Where are Johnson's critics? (Merged many times)

[Kid in the Riot]

13 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

The absence of a few notable posters on here tonight, very much back up the suggestion that they are gutted if we do well and they can't weild their agenda. 

 

34 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Come on... he's just learned how to spell "Johnson out" let him enjoy and showcase his talent!

 

26 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

And there is the point exactly!

There are very few, if any teams on the planet, who execute their game plan to perfection EVERY game. Almost every team in every division around the world will display inconsistency over the course of the coming season. Those who minimise these "off days" will be the ones celebrating come the end of the season. 

I'm all for structured, insightful opinion and discussing what could have been done differently/better in each game. Win, lose or draw. That's how improvement happens. 

It's the inane "LJ out" comments based on one bad run of games last season, even when things have looked promising either side of that period, that are pathetic. 

Personal agenda is bullying, plain & simple. Especially anonymously from behind a keyboard. 

Be constructive or quit with the petty, snide, pointless statements. Especially when we are sat exactly where the vast majority would be very satisfied for us to end the season!! 

 

Quite.

[lenred]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

i'm sorry but missing relegation by 3 points is not inconsistency, it's playing with fire especially after a near miss the season before, it's putting a spin on things.

I personally find it unfathomable how a few people on here seem to think that last season was some kind of improvement given that we were still in serious trouble with one week to go. But hey ho, people on here do think that and use their own arguments regards points tally as opposed to actual league position to back it up and I appreciate their point whilst in no way agreeing with it.  Each to their own.  

This whole 'agenda' thing though is really becoming incredibly boring, there has been some really good debate of late on the clubs current state and how people see this moving forward, but this kind of point scoring crappy thread is now becoming a usual thing (I appreciate the irony in that I'm adding to it btw!). I think all in all we appreciate where most people who post on here stand on LJ so it would be great if this place could step away from the points scoring and stick to the reasoned debate. We have one of the best forums of any club as far as I can see and it's be a shame if it descends into pure pettiness in every thread! 

[Bar BS3]

12 minutes ago, 054123 said:

I don't think there is anything more to say really. A very divisive time in the clubs history. I think overall our return to the championship has been poor with the vast majority of performances being poor (not just the results).

Its how i feel. 

I respect that you feel different and whilst i don't understand it, doesnt mean its any less valid.

Maybe last night was the turning point!

Here's hoping.

I appreciate your reply and agree on differeing opinion. All good. 

I do have to point out the factually obvious though, that the "vast majority" of LJ's time being poor is not related in the stats. 

Won=28, Drawn=14, Lost=26. 

Infact the "majority" have seen us being competitive. 

That includes the infamous record breaking bad run, of course it happened and can't/shouldn't be ignored, but if that period had even just been average, then those stats would be looking fairly healthy. By that point, I'm simply suggesting what the future might be, rather than wanting to ignore the fact that the bad run did, of course, happen. 

In fact, AT THIS LEVEL, I can't think of too many managers who have a better win percentage that LJ in my 30 years supporting the club, indeed, very few ever. Despite that horrific spell last winter. 

I'm not booking a train ticket to Wembley in May, but it baffles me when people can't see that there are some positive signs. 

[054123]

2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I appreciate your reply and agree on differeing opinion. All good. 

I do have to point out the factually obvious though, that the "vast majority" of LJ's time being poor is not related in the stats. 

Won=28, Drawn=14, Lost=26. 

Infact the "majority" have seen us being competitive. 

That includes the infamous record breaking bad run, of course it happened and can't/shouldn't be ignored, but if that period had even just been average, then those stats would be looking fairly healthy. By that point, I'm simply suggesting what the future might be, rather than wanting to ignore the fact that the bad run did, of course, happen. 

In fact, AT THIS LEVEL, I can't think of too many managers who have a better win percentage that LJ in my 30 years supporting the club, indeed, very few ever. Despite that horrific spell last winter. 

I'm not booking a train ticket to Wembley in May, but it baffles me when people can't see that there are some positive signs. 

Its all quite amusing really.

I'm sure you want exactly the same thing as i do. 

[Bar BS3]

23 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

We stayed up by the skin of our teeth 3 points, explain the improvement there?.

You need me to explain the difference in being rooted to the bottom of the table when LJ arrived, looking completely out of our depth, compared to only being in the relegation zone for a couple of weeks all season, most importantly not finishing in it..? 

[Bar BS3]

22 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

 

 

Quite.

Touché! 

Although I do like to think that I do add some reasoning behind most of my posts, whether you agree with them or not. 

I shall refrain from adding to petty replies in future and hope that some of the worst culprits will also take heed. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

8 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

You need me to explain the difference in being rooted to the bottom of the table when LJ arrived, looking completely out of our depth, compared to only being in the relegation zone for a couple of weeks all season, most importantly not finishing in it..? 

We weren't  'rooted to the bottom of the table'' when LJ arrived

IIRC  the win over Boro , ( followed up with momentum with  a win at Charlton )?under JP took us out , and we never fell back in it

[Kid in the Riot]

8 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

You need me to explain the difference in being rooted to the bottom of the table when LJ arrived, looking completely out of our depth, compared to only being in the relegation zone for a couple of weeks all season, most importantly not finishing in it..? 

We were 3 points clear of the relegation zone when LJ arrived and finished 3 points clear of it last season.

You're welcome.

[Bar BS3]

4 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

We weren't  'rooted to the bottom of the table'' when LJ arrived

 

Ok, granted. I was thinking the point at which SC left. 

I'm a big fan of SC and what he achieved here, but he was out of his depth at this level and we were heading straight back to where we had done so well to come from. Pembo steadied the ship with some glaringly obvious tactical switches over the 4? Games he was interim and LJ continued that to finish comfortably safe. 

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

We were 3 points clear of the relegation zone when LJ arrived and finished 3 points clear of it last season.

You're welcome.

Noted and replied to above. I had wrongly forgotten the short interim period of Pembo. 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

wouldn't have gone to games if we appointed Warnock, but that is a seperate matter

Out of interest, why is that?

[redandy1]

14 hours ago, Redtucks said:

Clueless Johnson again!

Still playing Bobby Reid as a striker, only scored five.

Our kids are crap, fancy playing Vyner, Kelly and Hinds.

He doesn’t know what he’s doing!

We’ll get stuffed at Watford!

Come on all you moaning gits, how about a bit of credit!

Or are you all going to crawl back into the woodwork till we lose again???

 

Pathetic.

[Numero Uno]

I see there being three camps at present:-

Those who think Johnson can do no wrong

Those who think he can do no right

Those, like me, who are looking for improvement from him

If we can replicate last nights performance on a more regular basis he will get a relatively easy ride. Keep churning out Brentford/Millwall displays and he won't!!

But either way do we need the pathetic points scoring posts every Saturday and Tuesday from people in the first two camps? Never known our fan base so divided.

[JamesBCFC]

21 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Out of interest, why is that?

I cannot stand his football, or the bloke.

While we havent necessarily always had a style. The vast majority of the time I have watched City (IIRC from a past chat we are a similar age) we have played nice and usually attacking football, or at least tried to, with varying degrees of success.

Under Wilson we might have underachieved perhaps by not getting the promotion, most games were exciting, we had wingers pushing forward when they could and overlapping fullbacks.

Didnt see so much from Gary J until SOD, but the times we did was similar under varying managers (not so much Gary J).

Admittedly I got lucky in the games I was able to go to. Until the game vs Blackburn under Cotts I had never seen us lose in the Championship despite making it to a handful of games each season, notably seeing the 3-1 over Coventry in one of the 'great escape years' and the 4-1 over Palace, 4-2 over Cardiff and 5-3 over Barnsley the year we went down.

SOD was less attacking, though we were definitely going through a bit of a transition.

Under Cotts we were attacking again and we have been attacking teams for the most part under LJ.

On the other hand, Warnock tells his players to break up games (Rovrum game around the time LJ came in as a prime example) and has had his players get a match abandoned in the past.

He may well be a good manager at this level (and inept at the one above) but City, during my time, havent been a dirty, cynical, cheating side. Personally I like that, though we could use a bit more nous and bite at times.

His appointment would also be completely at odds of what we are trying to do with developing youth.

[Phileas Fogg]

9 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I cannot stand his football, or the bloke.

While we havent necessarily always had a style. The vast majority of the time I have watched City (IIRC from a past chat we are a similar age) we have played nice and usually attacking football, or at least tried to, with varying degrees of success.

Under Wilson we might have underachieved perhaps by not getting the promotion, most games were exciting, we had wingers pushing forward when they could and overlapping fullbacks.

Didnt see so much from Gary J until SOD, but the times we did was similar under varying managers (not so much Gary J).

Admittedly I got lucky in the games I was able to go to. Until the game vs Blackburn under Cotts I had never seen us lose in the Championship despite making it to a handful of games each season, notably seeing the 3-1 over Coventry in one of the 'great escape years' and the 4-1 over Palace, 4-2 over Cardiff and 5-3 over Barnsley the year we went down.

SOD was less attacking, though we were definitely going through a bit of a transition.

Under Cotts we were attacking again and we have been attacking teams for the most part under LJ.

On the other hand, Warnock tells his players to break up games (Rovrum game around the time LJ came in as a prime example) and has had his players get a match abandoned in the past.

He may well be a good manager at this level (and inept at the one above) but City, during my time, havent been a dirty, cynical, cheating side. Personally I like that, though we could use a bit more nous and bite at times.

His appointment would also be completely at odds of what we are trying to do with developing youth.

I see, not sure if that would make stop attending games though.

As for him as a person - I would suggest reading his autobiography. You get a much better picture of the guy.

His persona is all an act, playing the pantomime villain diverts attention away from his players. Really surprised fans still get wound up about him actually, he's just an old dog who knows how to play the system. 

He is a very effective manager and probably would do well in the short-medium term here.

[Monkeh]

I'm still here, I'll still be critical when he warrants it

[JamesBCFC]

7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I see, not sure if that would make stop attending games though.

As for him as a person - I would suggest reading his autobiography. You get a much better picture of the guy.

His persona is all an act, playing the pantomime villain diverts attention away from his players. Really surprised fans still get wound up about him actually, he's just an old dog who knows how to play the system. 

He is a very effective manager and probably would do well in the short-medium term here.

Short term he would probably do well. I would want him to.

But long term, he would be a very poor appointment.

In a way this theoretical thing is my "I will boo" moment.

I would wish him the best of luck with us, but would not attend (rather than being a lone booer in a crowd of thousands) because I don't want to watch a nasty, cynical team.

Instead I would use the saved money and watch one of the local teams (probably BMF- season ticket is only £100 and they play great stuff) until he was gone, while still following Citys results and posting on here etc.

 

If I wanted to watch a bunch of grown men rolling around pretending to be injured, then I'm sure I could find some sort of indie play, and they'd be better actors too.

[Gert Mare]

3 hours ago, Leveller said:

Can we drop the "happy clapper" label please? To be honest I think that is where the sarcasm and backbiting began.

When the vast majority wanted LJ out, the few that wanted to give him time got shouted down.

It wasn't where it began. It was a response to an attack from supporters wearing rose tinted specs because the views weren't positive. 

Happy to drop the Happy Clappy myself, but may use it again if the truce doesn't hold sway both on the other side of the fence 

[Phileas Fogg]

29 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I'm still here, I'll still be critical when he warrants it

You're hardly a critic !

26 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Short term he would probably do well. I would want him to.

But long term, he would be a very poor appointment.

In a way this theoretical thing is my "I will boo" moment.

I would wish him the best of luck with us, but would not attend (rather than being a lone booer in a crowd of thousands) because I don't want to watch a nasty, cynical team.

Instead I would use the saved money and watch one of the local teams (probably BMF- season ticket is only £100 and they play great stuff) until he was gone, while still following Citys results and posting on here etc.

 

If I wanted to watch a bunch of grown men rolling around pretending to be injured, then I'm sure I could find some sort of indie play, and they'd be better actors too.

Interesting. Don't think there's any manager that would make me boycott the games. 

Read his book though if you can, very good read and lots of anecdotes from his career.

[Monkeh]

26 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You're hardly a critic !

Interesting. Don't think there's any manager that would make me boycott the games. 

Read his book though if you can, very good read and lots of anecdotes from his career.

saying he shouldn't be in charge and the sooner he's gone the better isn't critical,

there's a difference, I don't bring it up in every thread all the time

[nellie]

im still here he hasnt won me over yet in fact hes miles away from winning me over  

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

But long term, he would be a very poor appointment.

 

 

 

 

I find this sentence quite revealing, a) you have no way of knowing this and b) I suspect that people like myself who have been less than enthused by the news that LJ was the new manager and apart from his first few months less than enthused since, would have taken a kicking over such a remark.

[JamesBCFC]

14 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I find this sentence quite revealing, a) you have no way of knowing this and b) I suspect that people like myself who have been less than enthused by the news that LJ was the new manager and apart from his first few months less than enthused since, would have taken a kicking over such a remark.

Which clubs has LJ left worse off because of his time there?

None so far, and while on field progress has been slow, we have made strides forwards in off field matters.

Warnock ran away from the Palace job once things didnt look so good with off field issues. Spent beyond the clubs means at QPR. 

So such a comment about LJ would have been founded on nothing.

On Warnock, not so.

 

 

[JamesBCFC]

5 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Or you get people like @Big Red Rich who rubbish every post you make, but never actually give a response or a reason for it.

If you're gonna 'rubbish' half of my posts, at least debate what is said once in a while.

 

Waits for inevitable 'rubbish from said poster- wont wait for a response mind.

Got that bit right. 

He rubbished it as I was adding the edit 

Still not getting any actual debate from him, just rubbishing half the posts I make. So childish.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

8 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Which clubs has LJ left worse off because of his time there?

None so far, and while on field progress has been slow, we have made strides forwards in off field matters.

Warnock ran away from the Palace job once things didnt look so good with off field issues. Spent beyond the clubs means at QPR. 

So such a comment about LJ would have been founded on nothing.

On Warnock, not so.

 

 

Barnsley fans would argue about exactly what state he left the club in.

A manager can only spend what he is allowed to spend by the owner end of.

And as somebody pointed out over a week ago LJ has spent more at BCFC than Brentford have in their entire history and they made us look like parks team, yes we gained a point but LJ got out of jail that night

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Barnsley fans would argue about exactly what state he left the club in.

A manager can only spend what he is allowed to spend by the owner end of.

And as somebody pointed out over a week ago LJ has spent more at BCFC than Brentford have in their entire history and they made us look like parks team, yes we gained a point but LJ got out of jail that night

Really?

He left them on a good run, having just secured a place at Wembley, while working within the "sell good players, recruit young ones" guidlines.

Not an expert on his transfers, but think a few of the ones sold recently for good money, were ones he signed for peanuts.

That doesnt seem to be leaving them up a certain creek in any way?

Most Barnsley fans are bitter because he left them after the club stood by him.

A bit like if, after the losing run last year, LJ left us, the negatives of his time here would be blown even more out of proportion than currently.

 

Ah, so because some money was spent, no bad performance is allowed, ever?

Perhaps you should let Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool/Barcelona/Real Madrid/PSG/Monaco etc know this.

Or perhaps, let Watford know, after all, our second string (bar 2 players) got a deserved win there yesterday.

No bad performances ever if money is spent, a manager MUST be sacked if one player has a bad game. Nothing else is good enough!

[cityloyal473]

I have been and remain one of his biggest critics.  I have not been to a game since Burton home last season.  He broke me.  He still breaks me.  He is not the man to lead the club forward IMO.  I wont come back until he's gone.  A win in a tinpot trophy against a second string prem side doesn't change my opinion of him.  Johnson out.

[Up The City!]

Well I think LJ is doing a grand job. If anyone can't see the improvements then they clearly know nothing about football. We are a work in progress, we will be inconsistent whilst we work to improve ourselves in every department . As long as I continue to see that progress I will back LJ.

There is a section of our fan Base who have had it in for LJ from the moment he signed for us, that has continued into his management career with us. The second we have a bad result they crawl out of the woodwork and you would think the end of the world is nigh. When we have a good result you don't see them for shit. 

The disgusting abuse he gets makes me want to stick up for him more.

I am certain these sort of people will us to lose just so they can sprout their rubbish. These people don't want Bristol City to be successful, they just want to be right. It's sad.

[Leveller]

4 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I see there being three camps at present:-

Those who think Johnson can do no wrong

Those who think he can do no right

Those, like me, who are looking for improvement from him

If we can replicate last nights performance on a more regular basis he will get a relatively easy ride. Keep churning out Brentford/Millwall displays and he won't!!

But either way do we need the pathetic points scoring posts every Saturday and Tuesday from people in the first two camps? Never known our fan base so divided.

I don't think there is a "Johnson can do no wrong" camp at all.

I think it breaks down into

1 - Johnson can do no right and

2 - Johnson is unproven but may come good.

I'm in 2, like a lot of others, but I can't recall any poster who thinks we are the finished article and heading for promotion. We'd just be happy with 10th. Where we are at the moment.

[cidered abroad]

36 minutes ago, cityloyal473 said:

I have been and remain one of his biggest critics.  I have not been to a game since Burton home last season.  He broke me.  He still breaks me.  He is not the man to lead the club forward IMO.  I wont come back until he's gone.  A win in a tinpot trophy against a second string prem side doesn't change my opinion of him.  Johnson out.

As one who is not one of LJ's biggest admirers, I admire your stance but however upset I was through the winter of discontent, after I stayed away from the Norwich home game as a silent protest, I knew that my place as a supporter was on the terraces backing the team.

I'm still nowhere near comfortable with our performances and what I saw last Saturday was absolutely dire. Given that the Millwall tactics were "anti football", with all the niggling of a Warnock team and did not put Neil Harris in a very good light for me, I felt that our lack of trying to change the way the game was down to the Head Coach and not the players on the pitch.

Any more league performances like that will drain our fragile confidence and we know what that leads to.

So cityloyal473, give it go and come back where you know you should be. It may not endear you to LJ but at least you know you are backing your team as best you can.