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BigTone

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53 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

 

Why is it people are turning this into "everybody hates us cyclists" You have. 

No I haven't and frankly am losing patience with the idiots who have. You're telling me that no other country has implemented laws on bikes without any proof. I've shown you they have. As for Europe I suggest you go and do your research as you may be surprised what you find.  I'm glad you don't play up front for City and miss the goal as often as you miss the point. Relegation would be a cert.

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13 minutes ago, BigTone said:

No I haven't and frankly am losing patience with the idiots who have. You're telling me that no other country has implemented laws on bikes without any proof. I've shown you they have. As for Europe I suggest you go and do your research as you may be surprised what you find.  I'm glad you don't play up front for City and miss the goal as often as you miss the point. Relegation would be a cert.

Forgive me if I'm wrong though but have you given an example of compulsory insurance for bikes? As far as I can see you have only given examples of plates, carrying ID and a copy of an optional course in NZ.  

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6 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Forgive me if I'm wrong though but have you given an example of compulsory insurance for bikes? As far as I can see you have only given examples of plates, carrying ID and a copy of an optional course in NZ.  

Go and do your own research instead of trying my patience.

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34 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

...that'll be a no then. What you are suggesting is simply an impractical waste of money. Nothing more, nothing less. 

Apologies but you Sir have no grasp on reality, nothing more, nothing less.

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1 hour ago, BigTone said:

No I haven't and frankly am losing patience with the idiots who have. You're telling me that no other country has implemented laws on bikes without any proof. I've shown you they have. As for Europe I suggest you go and do your research as you may be surprised what you find.  

I did not claim any of that and you are putting up links to entirely new points which are not in the post you insist people read.  Lot of European nations have laws on liability in favour of cyclists so no insurance. Switzerland had insurance for cyclists and binned it. Guess you wont be answering the questions I posed .

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4 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

I did not claim any of that and you are putting up links to entirely new points which are not in the post you insist people read.  Lot of European nations have laws on liability in favour of cyclists so no insurance. Switzerland had insurance for cyclists and binned it. Guess you wont be answering the questions I posed .

You have not answered anything I asked so why should I bother. Do your own research and be surprised what you might find.  I have !!

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37 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

And the point is ??

Charlie Alliston got 18 months in prison for being a complete dick on a bike.  His victims family get what exactly ?  This is the crux of the whole discussion, not whether he has kept himself fit and has a healthy heart or kept pressure off the NHS or any of the other shite arguments you are throwing up. Do you not understand this ?

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1 hour ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Obviously not my research but you suggested I find some information on cycling law in Europe. There it is.

There is nothing so go and look again. As a point I never said go and look only at Europe did I ? Are you able to string an argument together based on fact ?

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12 hours ago, BigTone said:

There is nothing so go and look again. As a point I never said go and look only at Europe did I ? Are you able to string an argument together based on fact ?

You asked for facts they are in the link. you asked for people to answer your questions and they are in the thread. you say you are not anti cycling but are not prepared to read others posts, wont answer questions angrily dismiss anything you do not like as irrelevant or ignore it, contradict your own posts, tell people they have no grasp on reality admit your ranting and are calling people in the thread idiots.

Calm down give it up people will start to worry about you if you are like this away from a forum.

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1 hour ago, Trueredsupporte said:

You asked for facts they are in the link. you asked for people to answer your questions and they are in the thread. you say you are not anti cycling but are not prepared to read others posts, wont answer questions angrily dismiss anything you do not like as irrelevant or ignore it, contradict your own posts, tell people they have no grasp on reality admit your ranting and are calling people in the thread idiots.

Calm down give it up people will start to worry about you if you are like this away from a forum.

Whatever, whatever but hey ho.

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Tone,

You started a thread about dangerous cycling and light sentencing in the wake of the Alliston case...

When Ichhapal Bhamra carried Tom Ridgway for 90 yds on his bonnet before crushing him into a tree, and was fined £35, where was your voice?

When Lee Sewell, speeding after a 14hr taxi stint fatally smashed Gary Glymond 120yrds off a crossing, and was fined £500, what did you say?

Where was your anger for four year old Esme Weir, killed while scooting along the pavement by a kerb-mounting van driver who was acquitted?

How about Clinton Pringle, killed by an inattentive driver who had been texting moments before impact. He was 3. Eight months, suspended.

If you really cared about safety, and this wasn't just a pop at cycling, you'd find plenty to speak about. Every day.

This driver just got a suspended sentence after jumping a red and severely disabling a child. Where did all those angry voices go?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/driver-left-schoolgirl-catastrophic-injuries-13648933

 

Or more importantly where was the Mail, Express, Sun, BBC, Sky etc ?? Why wasn't there a parliamentary review after these incidents?

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/sheffield-pensioner-who-caused-death-of-cyclist-avoids-jail-sentence-1-8663686

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/lorry-driver-avoids-jail-over-death-of-cyclist-after-widowers-plea-to-judge-a3228116.html

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/14224291.Suspended_sentence_for_Frinton_death_crash_hit_and_run_driver/?ref=arc

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/heartbroken-parents-neston-girl-esme-12786684

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Paddy31 said:

Tone,

You started a thread about dangerous cycling and light sentencing in the wake of the Alliston case...

When Ichhapal Bhamra carried Tom Ridgway for 90 yds on his bonnet before crushing him into a tree, and was fined £35, where was your voice?

When Lee Sewell, speeding after a 14hr taxi stint fatally smashed Gary Glymond 120yrds off a crossing, and was fined £500, what did you say?

Where was your anger for four year old Esme Weir, killed while scooting along the pavement by a kerb-mounting van driver who was acquitted?

How about Clinton Pringle, killed by an inattentive driver who had been texting moments before impact. He was 3. Eight months, suspended.

If you really cared about safety, and this wasn't just a pop at cycling, you'd find plenty to speak about. Every day.

This driver just got a suspended sentence after jumping a red and severely disabling a child. Where did all those angry voices go?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/driver-left-schoolgirl-catastrophic-injuries-13648933

 

Or more importantly where was the Mail, Express, Sun, BBC, Sky etc ?? Why wasn't there a parliamentary review after these incidents?

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/sheffield-pensioner-who-caused-death-of-cyclist-avoids-jail-sentence-1-8663686

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/lorry-driver-avoids-jail-over-death-of-cyclist-after-widowers-plea-to-judge-a3228116.html

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/14224291.Suspended_sentence_for_Frinton_death_crash_hit_and_run_driver/?ref=arc

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/heartbroken-parents-neston-girl-esme-12786684

 

 

 

The difference is there is a mechanism in place to deal with motorists. Any motorist guilty of such misdemeanours should feel the full weight of the law and rightly so. I would also add that IMO our legal system is pretty poor in some of the lenient punishments handed out. 

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11 hours ago, Paddy31 said:

Tone,

You started a thread about dangerous cycling and light sentencing in the wake of the Alliston case...

When Ichhapal Bhamra carried Tom Ridgway for 90 yds on his bonnet before crushing him into a tree, and was fined £35, where was your voice?

When Lee Sewell, speeding after a 14hr taxi stint fatally smashed Gary Glymond 120yrds off a crossing, and was fined £500, what did you say?

Where was your anger for four year old Esme Weir, killed while scooting along the pavement by a kerb-mounting van driver who was acquitted?

How about Clinton Pringle, killed by an inattentive driver who had been texting moments before impact. He was 3. Eight months, suspended.

If you really cared about safety, and this wasn't just a pop at cycling, you'd find plenty to speak about. Every day.

This driver just got a suspended sentence after jumping a red and severely disabling a child. Where did all those angry voices go?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/driver-left-schoolgirl-catastrophic-injuries-13648933

 

Or more importantly where was the Mail, Express, Sun, BBC, Sky etc ?? Why wasn't there a parliamentary review after these incidents?

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/sheffield-pensioner-who-caused-death-of-cyclist-avoids-jail-sentence-1-8663686

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/lorry-driver-avoids-jail-over-death-of-cyclist-after-widowers-plea-to-judge-a3228116.html

http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/14224291.Suspended_sentence_for_Frinton_death_crash_hit_and_run_driver/?ref=arc

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/heartbroken-parents-neston-girl-esme-12786684

 

 

 

that's a failure in the law, you can't compare it, as no such law is in place for dangerous cycling

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What's wrong with expecting responsible riding for those who cycle and responsible driving for those who use a vehicle together with consideration for those around them be it on the road or pavement? It's a very small minority on either side who appear to have the "I don't care a **** about anyone else" mentality that spoil it and possibly endanger others.

As Big Tone has said, not many are to blame but certainly a method by which you could identify a cyclist involved in an accident but has ridden off, as you could a motorist involved in an accident but has driven off can hardly be taken as a loss of human rights? Those cyclists who do ride inconsiderately take away all the goodwill shown to them when they complain about being driven off the roads by motorists.

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3 hours ago, BigTone said:

The difference is there is a mechanism in place to deal with motorists. Any motorist guilty of such misdemeanours should feel the full weight of the law and rightly so. I would also add that IMO our legal system is pretty poor in some of the lenient punishments handed out. 

You swerved the posters point.

No pun was intended.

No passion in your post.

No indignation.

No empathy.

The denominator is they are cyclists.

You are anti cycling.

 

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14 minutes ago, Sixtyseconds said:

You swerved the posters point.  -  No I didn't

No pun was intended.  -  What pun ?

No passion in your post.  - I must try harder

No indignation.  - I must try harder

No empathy.  - I must try harder

The denominator is they are cyclists.  - How so ?

You are anti cycling.  - No I'm not

 

You back doing Power Point presentations again ?

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2 hours ago, Sixtyseconds said:

The clever poster posed a test.

Your posts Tone have not gone into a jesus based rage about cyclists being killed and maimed.

Because safety is not what this is about for you.

Your rants are anti cycling.

No they are not. My rants are about the laws (or lack of) that govern them. What test by the way ?

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6 hours ago, Monkeh said:

that's a failure in the law, you can't compare it, as no such law is in place for dangerous cycling

 

7 hours ago, BigTone said:

The difference is there is a mechanism in place to deal with motorists. Any motorist guilty of such misdemeanours should feel the full weight of the law and rightly so. I would also add that IMO our legal system is pretty poor in some of the lenient punishments handed out. 

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended by the Road Traffic Act 1991) it is an offence to ride recklessly on a road or in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner. These offences are covered by sections 28 – 30 of the Act.

Alliston is serving 14 months. Look at the penalties the drivers in the cases above received.

Enforcement of the current laws is all that is needed.

 

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28 minutes ago, Paddy31 said:

 

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended by the Road Traffic Act 1991) it is an offence to ride recklessly on a road or in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner. These offences are covered by sections 28 – 30 of the Act.

Alliston is serving 14 months. Look at the penalties the drivers in the cases above received.

Enforcement of the current laws is all that is needed.

 

He was convicted on an ancient law dragged up for "wanton and furious driving" because there is no specific law covering cyclists. The law needs updating and the Government seems to realise this.

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30 minutes ago, Paddy31 said:

 

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended by the Road Traffic Act 1991) it is an offence to ride recklessly on a road or in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner. These offences are covered by sections 28 – 30 of the Act.

Alliston is serving 14 months. Look at the penalties the drivers in the cases above received.

Enforcement of the current laws is all that is needed.

 

Most of the drivers should have got a lot more.

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