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redmycolour

Steve Cotterell

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5 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

SC saved the club from a second relegation in his first few months and then took the club onto our only league win in 60 years, with a record 99 points , won the Football league trophy and the LMA manager of the season. The rather hilarious assertion he spent crazy money in some way to deflect any credit seems to forget he had to sell his main striker  Baldock for £2M with the season underway . I have seen a number great City sides but I have never seen one with the collective will and belief of that group players, they just pushed past teams, even if they were under pressure, they pulled together in a way I have never seen. The football was wonderful, fast paced and exciting. 

It went wrong, and it went wrong for reasons often discussed on here, with some behind the scenes issues and a lack of clarity about who said what and where. However, it was quite clear that SC felt that with a few high quality additions, that squad was capable of a springboard of a double promotion. Others had done it. But it needed quality. Grey or Gayle, McGuire and an un named central midfield player. It did not happen, the club did not sign the targets identified ( you cannot discount the quality) and the battle plan fell apart amid off the field recriminations, blame and loss of faith between SC and club and vice versa.  

SC was very impressive. This from someone who finds him impossibly arrogant, was surprised at his appointment, and felt he had lost the plot when he was fired. But I cannot rewrite a selective history, what he did in such a short space of time with relative means will remain forever. 

It is what I am sure Huddersfield fans think of Wagner and Brighton fans of Houghton. There are occasions when the right manager, right experience, right support can achieve notable success . 

Did SC reach his level, no, probably not, but the club collectively totally wasted all the momentum , good feeling and impetus of an exceptional performance. That was the time SL really did miss a chance to invest in a few good players of the right type, and as the named three have shown, they all did their job, and increased their value. 

Why is SC not working? he maybe does not need to right now, maybe waiting for the right project again I cannot think for one moment he would be looking at Northampton town . 

Brilliant post. My thoughts also. 

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6 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

SC saved the club from a second relegation in his first few months and then took the club onto our only league win in 60 years, with a record 99 points , won the Football league trophy and the LMA manager of the season. The rather hilarious assertion he spent crazy money in some way to deflect any credit seems to forget he had to sell his main striker  Baldock for £2M with the season underway . I have seen a number great City sides but I have never seen one with the collective will and belief of that group players, they just pushed past teams, even if they were under pressure, they pulled together in a way I have never seen. The football was wonderful, fast paced and exciting. 

It went wrong, and it went wrong for reasons often discussed on here, with some behind the scenes issues and a lack of clarity about who said what and where. However, it was quite clear that SC felt that with a few high quality additions, that squad was capable of a springboard of a double promotion. Others had done it. But it needed quality. Grey or Gayle, McGuire and an un named central midfield player. It did not happen, the club did not sign the targets identified ( you cannot discount the quality) and the battle plan fell apart amid off the field recriminations, blame and loss of faith between SC and club and vice versa.  

SC was very impressive. This from someone who finds him impossibly arrogant, was surprised at his appointment, and felt he had lost the plot when he was fired. But I cannot rewrite a selective history, what he did in such a short space of time with relative means will remain forever. 

It is what I am sure Huddersfield fans think of Wagner and Brighton fans of Houghton. There are occasions when the right manager, right experience, right support can achieve notable success . 

Did SC reach his level, no, probably not, but the club collectively totally wasted all the momentum , good feeling and impetus of an exceptional performance. That was the time SL really did miss a chance to invest in a few good players of the right type, and as the named three have shown, they all did their job, and increased their value. 

Why is SC not working? he maybe does not need to right now, maybe waiting for the right project again I cannot think for one moment he would be looking at Northampton town . 

It could be argued that with a reduced capacity we didn't have the means to invest heavily without falling foul of the League's FFP rules .

 I believe Cotts surprised the club's directors by getting us promoted so soon .

Iam certain that they weren't ready for it . 

 

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41 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

It could be argued that with a reduced capacity we didn't have the means to invest heavily without falling foul of the League's FFP rules .

 I believe Cotts surprised the club's directors by getting us promoted so soon .

Iam certain that they weren't ready for it . 

 

:clap:

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47 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

It could be argued that with a reduced capacity we didn't have the means to invest heavily without falling foul of the League's FFP rules .

 I believe Cotts surprised the club's directors by getting us promoted so soon .

Iam certain that they weren't ready for it . 

 

Agree, I think the 'real' target was a steady top 8 finish.

Promotion obviously a nice surprise but think we wanted it with the stadium complete.

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7 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

SC saved the club from a second relegation in his first few months and then took the club onto our only league win in 60 years, with a record 99 points , won the Football league trophy and the LMA manager of the season. The rather hilarious assertion he spent crazy money in some way to deflect any credit seems to forget he had to sell his main striker  Baldock for £2M with the season underway . I have seen a number great City sides but I have never seen one with the collective will and belief of that group players, they just pushed past teams, even if they were under pressure, they pulled together in a way I have never seen. The football was wonderful, fast paced and exciting. 

It went wrong, and it went wrong for reasons often discussed on here, with some behind the scenes issues and a lack of clarity about who said what and where. However, it was quite clear that SC felt that with a few high quality additions, that squad was capable of a springboard of a double promotion. Others had done it. But it needed quality. Grey or Gayle, McGuire and an un named central midfield player. It did not happen, the club did not sign the targets identified ( you cannot discount the quality) and the battle plan fell apart amid off the field recriminations, blame and loss of faith between SC and club and vice versa.  

SC was very impressive. This from someone who finds him impossibly arrogant, was surprised at his appointment, and felt he had lost the plot when he was fired. But I cannot rewrite a selective history, what he did in such a short space of time with relative means will remain forever. 

It is what I am sure Huddersfield fans think of Wagner and Brighton fans of Houghton. There are occasions when the right manager, right experience, right support can achieve notable success . 

Did SC reach his level, no, probably not, but the club collectively totally wasted all the momentum , good feeling and impetus of an exceptional performance. That was the time SL really did miss a chance to invest in a few good players of the right type, and as the named three have shown, they all did their job, and increased their value. 

Why is SC not working? he maybe does not need to right now, maybe waiting for the right project again I cannot think for one moment he would be looking at Northampton town . 

Good post. Re: the highlighted bit, as you are clearly well-informed, you may want to consider why it was he lost the plot towards the end in fairly spectacular style...

In regard to other jobs...as I understand it he has had plenty of interest/offers from L1 and L2 but he does consider that he can still do a job in the C'ship and so that is what he is aiming for. There was interest from Preston when Grayson departed but that obviously didn't happen for whatever reason.

47 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

It could be argued that with a reduced capacity we didn't have the means to invest heavily without falling foul of the League's FFP rules .

 I believe Cotts surprised the club's directors by getting us promoted so soon .

Iam certain that they weren't ready for it . 

Disagree. After the investment and quality of player we brought to the club in the summer of 2014, it was clear the ambition was promotion and that it was likely. Not being ready for promotion when you're Bristol City in L1 is a pathetic excuse, if it were true.

Of course the money was there in the summer of 2014 too; see the massive bids for Gray and Gayle. The point is the deals for Gray and allegedly Maguire were agreed earlier in the summer at much reduced fees/wages.

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Cotts was brilliant for us, but his weakness was rigidly sticking to the same system with no plan 'B' when it obviously wasn't working. We were getting caught on the break all the time with the wing backs missing, Championship teams had sussed us out. If he'd switched to a back four results would have improved even with the limited squad we had, as happened when he left. Such a shame, if he'd survived that season and had another window with Mark Ashton on board (who'd been involved in the recruitment for our L1-winning team) I'm sure we'd have been top half at least for the following season.

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On 04/09/2017 at 20:52, Sweeneys Penalties said:

wouldn';t have Danny Wilson at the top. Jordan's side played the most expressive, joyful football I've seen played at Ashton Gate in my lifetime. AD did a superb job (obviously) as did Terry Cooper who genuinely appeared to make a silk purse from a sou's ear. Those three are/were a country mile better than the rest

Wilson oversaw a shambolic drinking culture, who can forget the posts on here reporting players spewing and pissing in doorways, drunkenness in town, burning money, the ramifications of the drinking culture at the club carried on after he left and culminated in players going to prison.

I'll go with Jordan's promotion side as the most enjoyable season I've ever had following City, I went to every game except one that season, it was pure joy to watch.  Watching Dicks get us into the first division and seeing Man U, Arsenal, Leeds etc at the Gate ensures his place in my City Managers hall of fame, Cooper is in there as well, the bloke saved us from obscurity.

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8 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Wilson oversaw a shambolic drinking culture, who can forget the posts on here reporting players spewing and pissing in doorways, drunkenness in town, burning money, the ramifications of the drinking culture at the club carried on after he left and culminated in players going to prison.

I'll go with Jordan's promotion side as the most enjoyable season I've ever had following City, I went to every game except one that season, it was pure joy to watch.  Watching Dicks get us into the first division and seeing Man U, Arsenal, Leeds etc at the Gate ensures his place in my City Managers hall of fame, Cooper is in there as well, the bloke saved us from obscurity.

Completely agree.   Wilson had everything needed to succeed and managed to blow it year after year, while fooling us into thinking we were getting somewhere because the football was entertaining.  The more I think about his time with us, the more I think that was when we had a real chance to go forward, and he managed to completely mess it up, and the angrier I get.

I also look back on 1989-90 as one of the best seasons of all, only spoilt by that dreadful defeat at Trumpton in the penultimate match and the resulting outcome of finishing second.  And for that reason, the 2015 promotion season has to rate as the best in my lifetime, if only because we won the league in such style.  Who could beat finishing with an 8-2 victory!

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39 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Good post. Re: the highlighted bit, as you are clearly well-informed, you may want to consider why it was he lost the plot towards the end in fairly spectacular style...

 

:clapping:

Why indeed. Given what he achieved, and the joy his brand of football brought to City fans, knowing that the club were actively looking to replace him even before he was sacked, it's difficult to imagine a scenario where he could have been more badly treated.

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On 8/31/2017 at 18:52, AppyDAZE said:

Danny (one trophy, and that the Mickey Mouse, in 4 years) Wilson above Cotterill?  .. come on

Danny Wilson was my fav too, good times watching footie under him,

1 Wilson

2 Johnson

3 Ward

4 Cotts

5 Cooper

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On 9/2/2017 at 12:38, Portland Bill said:

Andre Gray, just sold on for £18 million, Dwight Gayle, now a Premier League striker,  Harry Maguire, now a Premier league defender,, sold by Hull for £15 million. 

Players ive absolutely no doubt that would have taken us to the next level. Bit like Engvill has!!

Also, I agree, he's a very good tv pundit, he knows exactly what's he's talking about....................

all of who didn't want to sign for us, we had the bids accepted

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48 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

Cotts was brilliant for us, but his weakness was rigidly sticking to the same system with no plan 'B' when it obviously wasn't working. We were getting caught on the break all the time with the wing backs missing, Championship teams had sussed us out. If he'd switched to a back four results would have improved even with the limited squad we had, as happened when he left. Such a shame, if he'd survived that season and had another window with Mark Ashton on board (who'd been involved in the recruitment for our L1-winning team) I'm sure we'd have been top half at least for the following season.

Would not have happened. SC had no interest in having MA 'on board'. No coincidence that MA hastily joined the club full-time days after SC left. Part of the whole problem of the summer of 2014 was that SC wasn't being allowed to sign who he wanted to.

I'm not entirely sure what MA's influence was in summer 2013. All we've been told by the club is something vague like "he put the systems in place to help achieve the successful summer recruitment in our promotion season". I'm guessing he was just the admin guy at this point and that all (certainly most of) the signings we made were identified by SC. We know that Freeman was definitely a signing SC wanted, for example.

Now, I suspect MA has a much bigger influence in who we sign.

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1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

all of who didn't want to sign for us, we had the bids accepted

The (alleged) story is actually that bids were agreed, personal terms too, all before the end of May (the benefits of getting promoted so early and in impressive fashion, the players wanted to come here). Cotts went on his holiday, expecting to welcome the new players on his return until someone at the club decided we could get a better deal and attempted to negotiate Hull and Brentford down from the already agreed prices. This pissed both clubs off who in return raised the price of both players and although we did put in a crazy money bid for Grey later in the window, by then Burnley were in, offering him £15k extra per week than we had agreed earlier in the summer. IIRC the chief negotiator exited his post way before Cotts. 

Who knows what would have happened if that hadn't played out that way. A less sulky Cotts would maybe have achieved better results, especially with two high end Championship players put into an already highly confident side. The unnamed midfielder from @Psychopomp's post may have been encouraged to sign given Grey & Maguire's arrival. I suspect Kodjia wouldn't have been signed however but I think a mid table finish would have been achieved (but Grey would have been sold the following Summer instead of Kodjia). 

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On 02/09/2017 at 22:47, MarcusX said:

So why didn't they go through?

No need to ask. You know the BS you'll read in return.

"Lovely Stevie Cotts did the deals then went on holiday when big, bad Lansdown the Evil King descended from his Channel Islands  castle and said 'I know I spend an absolute fortune on this club and am prepared to front huge sums of transfer fees on these players and have hitherto backed every signing that Cotts has made, but now I'm just going to randomly intervene to screw things up for the club because I enjoy money hemorrhaging from my pocket'."

That's the fairy tale you'll get from some *cough* experts. 

Reality: players didn't want to come; FFP meant we couldn’t match their wage demands.

One class forward wouldn't have saved Cotts's Championship season however.  We were lacking in quality for this level all over the pitch.  No point having a diamond up front if you never get the ball to him.

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^^^^^^^   Rubbish says the man who predicted that Cotterill would get us relegated to L2 when he arrived!  :rofl2br:

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1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

No need to ask. You know the BS you'll read in return.

"Lovely Stevie Cotts did the deals then went on holiday when big, bad Lansdown the Evil King descended from his Channel Islands  castle and said 'I know I spend an absolute fortune on this club and am prepared to front huge sums of transfer fees on these players and have hitherto backed every signing that Cotts has made, but now I'm just going to randomly intervene to screw things up for the club because I enjoy money hemorrhaging from my pocket'."

That's the fairy tale you'll get from some *cough* experts. 

Reality: players didn't want to come; FFP meant we couldn’t match their wage demands.

One class forward wouldn't have saved Cotts's Championship season however.  We were lacking in quality for this level all over the pitch.  No point having a diamond up front if you never get the ball to him.

Actually, nobody has been stupid enough to suggest that SL deliberately screwed things up.

20 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

^^^^^^^   Rubbish says the man who predicted that Cotterill would get us relegated to L2 when he arrived!  :rofl2br:

That's irrelevant to the "mystery" of the failed transfers.

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6 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Wilson oversaw a shambolic drinking culture, who can forget the posts on here reporting players spewing and pissing in doorways, drunkenness in town, burning money, the ramifications of the drinking culture at the club carried on after he left and culminated in players going to prison.

I'll go with Jordan's promotion side as the most enjoyable season I've ever had following City, I went to every game except one that season, it was pure joy to watch.  Watching Dicks get us into the first division and seeing Man U, Arsenal, Leeds etc at the Gate ensures his place in my City Managers hall of fame, Cooper is in there as well, the bloke saved us from obscurity.

Totally agree with this post, I will add that for all the problems ( drinking etc! ) off the pitch, Danny Wilson had us playing some fantastic pass and move football. It really was a joy to watch.

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8 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

It could be argued that with a reduced capacity we didn't have the means to invest heavily without falling foul of the League's FFP rules .

 I believe Cotts surprised the club's directors by getting us promoted so soon .

Iam certain that they weren't ready for it . 

 

I know for certain  that the club expected promotion before that season started 

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5 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

I know for certain  that the club expected promotion before that season started 

Interesting. What do the club expect this season?

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22 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

SC saved the club from a second relegation in his first few months and then took the club onto our only league win in 60 years, with a record 99 points , won the Football league trophy and the LMA manager of the season. The rather hilarious assertion he spent crazy money in some way to deflect any credit seems to forget he had to sell his main striker  Baldock for £2M with the season underway . I have seen a number great City sides but I have never seen one with the collective will and belief of that group players, they just pushed past teams, even if they were under pressure, they pulled together in a way I have never seen. The football was wonderful, fast paced and exciting. 

It went wrong, and it went wrong for reasons often discussed on here, with some behind the scenes issues and a lack of clarity about who said what and where. However, it was quite clear that SC felt that with a few high quality additions, that squad was capable of a springboard of a double promotion. Others had done it. But it needed quality. Grey or Gayle, McGuire and an un named central midfield player. It did not happen, the club did not sign the targets identified ( you cannot discount the quality) and the battle plan fell apart amid off the field recriminations, blame and loss of faith between SC and club and vice versa.  

SC was very impressive. This from someone who finds him impossibly arrogant, was surprised at his appointment, and felt he had lost the plot when he was fired. But I cannot rewrite a selective history, what he did in such a short space of time with relative means will remain forever. 

It is what I am sure Huddersfield fans think of Wagner and Brighton fans of Houghton. There are occasions when the right manager, right experience, right support can achieve notable success . 

Did SC reach his level, no, probably not, but the club collectively totally wasted all the momentum , good feeling and impetus of an exceptional performance. That was the time SL really did miss a chance to invest in a few good players of the right type, and as the named three have shown, they all did their job, and increased their value. 

Why is SC not working? he maybe does not need to right now, maybe waiting for the right project again I cannot think for one moment he would be looking at Northampton town . 

:clap:

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23 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

SC saved the club from a second relegation in his first few months and then took the club onto our only league win in 60 years, with a record 99 points , won the Football league trophy and the LMA manager of the season. The rather hilarious assertion he spent crazy money in some way to deflect any credit seems to forget he had to sell his main striker  Baldock for £2M with the season underway . I have seen a number great City sides but I have never seen one with the collective will and belief of that group players, they just pushed past teams, even if they were under pressure, they pulled together in a way I have never seen. The football was wonderful, fast paced and exciting. 

It went wrong, and it went wrong for reasons often discussed on here, with some behind the scenes issues and a lack of clarity about who said what and where. However, it was quite clear that SC felt that with a few high quality additions, that squad was capable of a springboard of a double promotion. Others had done it. But it needed quality. Grey or Gayle, McGuire and an un named central midfield player. It did not happen, the club did not sign the targets identified ( you cannot discount the quality) and the battle plan fell apart amid off the field recriminations, blame and loss of faith between SC and club and vice versa.  

SC was very impressive. This from someone who finds him impossibly arrogant, was surprised at his appointment, and felt he had lost the plot when he was fired. But I cannot rewrite a selective history, what he did in such a short space of time with relative means will remain forever. 

It is what I am sure Huddersfield fans think of Wagner and Brighton fans of Houghton. There are occasions when the right manager, right experience, right support can achieve notable success . 

Did SC reach his level, no, probably not, but the club collectively totally wasted all the momentum , good feeling and impetus of an exceptional performance. That was the time SL really did miss a chance to invest in a few good players of the right type, and as the named three have shown, they all did their job, and increased their value. 

Why is SC not working? he maybe does not need to right now, maybe waiting for the right project again I cannot think for one moment he would be looking at Northampton town . 

Excellent post.

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10 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Interesting. What do the club expect this season?

Judging by what was acceptable from the manager last season, I would imagine the bar has been set quite low.

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On ‎06‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 22:16, Nogbad the Bad said:

Interesting. What do the club expect this season?

 

On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 07:44, Psychopomp said:

I do not know. It was specific to that season and before it started. 

 

On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 08:34, NickJ said:

Judging by what was acceptable from the manager last season, I would imagine the bar has been set quite low.

SL stated on Radio Bristol on the opening day that he expected progress from last season and for us not to be in a relegation fight basically. Sort of comfortable midtable was the impression I got and he said "anything higher would be a bonus".

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Progression each season is what we're trying to achieve . If you stand still in the Championship you go backwards . On and off the pitch raising the bar 

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18 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

How do you know for certain , Psychopomp ? 

Because I was told by someone who would know without any question. 

Edited by Psychopomp

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