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the elephant in the room.


pillred

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20 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I thought he did okay last night to be honest. Gave the Villa defence enough to think about, was intriguing watching him up against 2 quality centre backs in Terry and Samba. 

Anyway, 5 games in a new country? I think I'll give him a bit longer than that. It was interesting to hear what they said about Pisano's reaction after the Brentford game (in terms of the football in this country).  

 

what was that?

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Not much more, if anything to add.  Those of you whose posts I clicked the "like" button are echoing my thoughts.

I'd suggest that some on here have no real appreciation of what it takes to play 'back to goal' at this level, or what it takes to bring out the best in your strike partner.  Or what it takes to make runs for the benefit of others, to create their space. Or what it takes to still make yourself an option knowing you're going to get a sh1t pass because the player passing it is under pressure.  Or what it takes to get a ball in from anywhere beneath shoulder height knowing your CB is gonna come through you, either hurting you or causing you to take a poor touch.

For those of us / most of us that have seen the 3x home games, then he had a 7/10, a 5/10 and a 6/10 imho.  He scored 1 and assisted 1 in those 3.  Hardly crap imho.

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8 hours ago, pillred said:

yes it's probably a bit soon to be saying it, but my opinion is, ducking already, and I hope more than you can ever know, I am wrong, famara diedeou looks the biggest waste of money I have ever seen, I am 61 and I reckon I'm faster over 10 yards than he is, disappointed does not even begin to cover it.

Interesting I thought he was good tonight and worked hard to get to the lose balls and held up the ball better. Think it's far too early to judge him aswell.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Not much more, if anything to add.  Those of you whose posts I clicked the "like" button are echoing my thoughts.

I'd suggest that some on here have no real appreciation of what it takes to play 'back to goal' at this level, or what it takes to bring out the best in your strike partner.  Or what it takes to make runs for the benefit of others, to create their space. Or what it takes to still make yourself an option knowing you're going to get a sh1t pass because the player passing it is under pressure.  Or what it takes to get a ball in from anywhere beneath shoulder height knowing your CB is gonna come through you, either hurting you or causing you to take a poor touch.

For those of us / most of us that have seen the 3x home games, then he had a 7/10, a 5/10 and a 6/10 imho.  He scored 1 and assisted 1 in those 3.  Hardly crap imho.

I dont think he's crap and I'm going to give him more time. I do appreciate he does a lot of little things but my worry is he's not getting on the end of things in the box. We haven't been getting loads of chances in opponents box but I can't recall him having many touches in or around the box in the 3 games. He is a striker after all and to be honest I would be expecting at least 13-15 goals from him but he just doesn't look likely to score at the minute. LJ did say we weren't getting the ball to our forwards quick enough and maybe that plays him out of the game some. Wouldn't be as concerned if he'd have gotten a chance or two in each match and just missed them.

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8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

After Brentford apparently he was sat in the dressing room shaking his head saying 'so fast, so fast' about English football.

 

Haha, I like Pisano, he seems a good guy. 

Where did you hear this? Was it in an LJ interview or something? 

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2 hours ago, Ser Davos Ciderworth said:

He isn't yet excelling, but he had a decent game last night and better than against Watford or Brentford. He will need a bit of time to adjust to the pace of the game, you can see him try flicks or take extra touches which might be fine in France but just won't work here. Also he's clearly a unit but needs to do some physical conditioning work which I'm sure the fitness team have covered. So in summary does he seem like £5.3m worth of player right now no, but ask me again in a couple of months and hopefully the answer will be different.

Exactly give the guy a break , judge him after another couple of months , did well last night but probably needs a proper striker up with him 

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Excuse my French but lets just wait and #@#@**" see shall we?

It seems a few people here have seen definite promise, its not all about shooting and scoring (although that's lovely) there are other factors to consider when making a judgement rather than simplistic knee jerk reactions... I prefer for now to go with the considered opinions of people who are looking at a bigger picture..

  Jury out for now, lets wait for a majority verdict by around Christmastime eh? Things can only get better I hope, but in the meantime appearances so far may have left some disappointed but as long as they haven't proved detrimental to the team, and I don't think they have, then I say play on.  We may well be pleasantly surprised yet.

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8 hours ago, pillred said:

yes it's probably a bit soon to be saying it, but my opinion is, ducking already, and I hope more than you can ever know, I am wrong, famara diedeou looks the biggest waste of money I have ever seen, I am 61 and I reckon I'm faster over 10 yards than he is, disappointed does not even begin to cover it.

I thought  the same. It is early days but I was left wondering what his strengths were. Kodjia worried teams straight away with his pace.But this bloke does not seem to pose a threat of any sort.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I dont think he's crap and I'm going to give him more time. I do appreciate he does a lot of little things but my worry is he's not getting on the end of things in the box. We haven't been getting loads of chances in opponents box but I can't recall him having many touches in or around the box in the 3 games. He is a striker after all and to be honest I would be expecting at least 13-15 goals from him but he just doesn't look likely to score at the minute. LJ did say we weren't getting the ball to our forwards quick enough and maybe that plays him out of the game some. Wouldn't be as concerned if he'd have gotten a chance or two in each match and just missed them.

I'd like him to get 13-15 to justify the fee too Joe - but that was my requirement thinking our other strikers (Reid, Djurić, Engvall, Taylor, Hinds + Woodrow - Engvall) would only a dozen between them.  I actually think Bobby could get 15-18 now I've seen his they might work as a pairing.

Fanciful?  Maybe.

With Paterson I think we could get 3 into double figures.

Might mean Diedhiou doesn't quite justify his price-tag goals-wise, but does Bobby's increase in value from zero (in a lot of people's eyes) to several million?  Dunno.

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He's a very unusual one to assess 

Most forwards and certainly £5 million pounds one have a discernible asset , pace to burn or finishing or btlrilkiant movement .......

A few years back we'd have wanted Harry Kane  for £5 million !!! - how times have changed

As for FD - no great pace , strong , willing ........

Two things have struck me about him

Watched him closely and off the ball last night and his work rate and willingness to track back etc is ridiculously commendable - he's totally a team player and will help others and helps us harass , defend and generally look more solid - His No One asset / plus for me

He looks like he will score some spectacular goals - The run from behind the goal and the attempted overhead kick from our corner first half was quite something in athletic / gymnastic / technique terms - I know the effort didn't  threaten the goal , but to run backwards the distance he did and connect with a corner at that height was IMHO) quite something,  and something few players even at this level could try , let alone connect with

Sort of striker that won't score lots but will get some spectacular ones and burst the net with the odd volley !!!

£5 million worth ?

:dunno:

Thats the ridiculous market isn't it (Hogan at £15 million on their bench)

Though his own goal tally may not break any records -  Whoever his partner is ( BR or A N Other long term) will benefit from him 

 

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21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not much more, if anything to add.  Those of you whose posts I clicked the "like" button are echoing my thoughts.

I'd suggest that some on here have no real appreciation of what it takes to play 'back to goal' at this level, or what it takes to bring out the best in your strike partner.  Or what it takes to make runs for the benefit of others, to create their space. Or what it takes to still make yourself an option knowing you're going to get a sh1t pass because the player passing it is under pressure.  Or what it takes to get a ball in from anywhere beneath shoulder height knowing your CB is gonna come through you, either hurting you or causing you to take a poor touch.

For those of us / most of us that have seen the 3x home games, then he had a 7/10, a 5/10 and a 6/10 imho.  He scored 1 and assisted 1 in those 3.  Hardly crap imho.

I agree.

I think part of it comes down to people's reasons for watching football.. This may come across as snobby/condescending but it's really not intended to be..

There's a reason why players like Albert Adomah, Scott Murray, Dziekanowski and even Aden Flint are remembered and revered by fans for many years after they've left and players like Diedhiou, Marlon Pack and Cole Skuse divide opinion.. it's because one group provide instant gratification and one group don't.

Many people go to football purely to be entertained - they loved Adomah, Murray and Dziekanowski's trickery and skill.. they love Aden Flint's full blooded challenges, goals and passion. There's nothing wrong with that - everyone should enjoy that.

Players like Diedhiou, Pack and Skuse don't provide that instant measurable excitement and gratification.. however they enable other players to provide it. Without those workmanlike team players the others couldn't shine. Fans don't always appreciate that because it's not what they're wanting to see at football.

There's a reason why top managers over the years have valued the contribution of "unexciting" players such as Busquets, Nicky Butt, Emile Heskey and Gary Neville.

I love watching the likes of Adomah, there's nothing quite like the swell of excitement as fans rise to their feet when a pacey winger charges down the byline on the break. I think it's also important to appreciate the grafters in the team that enable the likes of Adomah to do what he does.

Football is so driven by narrow margins these days - players are all top level athletes now. The game doesn't often allow for teams to set up with sides made up entirely of exciting cavalier players.

You're often relying on the mistakes of the opposition rather than the brilliance and skill of your own players. It's probably to the detriment of the game as a spectacle but it's just the way it is. To compete, you need to balance your side with hard runners and grafters who make space for others to take the spotlight.

 

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As odd as it sounds he hasn't been bought for his goals. 8-10 would be considered a success, We have a particular style of play and formation and in the grand scheme of things he is important. Not always obvious. Think Heskey and Owen.

Players to fit the formation and tactics not the other way around.

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I'd like him to get 13-15 to justify the fee too Joe - but that was my requirement thinking our other strikers (Reid, Djurić, Engvall, Taylor, Hinds + Woodrow - Engvall) would only a dozen between them.  I actually think Bobby could get 15-18 now I've seen his they might work as a pairing.

Fanciful?  Maybe.

With Paterson I think we could get 3 into double figures.

Might mean Diedhiou doesn't quite justify his price-tag goals-wise, but does Bobby's increase in value from zero (in a lot of people's eyes) to several million?  Dunno.

I'd take that Dave. He does have a lot going against him to be fair. Fee and comparisons to Kodjia from the same team and then Tammy from last season. Not fair on him really but just would like to see him get a few more touches in and around the box which isn't always up to him. Maybe it's a Chris Wood type scenario. Wasn't super prolific his first season at Leeds then has a 30 goal season. It does sometimes take longer than a few games to adapt. We will see 

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5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I agree.

I think part of it comes down to people's reasons for watching football.. This may come across as snobby/condescending but it's really not intended to be..

There's a reason why players like Albert Adomah, Scott Murray, Dziekanowski and even Aden Flint are remembered and revered by fans for many years after they've left and players like Diedhiou, Marlon Pack and Cole Skuse divide opinion.. it's because one group provide instant gratification and one group don't.

Many people go to football purely to be entertained - they loved Adomah, Murray and Dziekanowski's trickery and skill.. they love Aden Flint's full blooded challenges, goals and passion. There's nothing wrong with that - everyone should enjoy that.

Players like Diedhiou, Pack and Skuse don't provide that instant measurable excitement and gratification.. however they enable other players to provide it. Without those workmanlike team players the others couldn't shine. Fans don't always appreciate that because it's not what they're wanting to see at football.

There's a reason why top managers over the years have valued the contribution of "unexciting" players such as Busquets, Nicky Butt, Emile Heskey and Gary Neville.

I love watching the likes of Adomah, there's nothing quite like the swell of excitement as fans rise to their feet when a pacey winger charges down the byline on the break. I think it's also important to appreciate the grafters in the team that enable the likes of Adomah to do what he does.

Football is so driven by narrow margins these days - players are all top level athletes now. The game doesn't often allow for teams to set up with sides made up entirely of exciting cavalier players.

You're often relying on the mistakes of the opposition rather than the brilliance and skill of your own players. It's probably to the detriment of the game as a spectacle but it's just the way it is. To compete, you need to balance your side with hard runners and grafters who make space for others to take the spotlight.

 

Spot on.

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1 minute ago, Ashtonwurzel said:

Spot on.

 

6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I agree.

I think part of it comes down to people's reasons for watching football.. This may come across as snobby/condescending but it's really not intended to be..

There's a reason why players like Albert Adomah, Scott Murray, Dziekanowski and even Aden Flint are remembered and revered by fans for many years after they've left and players like Diedhiou, Marlon Pack and Cole Skuse divide opinion.. it's because one group provide instant gratification and one group don't.

Many people go to football purely to be entertained - they loved Adomah, Murray and Dziekanowski's trickery and skill.. they love Aden Flint's full blooded challenges, goals and passion. There's nothing wrong with that - everyone should enjoy that.

Players like Diedhiou, Pack and Skuse don't provide that instant measurable excitement and gratification.. however they enable other players to provide it. Without those workmanlike team players the others couldn't shine. Fans don't always appreciate that because it's not what they're wanting to see at football.

There's a reason why top managers over the years have valued the contribution of "unexciting" players such as Busquets, Nicky Butt, Emile Heskey and Gary Neville.

I love watching the likes of Adomah, there's nothing quite like the swell of excitement as fans rise to their feet when a pacey winger charges down the byline on the break. I think it's also important to appreciate the grafters in the team that enable the likes of Adomah to do what he does.

Football is so driven by narrow margins these days - players are all top level athletes now. The game doesn't often allow for teams to set up with sides made up entirely of exciting cavalier players.

You're often relying on the mistakes of the opposition rather than the brilliance and skill of your own players. It's probably to the detriment of the game as a spectacle but it's just the way it is. To compete, you need to balance your side with hard runners and grafters who make space for others to take the spotlight.

 

Every team needs a "Cattermole" !!

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1 hour ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

Mkyhtarien ( I can't be bothered to get the correct spelling) cost something like 25 million for Man U and was left out of the squad for months , same as Lindelof for 30 mil and he hasn't been anywhere near the squad yet as it takes time to settle and adapt .  We haven't got the luxury of a big quality squad to be able to do that so we have to chuck them in and give them time.  

How can he be labelled as crap this early 

didn't say he was crap exactly, just for 5 million which is still a lot of money I was hoping for a lot more.

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Whilst I have been a little disappointed with his input so far it's really too early to judge him. He hasn't really had a lot of chances to score, he may be an excellent finisher just struggling for service. The only clear cut chance I can think of him having was at Barnsley and he scored.   

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9 hours ago, pillred said:

yes it's probably a bit soon to be saying it, but my opinion is, ducking already, and I hope more than you can ever know, I am wrong, famara diedeou looks the biggest waste of money I have ever seen, I am 61 and I reckon I'm faster over 10 yards than he is, disappointed does not even begin to cover it.

You're brave.  I share your concerns although do think he needs more time.

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He doesn't seem like the type of striker who will be your top scorer, brings others into play, thought he controlled and held the ball up well in some awkward situations yesterday. If he takes defenders out of play he's creating more room for Bobby or whoever, think we should be looking at his partner being the goal scorer. When strikers are going for £10m-£15m on this league if he gets 10 this season we'll have got decent value for money. 

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2 minutes ago, Rednwhiterob said:

You're brave.  I share your concerns although do think he needs more time.

gives me no pleasure saying it I can tell you. cant understand this time thing, if you or I change our place of work the boss doesn't say I don't mind if you are rubbish for the first month, football is what it is, he is not being asked to do anything he is not familiar with.

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6 minutes ago, pillred said:

gives me no pleasure saying it I can tell you. cant understand this time thing, if you or I change our place of work the boss doesn't say I don't mind if you are rubbish for the first month, football is what it is, he is not being asked to do anything he is not familiar with.

It's really not that simple. I bet you wouldn't be able to do your job to an equal standard if you were suddenly doing it in France, operating in your second language and expected to do it at a totally different pace.

 

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7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's really not that simple. I bet you wouldn't be able to do your job to an equal standard if you were suddenly doing it in France, operating in your second language and expected to do it at a totally different pace.

 

Yes and France is hardly a fine example of the fine game...is it?

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In all fairness we're not using him to his strengths, lumping long balls to his head and chest does us no favours, you watch the Prem and see how many teams that works for even with great, strong players like Lukaku receiving those passes. His strength is he's strong, big and can hold players off, if anything we should be playing the ball into his feet in the final third and making runs off of him, not using him as some kind of target post. If I was him I'd be pretty p***ed off after yesterday, he had Samba and Terry all over him and all he got was long ball after long ball which just isolated him further.

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2 hours ago, reddogkev said:

I thought he played a good game, and he was absolutely shattered when he came off.  I saw several nice touches and lay offs, and countless times holding the ball.

As for his price tag, It's not our money so it doesn't really matter, and £5 million isn't a lot these days, is it?  I'm confident that come the end of the season he would've scored approx. 15 goals, had a fair few assists, and given several defenders a torrid game or two.

As a few others have said, you can't begin to compare him to JK or Tammy, because they are not £5million strikers, they are £15 and £20million strikers respectively.

JK cost us £3m and Tammy £1m so the comparison is valid.

Diedhiou is unlucky to be following in their footsteps but at this stage looks like a poorer version of Dele Adebola. 

 

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