offence or taking it in light spirit as 'banter'.

I have a friend who when going into Turtle Bay for cocktails, puts on a Jamaican accent. They always laugh and go along with it, calling him a posh **** and putting on a posh English accent in return.

One day it's all gonna come crashing down on him, when someone takes proper offense. In fact, someone did....funnily it was Lewis Hamilton's brother, who thought he was being racist...then backed down when my posh **** friend, introduced him to his black Jamaican Girlfriend...go figure eh!!!

I fear we are soon going to be all walking on eggshells and not saying anything, in case of reprisals.

Hate racism, it shouldn't be tolerated...I'd rather laugh at ourselves and our differences though, and judge for myself whether someone is being jovial or has a racist heart.

[Northern Red]

12 hours ago, Stortz said:

I wonder how many of the people in this thread who were so quick to condemn Aluko and accuse her of 'playing the race card' with no proof whatsoever will be as keen on admitting that they were wrong now the actual evidence is before us?

A very pertinent article here;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/19/fa-non-racists-england-manager-mark-sampson-eni-aluko

The silence is deafening... 

[spudski]

Interesting that article says that it wasn't a Racist remark...but a discriminatory comment based of racism. When a person is treated less favourably because of where they come from.

Noting that Sampson was note racist...just discriminatory towards her.

What I find strange about the Act quoted is this section...

Quote...

When is offensive behaviour based on race not against the law?

One of the answers... 'making a fair comment, if the comment is an expression of a person’s genuine belief'

How does that work?

[Stortz]

.

[freezer]

22 minutes ago, Stortz said:

.

What he said.

[Gert Mare]

The FA dinosaurs are stifling the progression of the game in this country. They have cocked up this whole thing and then tried to cover their tracks by leaving Sampson as the Scapegoat, and they have got another "Yes man" in charge of England strangling the life out of the International game, which after the humiliation of the Icelandic defeat and the way we crashed out of the Euros is totally mind boggling. 

[054123]

Well said Stormzy.