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Redtucks

Where are Johnson's critics? (Merged many times)

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Put some bread on the water and up they come......

My point is that rather than post reactionary bollocks whenever we don't play well or whenever we do why don't we all just get behind the team and Johnson and support?

But thanks to everyone for your usual balanced replies ;)

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keep on going with these threads. They're a great reflection on the attitudes of far too many fans who clearly aren't self aware of their behaviour. 

They say, "I'm glad to be proved wrong" or "I'm only voicing my concern" but the language they use doesn't reflect this. You can take issue with the way the club is wrong or the coach's tactics but at lest be respectful and consistent. 

Most importantly if you post a thread saying the managers clueless and that we're certainly bottom 4 again, take it as well as you dish it out when someone makes a thread like this. 

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1 minute ago, 1bristolcity said:

42 posts, and like you care, gas you are, The anti LJ agenda on here is spoiling this site, time for mods to clean up I think.

No.

Some people want LJ out.

That's fine. Opinions should be allowed, and debated.

The thing with @GIBBO THE GREAT is that he doesn't actually debate anything. Just posts "Johnson out" repeatedly.

Would be good to see if Gibbo could do an actual post stating his reasons, his concerns and why he doesn't think LJ can address those. 

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1 hour ago, SARJ said:

A decent cup win and the bloke's a saint

A poor draw and the bloke's Satan's love child.

I think he'll be found out to be somewhere between the two.

And if the division on OTIB was reflected at BS3 with 18,000 fans then OTIB would be a fair reflection of what the majority of fans think but that really doesn't seem to be the case.

The grief given by some against SL ( what does he see?) is a tiny minority who are very loud on a forum.

We're a big club but not a massive club.

We're competently run but not brilliantly run

We spend money but not ridiculous amounts

We invest for the future but it hinders the present

We stick with a young Manager but his inexperience shows

We're doing just about ok but no cigar

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One thing I will add, which is probably worth being in its own post, rather than just added on to a response to someone else.

I think most regular posters on here will realise I was one who defended LJ a lot last season. Don't think I ever called for his head- though I came very close to doing so.

I have concerns about LJ.

I absolutely think he has some shortfalls as a manager, but, some of the abuse he got last season was disgraceful, which made me want to back him more (I think others have posted similar).

But the main reason(s) I didn't call for his head is that by the end of the bad run I didn't care who the manager was (wouldn't have gone to games if we appointed Warnock, but that is a seperate matter) as long as we stayed up. 

Add to this that I am utterly sick of the same old sack the manager-> stay up by skin of teeth-> relegation fight-> sack manager etc etc cycle. And that I had seen enough promise to believe we weren't going down under him.

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18 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

Put some bread on the water and up they come......

My point is that rather than post reactionary bollocks whenever we don't play well or whenever we do why don't we all just get behind the team and Johnson and support?

But thanks to everyone for your usual balanced replies ;)

Your point seems to have escaped you.

Can you actually tell the difference between reactionary bollocks and debate about genuine concerns?

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1 minute ago, Nibor said:

Your point seems to have escaped you.

Can you actually tell the difference between reactionary bollocks and debate about genuine concerns?

I think there is a lot more of the former (both sides guilty, but moreso the 'out brigade').

Posts such as writing us off as relegated, with 20 minutes remaining in the third game of the season being a prime example.

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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

I think there is a lot more of the former (both sides guilty, but moreso the 'out brigade').

Posts such as writing us off as relegated, with 20 minutes remaining in the third game of the season being a prime example.

There's actually very, very little of the former and usually only from two or three posters who regularly post bollocks not unlike the ones who started this thread and the ones merged into it - boring hypocrites.

If you read the larger threads post Millwall there is a vast amount of sensible discussion on both sides of the coin.  That's fairly typical.

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12 hours ago, Redtucks said:

Clueless Johnson again!

Still playing Bobby Reid as a striker, only scored five.

Our kids are crap, fancy playing Vyner, Kelly and Hinds.

He doesn’t know what he’s doing!

We’ll get stuffed at Watford!

Come on all you moaning gits, how about a bit of credit!

Or are you all going to crawl back into the woodwork till we lose again???

 

The crowned prince of Happy-Clappy Kingdom.

:worship2:

 

tfj  :yes:

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I'm a Johnson sceptic rather than a Johnson critic.  He hasn't done enough to convince me that he's the best man long-term to manage the club. 

I certainly don't dislike the guy and I recognise he has his good points.

We need to pull off some upsets in the league now before I  think about reversing my opinion. 

What last night shows is that our academy and youth recruitment policy is vastly improved on years gone by.

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19 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

No.

Some people want LJ out.

That's fine. Opinions should be allowed, and debated.

The thing with @GIBBO THE GREAT is that he doesn't actually debate anything. Just posts "Johnson out" repeatedly.

Would be good to see if Gibbo could do an actual post stating his reasons, his concerns and why he doesn't think LJ can address those. 

But if he is a Gibbon, even a great one it might not be easy, but if he keeps hammering away at the keyboard it is said a word might even form, but I doubt it.

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1 minute ago, Nibor said:

There's actually very, very little of the former and usually only from two or three posters who regularly post bollocks not unlike the ones who started this thread and the ones merged into it - boring hypocrites.

If you read the larger threads post Millwall there is a vast amount of sensible discussion on both sides of the coin.  That's fairly typical.

Oh there is absolutely good reasoned debate.

Perhaps should have said "more than there should be" with the reactionary stuff.

But once one person comes out with it, you get a reactionary type post from the other side.

Then the stuff which is clearly taking the piss like the sarcastic "but where are the goals coming from" posts when we score (I may be guilty of a couple of them :innocent06:)

Not sure the people merging the posts are necessarily being hypocritical, just mods tidying up the forum.

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12 hours ago, Redtucks said:

Clueless Johnson again!

Still playing Bobby Reid as a striker, only scored five.

Our kids are crap, fancy playing Vyner, Kelly and Hinds.

He doesn’t know what he’s doing!

We’ll get stuffed at Watford!

Come on all you moaning gits, how about a bit of credit!

Or are you all going to crawl back into the woodwork till we lose again???

 

Read this post....can't even be f*cked to read the whole thread. Pointless 

Time will tell. I predicted in March 2016 this manager will not progress us. And until I see something that proves otherwise....I'll keep saying it. I certainly have never crawled back in to any woodwork 

A good win last night indeed. Credit where credit is due for sure.

Let's see where we are come November . I hope if your wrong you won't go crawling into any woodwork 

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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

Oh there is absolutely good reasoned debate.

Perhaps should have said "more than there should be" with the reactionary stuff.

But once one person comes out with it, you get a reactionary type post from the other side.

Then the stuff which is clearly taking the piss like the sarcastic "but where are the goals coming from" posts when we score (I may be guilty of a couple of them :innocent06:)

Not sure the people merging the posts are necessarily being hypocritical, just mods tidying up the forum.

That's not what I said - the people who started this thread and the ones (meaning threads) merged into it.

Perhaps we could lay off the boring "I told you so" posts on both sides rather than just pretending it's only "the other side" that does it.

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3 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I'm a Johnson sceptic rather than a Johnson critic.  He hasn't done enough to convince me that he's the best man long-term to manage the club. 

I certainly don't dislike the guy and I recognise he has his good points.

We need to pull off some upsets in the league now before I  think about reversing my opinion. 

What last night shows is that our academy and youth recruitment policy is vastly improved on years gone by.

How long does he have then? Certainly as a club we are about where we should be, as far as could be well, that takes time, no good starting all over because some fans want a change, just for the sake of it, hardly a plan is it.?

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6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

One thing I will add, which is probably worth being in its own post, rather than just added on to a response to someone else.

I think most regular posters on here will realise I was one who defended LJ a lot last season. Don't think I ever called for his head- though I came very close to doing so.

I have concerns about LJ.

I absolutely think he has some shortfalls as a manager, but, some of the abuse he got last season was disgraceful, which made me want to back him more (I think others have posted similar).

But the main reason(s) I didn't call for his head is that by the end of the bad run I didn't care who the manager was (wouldn't have gone to games if we appointed Warnock, but that is a seperate matter) as long as we stayed up. 

Add to this that I am utterly sick of the same old sack the manager-> stay up by skin of teeth-> relegation fight-> sack manager etc etc cycle. And that I had seen enough promise to believe we weren't going down under him.

Pretty much summarises my feelings. I was not surprised when we appointed Lee Johnson and I think his track record is middling so far - the jury is out as far as I'm concerned. I tend to favour continuity in the face of the increasing short termism in football though. In fact, before L J was appointed, I was one of the small minority that would have given Cotterill more time.

However, any suggestion of giving a manager longer to turn things round seems to attract the "happy clapper" abuse. 

Yet I think there is hardly anyone on OTIB who thinks LJ is brilliant, the future is definitely bright and we are heading for the top six. Those of us who call for patience are just hopeful, rather than optimistic. 

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1 minute ago, Nibor said:

That's not what I said - the people who started this thread and the ones (meaning threads) merged into it.

Perhaps we could lay off the boring "I told you so" posts on both sides rather than just pretending it's only "the other side" that does it.

Ah, apoligies, misinterpretation on my part.

 

I did say both sides are guilty to be fair. I don't disagree with your second paragraph.

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1 minute ago, 1bristolcity said:

How long does he have then? Certainly as a club we are about where we should be, as far as could be well, that takes time, no good starting all over because some fans want a change, just for the sake of it, hardly a plan is it.?

I'd like to see the club sitting well clear of the relegation  zone by Christmas. If we can maintain roughly where we are in the league that'll be visible progress from last season. 

The last three league games were not inspiring however and we have some tough games coming up.

Time will tell, but until we've played about 10 league games it's daft to try to predict how the season will work out. Like most folk, I'm giving Lee the benefit of the doubt. 

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Look I know we have our differences of opinion on OTIB.

What do we expect on a forum??

I'll say one thing as an olive branch:-

At least Lee Johnson has united the fan base.

:yes:

 

 

 

:tomato:

 

tfj

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13 hours ago, Redtucks said:

Clueless Johnson again!

Still playing Bobby Reid as a striker, only scored five.

Our kids are crap, fancy playing Vyner, Kelly and Hinds.

He doesn’t know what he’s doing!

We’ll get stuffed at Watford!

Come on all you moaning gits, how about a bit of credit!

Or are you all going to crawl back into the woodwork till we lose again???

 

Good Morning Mr S Lansdown, I'll back the team but not JOHNSON 

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6 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Oh there is absolutely good reasoned debate.

Perhaps should have said "more than there should be" with the reactionary stuff.

But once one person comes out with it, you get a reactionary type post from the other side.

Then the stuff which is clearly taking the piss like the sarcastic "but where are the goals coming from" posts when we score (I may be guilty of a couple of them :innocent06:)

Not sure the people merging the posts are necessarily being hypocritical, just mods tidying up the forum.

So if there is absolutely good reasoned debate, please explain where the OP fits into that particular scenario?, are we to expect drivel like this with every win in a 4 game run? or even at the end of a record breaking run of league defeats?.

LJ's record is hardly inspiring, loadsamoney spent and quite a bit of that loadsamoney cannot buy a league start and I am sure that you know what I think about our midfield.

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13 hours ago, Redtucks said:

Clueless Johnson again!

Still playing Bobby Reid as a striker, only scored five.

Our kids are crap, fancy playing Vyner, Kelly and Hinds.

He doesn’t know what he’s doing!

We’ll get stuffed at Watford!

Come on all you moaning gits, how about a bit of credit!

Or are you all going to crawl back into the woodwork till we lose again???

 

WINNER!!

I was hoping for one of these posts. Over the moon we won last night and credit to Johnson for selecting just the right team and tactics to get a result.

I'm really looking forward to Villa Friday now as hopefully this means we have put Brentford, Millwall and last season all together, firmly in the bin.

COYR!!!!!!!!!!!! 

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1 minute ago, shelts said:

Great result doesn't excuse Saturday 

What's there to excuse? Millwall shut us down effectively. Bad day at the office but drawing 0-0 in the division is hardly inexcusable. Therein lies the problem with a lot of fans here. 

In fairness I believe as a fan base we haven't gotten over the seasons of disappointment and getting relegated 4-7 years ago. Pared with the division winning team who played with a consistent, dominating play style. 

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1 minute ago, Odysseus said:

What's there to excuse? Millwall shut us down effectively. Bad day at the office but drawing 0-0 in the division is hardly inexcusable. Therein lies the problem with a lot of fans here. 

In fairness I believe as a fan base we haven't gotten over the seasons of disappointment and getting relegated 4-7 years ago. Pared with the division winning team who played with a consistent, dominating play style. 

Maybe I should've gone into things a tad more. So many similarities from last season already . Frightening really. 

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1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

So if there is absolutely good reasoned debate, please explain where the OP fits into that particular scenario?, are we to expect drivel like this with every win in a 4 game run? or even at the end of a record breaking run of league defeats?.

LJ's record is hardly inspiring, loadsamoney spent and quite a bit of that loadsamoney cannot buy a league start and I am sure that you know what I think about our midfield.

Where did I suggest anything of the kind?

I said the reactionary posts from both sides are poor and agreed with @Nibor when he said both sides should lay off the "I told you so" posts

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1 minute ago, Odysseus said:

What's there to excuse? Millwall shut us down effectively. Bad day at the office but drawing 0-0 in the division is hardly inexcusable. Therein lies the problem with a lot of fans here. 

In fairness I believe as a fan base we haven't gotten over the seasons of disappointment and getting relegated 4-7 years ago. Pared with the division winning team who played with a consistent, dominating play style. 

For an hour against Birmingham we went from a bad day at the office to dire, the only thing inspiring against Brentford was we fluked a draw, the display was hardly a bad day at the office it was beyond dire and then we followed it up with another dire performance against Millwall, hardly as isolated as you are trying to depict it and therein lies the problem with a lot of fans here.

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12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We are inexperienced and therefore inconsistent at this level.  Much like a lot of this division.

We really don't have a top notch player or three that carry their inconsistent teammates through games and get results like your Brighton's and Newcastle's.

I think this is a massive point which isn't given enough debate actually.

We've seen a full spectrum of displays in our first 6 games. Clearly some performances have shown we have good potential, but it is a work in progress.

So when we relapse and perform badly, because of inexperience we naturally fall back to old, bad habits. It is easy then to say "Oh City and Johnson never learn from their mistakes, same old City" and fear for the worse, i.e another relegation battle. 

I'm personally more of the opinion that we are progressing and that these bad performances will be more a 'hangover' to the worst of last season, rather than an inherent issue in the squad. 

Basically we will have good games ala last night and we will have bad games. The fact is we are proving harder to beat this year, and for that reason I think we will be fine. 

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51 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

No.

Some people want LJ out.

That's fine. Opinions should be allowed, and debated.

The thing with @GIBBO THE GREAT is that he doesn't actually debate anything. Just posts "Johnson out" repeatedly.

Would be good to see if Gibbo could do an actual post stating his reasons, his concerns and why he doesn't think LJ can address those. 

Come on... he's just learned how to spell "Johnson out" let him enjoy and showcase his talent!

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3 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I think this is a massive point which isn't given enough debate actually.

We've seen a full spectrum of displays in our first 6 games. Clearly some performances have shown we have good potential, but it is a work in progress.

So when we relapse and perform badly, because of inexperience we naturally fall back to old, bad habits. It is easy then to say "Oh City and Johnson never learn from their mistakes, same old City" and fear for the worse, i.e another relegation battle. 

I'm personally more of the opinion that we are progressing and that these bad performances will be more a 'hangover' to the worst of last season, rather than an inherent issue in the squad. 

Basically we will have good games ala last night and we will have bad games. The fact is we are proving harder to beat this year, and for that reason I think we will be fine. 

Agreed with this.

 

I also challenge anyone on here to find a team that played brilliantly every game of any season. Even the Arsenal "Invincibles" didn't manage that.

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12 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

For an hour against Birmingham we went from a bad day at the office to dire, the only thing inspiring against Brentford was we fluked a draw, the display was hardly a bad day at the office it was beyond dire and then we followed it up with another dire performance against Millwall, hardly as isolated as you are trying to depict it and therein lies the problem with a lot of fans here.

We are inconsistent - nobody is denying that. If we were consistently good, we would be in the top six. If we alternate good performances with less good, we will achieve the mid table finish that most would accept, for the moment.

The problem is that every off day is being treated like Armageddon.

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I'll never forget when we were 3-0 up at Derby last season and some belter started a thread asking where all the haters were. It's so petty and ridiculous. Just chill out, people have different opinions of course they're not going to voice them after every game we have. 

Johnson in

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32 minutes ago, Odysseus said:

What's there to excuse? Millwall shut us down effectively. Bad day at the office but drawing 0-0 in the division is hardly inexcusable. Therein lies the problem with a lot of fans here. 

In fairness I believe as a fan base we haven't gotten over the seasons of disappointment and getting relegated 4-7 years ago. Pared with the division winning team who played with a consistent, dominating play style. 

You see, i've been watching for a long time and can honestly say that the body of work presented since our return to this division has been overall, very poor.

There has been no progress on the pitch and we are always feel like we have to start again.

I really don't care who the manager is who finally delivers on on Steve Ls loft ambitions and cant wait for it to happen, i'm just staggered how people can spin positive on the last 2 and a bit years.

Roll on Friday, today is the first day of the rest of our lives, who knows for certain what will happen.

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1 minute ago, JamesBCFC said:

Agreed with this.

 

I also challenge anyone on here to find a team that played brilliantly every game of any season. Even the Arsenal "Invincibles" didn't manage that.

And there is the point exactly!

There are very few, if any teams on the planet, who execute their game plan to perfection EVERY game. Almost every team in every division around the world will display inconsistency over the course of the coming season. Those who minimise these "off days" will be the ones celebrating come the end of the season. 

I'm all for structured, insightful opinion and discussing what could have been done differently/better in each game. Win, lose or draw. That's how improvement happens. 

It's the inane "LJ out" comments based on one bad run of games last season, even when things have looked promising either side of that period, that are pathetic. 

Personal agenda is bullying, plain & simple. Especially anonymously from behind a keyboard. 

Be constructive or quit with the petty, snide, pointless statements. Especially when we are sat exactly where the vast majority would be very satisfied for us to end the season!! 

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6 minutes ago, Leveller said:

We are inconsistent - nobody is denying that. If we were consistently good, we would be in the top six. If we alternate good performances with less good, we will achieve the mid table finish that most would accept, for the moment.

The problem is that every off day is being treated like Armageddon.

And finishing 18th, avoiding relegation by 12 points, then finishing 17th and avoiding relegation by 3 points, is consistently what?

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3 minutes ago, 054123 said:

You see, i've been watching for a long time and can honestly say that the body of work presented since our return to this division has been overall, very poor.

There has been no progress on the pitch and we are always feel like we have to start again.

I really don't care who the manager is who finally delivers on on Steve Ls loft ambitions and cant wait for it to happen, i'm just staggered how people can spin positive on the last 2 and a bit years.

Roll on Friday, today is the first day of the rest of our lives, you knows for certain what will happen.

Saying there has been no progress on the pitch since our return to the championship, simply isn't true. FACT!

We came up and struggled. We were unable to change our game plan or formation, we were rooted to the foot of the table, getting stuffed by any half decent side. We had a team of players arguably too good for L1 but not up to the Championship. 

Compare that to now/last season. 

How long did we actually spend in the relegation zone..? It took a club record run of bad form to even get close to it, from which we recovered. We now sit in mid table (albeit only after a few games) and we haven't capitulated in the league cup in either season, which had become the norm for us. 

Room for further improvement? God yes. 

No improvement visible..? Nonsense. 

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4 minutes ago, 054123 said:

And finishing 18th, avoiding relegation by 12 points, then finishing 17th and avoiding relegation by 3 points, is consistently what?

Consistently a championship team. 

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5 minutes ago, 054123 said:

And finishing 18th, avoiding relegation by 12 points, then finishing 17th and avoiding relegation by 3 points, is consistently what?

It's consistently better than the previous couple of years playing in a lower league.

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3 minutes ago, 054123 said:

And finishing 18th, avoiding relegation by 12 points, then finishing 17th and avoiding relegation by 3 points, is consistently what?

It is us finishing in a higher position with a higher points tally.

Theoretically a team could win the league and only be seperated from a relegated side by goals scored, or even discipline. The overall points tally is a better guage than "amount of points relegation was avoided by"

However, something happening 2 times is no where near "consistantly" of anything

 

What the tallies of the relegated sides do show, however is that either, the league was much weaker last season, or the bottom sides (Rotherham aside) were stronger. The reality is a mixture of the two

 

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6 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

And there is the point exactly!

There are very few, if any teams on the planet, who execute their game plan to perfection EVERY game. Almost every team in every division around the world will display inconsistency over the course of the coming season. Those who minimise these "off days" will be the ones celebrating come the end of the season. 

I'm all for structured, insightful opinion and discussing what could have been done differently/better in each game. Win, lose or draw. That's how improvement happens. 

It's the inane "LJ out" comments based on one bad run of games last season, even when things have looked promising either side of that period, that are pathetic. 

Personal agenda is bullying, plain & simple. Especially anonymously from behind a keyboard. 

Be constructive or quit with the petty, snide, pointless statements. Especially when we are sat exactly where the vast majority would be very satisfied for us to end the season!! 

I think my issue is not with Lee Johnson or the club or Steve Lansdown, but more i cannot fathom how people can spin positive on the overall footballing performance since our return to this division.

I really do get behind being positive for the future and i send myself horse most home games singing and cheering the boys on. I love taking my boys and hope that every next game is the turning point for the club.

I just find it amazing how people who have obviously watched us finish 18th, avoiding relegation by 12 points, then finish 17th and avoiding relegation by 3 points, and the vast majority of performances during that time that were utter rubbish, can call it anything  else.

 

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8 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Saying there has been no progress on the pitch since our return to the championship, simply isn't true. FACT!

We came up and struggled. We were unable to change our game plan or formation, we were rooted to the foot of the table, getting stuffed by any half decent side. We had a team of players arguably too good for L1 but not up to the Championship. 

Compare that to now/last season. 

How long did we actually spend in the relegation zone..? It took a club record run of bad form to even get close to it, from which we recovered. We now sit in mid table (albeit only after a few games) and we haven't capitulated in the league cup in either season, which had become the norm for us. 

Room for further improvement? God yes. 

No improvement visible..? Nonsense. 

I don't think there is anything more to say really. A very divisive time in the clubs history. I think overall our return to the championship has been poor with the vast majority of performances being poor (not just the results).

Its how i feel. 

I respect that you feel different and whilst i don't understand it, doesnt mean its any less valid.

Maybe last night was the turning point!

Here's hoping.

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6 minutes ago, 054123 said:

I just find it amazing how people who have obviously watched us finish 18th, avoiding relegation by 12 points, then finish 17th and avoiding relegation by 3 points, and the vast majority of performances during that time that were utter rubbish, can call it anything  else.

 

Considering the amount of games we got outself into winning positions or lost by a single goal I wouldn't say the vast majority were "rubbish". We've seen a lot of negative tactics at times but on the whole I've found following city entertaining the past few years as well as frustrating. 

Performances haven't been great so far but we have at least shored up the defence, something we have been crying out for since going up. 

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13 hours ago, Spike said:

I'm over the moon he actually played the youth and they proved their quality, if he'd lost he would have said it was to be expected, if it turned out the way it did he can bask in the glory. It doesn't change the fact that of our 4 matches prior to this we've only looked decent in one game. Sing his praises all you like, one result doesn't change a season of strange, poor decisions. Come December if we're in the top half I'll accept him turning things around, if we're in the top half as the season ends I'll accept him as a manager who can at least earn us a good finish but until then one result is not going to make him king tactician.
Congrats to him and the players, a well-earned win and great to see the youth doing so well, now let's see some consistency in the league.
 

well said

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25 minutes ago, Leveller said:

We are inconsistent - nobody is denying that. If we were consistently good, we would be in the top six. If we alternate good performances with less good, we will achieve the mid table finish that most would accept, for the moment.

The problem is that every off day is being treated like Armageddon.

i'm sorry but missing relegation by 3 points is not inconsistency, it's playing with fire especially after a near miss the season before, it's putting a spin on things.

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17 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Saying there has been no progress on the pitch since our return to the championship, simply isn't true. FACT!

We came up and struggled. We were unable to change our game plan or formation, we were rooted to the foot of the table, getting stuffed by any half decent side. We had a team of players arguably too good for L1 but not up to the Championship. 

Compare that to now/last season. 

How long did we actually spend in the relegation zone..? It took a club record run of bad form to even get close to it, from which we recovered. We now sit in mid table (albeit only after a few games) and we haven't capitulated in the league cup in either season, which had become the norm for us. 

Room for further improvement? God yes. 

No improvement visible..? Nonsense. 

We stayed up by the skin of our teeth 3 points, explain the improvement there?.

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