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spudski

How is this 'Racism'? / Mark Sampson (Merged)

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No wrong doing proven, accusations there are and a headache for the FA. I think they had little choice however and no doubt he gets a pay off. 

And I really see no racism in that comment by Sampson to Aluko. How many times do any of us say something we think will be a lighthearted remark but it comes out slightly differently. Sampsons remark was barely in poor taste but it unearthed previous accusations. 

The problem with western society, in general, and particularly the English speaking one is that standards of education have fallen inexorably in the last 40 years. I have no doubt about that. It means a general dumbing down and the poster who said someone hides behind an accusation, of whatever kind, as a substitute for a reasoned discussion does tend to resonate and it actually polarises opinion as you see on this thread. The FA, Sampson and Aluko are all victims and hostages to that decline in standards.

Edited by havanatopia
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2 hours ago, havanatopia said:

No wrong doing proven, accusations there are and a headache for the FA. I think they had little choice however and no doubt he gets a pay off. 

And I really see no racism in that comment by Sampson to Aluko. How many times do any of us say something we think will be a lighthearted remark but it comes out slightly differently. Sampsons remark was barely in poor taste but it unearthed previous accusations. 

The problem with western society, in general, and particularly the English speaking one is that standards of education have fallen inexorably in the last 40 years. I have no doubt about that. It means a general dumbing down and the poster who said someone hides behind an accusation, of whatever kind, as a substitute for a reasoned discussion does tend to resonate and it actually polarises opinion as you see on this thread. The FA, Sampson and Aluko are all victims and hostages to that decline in standards.

Witch hunt

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Said 'Bristol Academy' on BBC breakfast. Remember it was called that before the word City replaced Academy and under both names it was under the control of Bristol Sport.

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Forgive me, I'm still not up to speed on this thing.

So MS made the ebola comment to Aluko - very ****ing weird and disgusting comment to make, but there's a debate about it actually being racist. And then seemingly more info has come out as to some inappropriate behaviour since, and he's now been sacked for that, but we don't know exactly what it is?

Is that correct?

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3 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Forgive me, I'm still not up to speed on this thing.

So MS made the ebola comment to Aluko - very ****ing weird and disgusting comment to make, but there's a debate about it actually being racist. And then seemingly more info has come out as to some inappropriate behaviour since, and he's now been sacked for that, but we don't know exactly what it is?

Is that correct?

No such comment was made according to an fa and independent equiry 

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6 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Monkeh.. Because they felt uncomfortable with a report they should have read 2 years ago and were looking for any excuse you mean?

Like with with fat Sam (who was also proved innocent)

This is about the FA trying to save face and the "gentlemans" club at the top of the game

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Noted and agreed ref the FA conduct. I have watched and listened to Sam A's sit down with that sting operation more than once. Each time I simply ask 'why?' .. He was just installed as England boss and agrees to meet these people .. Not his remit, nothing to do with his job. The guy is naive at best and any number of words can describe him at worst. He had to be sacked.

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The information released suggests that the FA clearly went digging for something, and eventually found something they could use to terminate his contract. 

Might be suggested that the FA bloke might be at fault for only just reading a report that was sent to him some years ago.  

Appropriate time for the use of the words Omni shambles, or Cluster£u(k

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Seems to me that when MS was appointed the FA "chose" to ignore, or not look too deeply into the report about MS's activities while at Bristol Academy.

It also seems to me that allegations of racism are a can of worms, with often a no win situation for any company or organisation. With 2 separate investigations into MS's conduct regarding Aluko, allied to the £80,000 pay out to Aluko, there was always a strong chance that the story would not go away and the FA would not want to   risk accusations of a cover up or "whitewash".

The original report about MS at Bristol Academy now appears to give the FA a get out of jail free card. If MS's activities at Bristol Academy are now deemed to make him unsuitable for the high standards the FA demands of it's employees, why were they not deemed to be so at the time of his appointment? 

As with "Big" Sam, surely the FA would carry out in depth and detailed due diligence of anyone being considered for such a high profile and potentially toxic appointment as manager of the national team. Given the added potential "problems" that could occur with a man managing a group of females, it would seem even more necessary that even the slightest suggestion of "improper conduct" with female players under his management in a previous role would ring every warning bell going?

Makes you think that the FA is still the old boys club that ensured that Brian Clough never became England manager and why the Premier League rang rings around them, and continues to do so to this day. 

P.S. Re the Aluko allegations I was once told it's not what you say , it's what other people hear what you say. What goes as banter in a male dressing room is almost certainly not going to go down the same with everyone in a female dressing room and especially when issues of race come in to play. Seems to me that MS was indiscreet with comments that I suspect he thought were humorous, but in today's climate and in such a high profile he should know better.

As for allegations regarding his time at Bristol Academy, I have no knowledge of the rumours that many others do seem to know about, but putting 2 and 2 together it seems he overstepped the mark interrelationships with players and this would have then be seen to have compromised his ability to manage the players impartially, whether or not he did.

 

Edited by downendcity
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Something came out of some incident(s)  whilst he was at Bristol, the testimony given by the black player was very compelling for me, and I said similar on here at the time. However despite this some on here merely put i down as a witch hunt What should the FA do, forget it ignore and be no better than the Russians?

 

Whatever happened here must have been pretty serious, let's see if he contests the sacking shall we?

Edited by 1bristolcity

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He was doing well at Bristol from what I remember, so did the FA offer him the England job without checking out his references as such? Or were they aware and employed him anyway hoping they could bury 'bad news' as they got a successful manager? As I said before it was only by chance the Aluko thing was discovered. 

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1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Like with with fat Sam (who was also proved innocent)

This is about the FA trying to save face and the "gentlemans" club at the top of the game

No smoke without fire in both cases, would you rather we have a cover up? 

Not sure what you are alluding to with your comments. The way I see it he was sacked  because of his previous actions, which cast doubt on his innocence, but supported the complainents' side of the story.

The silence from him his is deafening. 

Edited by 1bristolcity

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18 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

Something came out of some incident(s)  whilst he was at Bristol, the testimony given by the black player was very compelling for me, and I said similar on here at the time. However despite this some on here merely put i down as a witch hunt What should the FA do, forget it ignore and be no better than the Russians?

 

Whatever happened here must have been pretty serious, let's see if he contests the sacking shall we?

so serious in fact that two investigations found nothing (one independent ) and they have gone back to something from 2014 and stating the fact no law has been broken and that he can still work in the game,

 

yea sounds really serious and not a witch hunt at all,

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5 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

so serious in fact that two investigations found nothing (one independent ) and they have gone back to something from 2014 and stating the fact no law has been broken and that he can still work in the game,

 

yea sounds really serious and not a witch hunt at all,

By a witch hunt you are saying that he is innocent, the girl a liar and Fat Sam should be the England Manager...leave the keyboard alone, take a walk and clear your head.:yes:

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18 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

By a witch hunt you are saying that he is innocent, the girl a liar and Fat Sam should be the England Manager...leave the keyboard alone, take a walk and clear your head.:yes:

the player doesn't come across very well either. neither do a lot of people. if Mark Sampson was all its said some think he was. why was he employed by Bristol Academy? why did they give him a reference for the England job? Bristol Sport also made a statement yesterday which appeared to go against the FA.

Edited by Trueredsupporte

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17 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

By a witch hunt you are saying that he is innocent, the girl a liar and Fat Sam should be the England Manager...leave the keyboard alone, take a walk and clear your head.:yes:

So if he is not innocent, what is he actually guilty of?  And if he is guilty of a crime or a serious FA rule breach, why has he not been convicted or banned?

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19 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

By a witch hunt you are saying that he is innocent, the girl a liar and Fat Sam should be the England Manager...leave the keyboard alone, take a walk and clear your head.:yes:

whats he done wrong? 3 investigations one dating back to 2014 that the FA had before he was employed,

Where's his conviction? why isnt he in prison as its so serious?

I suggest you leave the keyboard alone,

Or produce the evidence to prove he is in the wrong because that doesn't seem to be forth coming at the moment,

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14 hours ago, RaspberryRed said:

Believe me the FA knew about this waaay way before then. His inappropriate behaviour was common knowledge in and around Bristol Ladies/Girls team.

Total abuse of power

This slimey little**** has had this coming for some time 

What does that say about Bristol Academy, Bristol City Women, Bristol Sport and BCFC?

The four are linked to individuals who were present when Mark Sampson was employed by Bristol Academy.

 

Edited by Cowshed

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Maybe being a bit thick here, but a statement was released by Bristol Academy womens team last night - does that actually still exist?

I thought they evolved into Bristol City ladies team?

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5 minutes ago, phantom said:

Maybe being a bit thick here, but a statement was released by Bristol Academy womens team last night - does that actually still exist?

I thought they evolved into Bristol City ladies team?

Bristol Academy of Sport still exists - maybe it's their statement as it relates to the time when they were running the team?

Bristol Sport appears to have got involved in 2014, after Sampson left although the Community Trust was a shirt sponsor in 2013.

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7 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

DBS checks are done every 3 years, (used to be a CRB check) I wonder if his had expired and when it was renewed, this "new info" came out. As in someone could have come forwards since his last one was done, with info from before 2014, so it's now showing up. Just an idea. 

I think you're barking up the wrong tree, Dolls,  as the FA have said it isn't an issue related to safeguarding. 

It's also not a new allegation, as it was made and investigated (by the FA) in 2014.

They appear to have developed collective amnesia however and it is convenient for them now to resurrect this issue to get rid of someone who is at the centre of a controversy. 

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

What does that say about Bristol Academy, Bristol City Women, Bristol Sport and BCFC?

The four are linked to individuals who were present when Mark Sampson was employed by Bristol Academy.

 

nothing to do with city or Bristol Sport,

Bristol Sport didn't take over the womens team until 2015 after Sampson had already left his post and two years after the allegation according to a statement 

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18 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think you're barking up the wrong tree, Dolls,  as the FA have said it isn't an issue related to safeguarding

It's also not a new allegation, as it was made and investigated (by the FA) in 2014.

They appear to have developed collective amnesia however and it is convenient for them now to resurrect this issue to get rid of someone who is at the centre of a controversy. 

It's the same concerns RR that Safeguarding examined and came to the conclusion there wasn't a safeguarding issue

The FA have just decided to make their own judgement on those concerns , now , some years later

 

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2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

It's the same concerns RR that Safeguarding examined and came to the conclusion there wasn't a safeguarding issue

The FA have just decided to make their own judgement on those concerns , now , some years later

 

Exactly Bob. Not a safeguarding issue as it doesn't involve an under 18 or an abuse of a power situation. Sleezy perhaps, but not criminal. 

The FA however have already made a judgement in 2014. They are now saying that the people running the organisation now weren't aware of this allegation so they have looked afresh at it and decided that while it raises no safeguarding issue it amounts to conduct below the standard expected of its employees.

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3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

nothing to do with city or Bristol Sport,

Bristol Sport didn't take over the womens team until 2015 after Sampson had already left his post and two years after the allegation according to a statement 

And people who were there are time are now part of?

If as the poster implies Mr Sampsons alleged behaviour was common knowledge why was it tolerated

There are a myriad of connections between Bristol Academy, Bristol City women and Bristol Sport and Bristol City FC.  

Coaches above work in various roles, in the community and at junior clubs.

I have a personal interest in this as a Bristol City women's coach is a friend and coached my son in another role. He is a credit to he coaching profession. I simply do not believe that people as admirable and responsible as he is would tolerate inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour at a organisation they coach at.

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2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

And people who were there are time are now part of?

If as the poster implies Mr Sampsons alleged behaviour was common knowledge why was it tolerated

There are a myriad of connections between Bristol Academy, Bristol City women and Bristol Sport and Bristol City FC.  

Coaches above work in various roles, in the community and at junior clubs.

I have a personal interest in this as a Bristol City women's coach is a friend and coached my son in another role. He is a credit to he coaching profession. I simply do not believe that people as admirable and responsible as he is would tolerate inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour at a organisation they coach at.

It's the FA trying to save face and throw everyone under the bus and try and resit the reform the government wants

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4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Exactly Bob. Not a safeguarding issue as it doesn't involve an under 18 or an abuse of a power situation. Sleezy perhaps, but not criminal. 

The FA however have already made a judgement in 2014. They are now saying that the people running the organisation now weren't aware of this allegation so they have looked afresh at it and decided that while it raises no safeguarding issue it amounts to conduct below the standard expected of its employees.

Agree - but the FA were in possession of all the facts but now claiming they didn't read them fully / properly

The whole thing stinks from top to bottom and it sounds like a few should be going

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3 hours ago, Monkeh said:

so serious in fact that two investigations found nothing (one independent ) and they have gone back to something from 2014 and stating the fact no law has been broken and that he can still work in the game,

 

yea sounds really serious and not a witch hunt at all,

Can you not think of anything that a male manager could do whilst in charge of female players that would not be a crime but would be completely inappropriate? It doesn't have to be anything to do with the Aluko allegations.

Everything is wild speculation obviously until anything actually comes to light, but by constantly defending the man and making claims like it's a witch hunt you're running the risk of seeming very silly when the true extent of the situation is revealed.

Why not wait and see.

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3 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

Can you not think of anything that a male manager could do whilst in charge of female players that would not be a crime but would be completely inappropriate? It doesn't have to be anything to do with the Aluko allegations.

Everything is wild speculation obviously until anything actually comes to light, but by constantly defending the man and making claims like it's a witch hunt you're running the risk of seeming very silly when the true extent of the situation is revealed.

Why not wait and see.

thats why i said witch hunt, people have thrown him under the bus with out any evidence, the only facts out there is that he's been investigated twice for Aluko, found innocent both time, and something happened in 2014, again found innocent

He's a scapegoat to cover up massive failings at the FA, something that keeps happening,  

Until the FA is reformed from top to bottom, these things will keep happening,

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17 hours ago, RaspberryRed said:

Believe me the FA knew about this waaay way before then. His inappropriate behaviour was common knowledge in and around Bristol Ladies/Girls team.

Total abuse of power

This slimey little**** has had this coming for some time 

 

44 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

It's the FA trying to save face and throw everyone under the bus and try and resit the reform the government wants

The above post is the one I replied to. If Mr Sampson's inappropriate behaviour was common knowledge it is inextricably linked to Bristol Sport etc. Is the poster implying that his behaviour was tolerated by the coaches, the organisation and structure it became part of ... Covered up even!  

Part of that structure is BCFC. Part of that structure will be known to people on this forum. The coaches (several) I know who work for various aspects of BCFC - Bristol City women - The Community Trust are marvellous people.

I hope the top post is a total fabrication.  

Edited by Cowshed

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3 hours ago, Monkeh said:

whats he done wrong? 3 investigations one dating back to 2014 that the FA had before he was employed,

Where's his conviction? why isnt he in prison as its so serious?

I suggest you leave the keyboard alone,

Or produce the evidence to prove he is in the wrong because that doesn't seem to be forth coming at the moment,

It was not a criminal offence, but fell short of what was to be expected, seems like he might have had a warning, and then this...two strikes and your out?

 

Hope that helps your understanding a bit.

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3 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

So if he is not innocent, what is he actually guilty of?  And if he is guilty of a crime or a serious FA rule breach, why has he not been convicted or banned?

Read the reply I made to Monk...

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17 hours ago, RaspberryRed said:

Believe me the FA knew about this waaay way before then. His inappropriate behaviour was common knowledge in and around Bristol Ladies/Girls team.

Total abuse of power

This slimey little**** has had this coming for some time 

Thanks for adding a bit of reason, I just really had a gut instinct about the bloke, that's all, seems like there is actually no smoke without fire. It would seem Bristol did the right and proper thing in exposing him, too much cover up in football, which has been highlighted just recently with coaches preying on young boys.... 

 

So before some condemn the FA for all this stop and think some.

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7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

 

The above post is the one I replied to. If Mr Sampson's inappropriate behaviour was common knowledge it is inextricably linked to Bristol Sport etc. Is the poster implying that his behaviour was tolerated by the coaches, the organisation and structure it was part of ... Covered up even!  

Part of that structure is BCFC. Part of that structure will be known to people on this forum. The coaches (several) I know who work for various aspects of BCFC - Bristol City women - The Community Trust are marvellous people.

I hope the top post is a total fabrication.  

Bristol Sport and indeed Bristol City FC didn't take over running or have anything to do with the womens Team untill 2015 2 years after he left his post at Bristol Academy so why would BCFC know? or even need to know?,

From Wiki

The first women's team to represent Bristol City were not actually part of the football club, but were actually an independent team, Bristol United, with no affiliation to Bristol City. In 1990 they were invited to represent City by wearing red kits and using the club's name. Four years later, City began work developing their own women's football section when fathers Roger Bowyer and Andy Baylis, began entering girls' teams in local 6-a-side leagues. From these beginnings a senior women's team grew, and worked their way up the leagues. They won the South-West Combination in the 2001–02 season, winning promotion to the FA Women's Premier League Southern Division.[1]

It took them just two seasons in the Southern Division to win promotion to the FA Women's Premier League National Division, finishing the 2003–04 season with a record of 18 wins, three draws and three defeats to top the Southern table.[2] Promotion meant they would now play in the top flight of English women's football, where they would join local rivals Bristol Rovers in the National Division.

City found life at the top of the women's game difficult, and their stay in the National Division lasted for just a single season. They ended the 2004–05 campaign with just 9 points and were relegated straight back down to the Southern Division.[3] Two years later, in May 2007, Bristol City announced that they would no longer fund a women's team. The club moved to Bath and became part of the TeamBath group of sports teams.[4]

The name Bristol City returned to women's football in 2016, however. In a strange twist City took over, and renamed, FA WSL side Bristol Academy. Although they had been renamed in the mean time, Academy were the same team that had been City's fierce rivals of the late 90s and early 2000s: Bristol Rovers.[5] It was announced in November 2015 that Academy would become Bristol City W.F.C..[6]

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11 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

It was not a criminal offence, but fell short of what was to be expected, seems like he might have had a warning, and then this...two strikes and your out?

 

Hope that helps your understanding a bit.

So you have a warning in your previous job, and one in your current job, does that mean you should be sacked from your current job?

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8 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

DBS checks are done every 3 years, (used to be a CRB check) I wonder if his had expired and when it was renewed, this "new info" came out. As in someone could have come forwards since his last one was done, with info from before 2014, so it's now showing up. Just an idea. 

He had no criminal convictions so any checks on his self that was negative would be groundless. I would think that the weight of 'evidence' regarding his persona was too much to ignore. And of course in light of the new revelations about past abuse, the FA had to act.

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4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

So you have a warning in your previous job, and one in your current job, does that mean you should be sacked from your current job?

He was working under the FA in both roles.

So yes he should be sacked.

 

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2 minutes ago, 1bristolcity said:

He was working under the FA in both roles.

So yes he should be sacked.

 

no the FA didn't run Bristol Academy SGS did, so he came under their jurisdiction and was found at the time to have done nothing wrong, creepy slimy maybe but nothing wrong, If he was working for the FA at te time, they would of been paying him, much like any manager,

The FA can't decide tomorrow to sack Lee Johnson, they have no authority to do that, they can request it, they can't actually do it,

If the FA really had mis givings why emply him?, why did it take almost 5 years to come out (this happened in 2013) coincidentally the same time aluko starts kicking up a fuss about the TWO investigations 

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I am very disappointed that a successful manager has got the sack due to a personal row with a player.

It will now make it difficult for the next manager who comes in - will he pick Aluko?

 

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3 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

no the FA didn't run Bristol Academy SGS did, so he came under their jurisdiction and was found at the time to have done nothing wrong, creepy slimy maybe but nothing wrong, If he was working for the FA at te time, they would of been paying him, much like any manager,

The FA can't decide tomorrow to sack Lee Johnson, they have no authority to do that, they can request it, they can't actually do it,

If the FA really had mis givings why emply him?, why did it take almost 5 years to come out (this happened in 2013) coincidentally the same time aluko starts kicking up a fuss about the TWO investigations 

And the FA have known about this for 2 years why now?.

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2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And the FA have known about this for 2 years why now?.

much like the child abuse  another cover up perhaps to keep the old boys in place and the fat cats keep getting richer?,

Unlike the abuse however a few players have jumped to his defense, like Steph Houghton, 

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4 minutes ago, CHIPLEY RED said:

I am very disappointed that a successful manager has got the sack due to a personal row with a player.

It will now make it difficult for the next manager who comes in - will he pick Aluko?

 

And that throws up another problem, will players that she publicly criticised want to play with her again?.

I feel sorry for the squad they have started to achieve and compete at the highest level and now this.

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3 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Even if it predates Bristol Sport?

Yes. It was absorbed into Bristol Sport. People are colleagues of each other. People will often have multiple roles across different clubs, senior and junior ... Its a small world there.

The people I have met and know in that word don't tolerate power abusing shites ..

 

 

 

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So Sampson is cleared twice of racism, but the FA paid Aluko out anyway? Why?.....Hmmm better mention some new evidence that he come to light so Sampson can take the rap and the FA can scuttle away quietly. Corruption springs to mind.

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