Concourse seating (lack of)

[Dollymarie]

25 minutes ago, Fodbarmyarmy said:

A work colleague said to me the other day that iho we missed a trick where we could have screwed the old williams seats on the wall all the way around ...apparently they have some in a pub somewhere and they look real good....

I’ve got two in my garden that I had bolted onto a base and they fold up just fine  

[London expats]

13 minutes ago, harrys said:

You can be very rude at times, it seems quite obvious and logical to me that folded seating would work absolutely fine along the back wall but if the club are unwilling to do this they make the usual and ridiculous excuse of H&S

Fault must lie with poor planning and design in the 1st place,  However just to keep ignoring the issue on H/S grounds with what appears to be no importance to find a solution is a disgrace , Disabled and elderly supporters deserve better in this day and age.

Somehow like the lighting issues and cold hand dryers despite all the good work that has been done some issues continue to be ignored..

Has the club even discussed folding seats with the SAG !!

[Tipps69]

32 minutes ago, London expats said:

Fault must lie with poor planning and design in the 1st place,  However just to keep ignoring the issue on H/S grounds with what appears to be no importance to find a solution is a disgrace , Disabled and elderly supporters deserve better in this day and age.

Somehow like the lighting issues and cold hand dryers despite all the good work that has been done some issues continue to be ignored..

Has the club even discussed folding seats with the SAG !!

So the club is a disgrace & have done nothing about these issues but then you ask if they’ve discussed it with the SAG, so you’re quick enough to blame the club without actually knowing what they have or haven’t done, seems a little harsh to go throwing accusations about without actually knowing what has or hasn’t gone on behind the scenes but then I guess that doesn’t fit in with finding someone to blame, does it?

I find it mind boggling that after all the money that has been spent on doing what has been done to give us first class facilities to now watch our club in, that people believe the club now wouldn’t do something that may enhance the experience further for our supporters just because they can’t be bothered or because of cost!!

Why is it so hard to believe that there are issues with doing what you’d like & it’s just not as easy as bolting some seats, benches or shelves to the walls!

But shame on the club & SL!!

 

 

[Rich]

5 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

So the club is a disgrace & have done nothing about these issues but then you ask if they’ve discussed it with the SAG, so you’re quick enough to blame the club without actually knowing what they have or haven’t done, seems a little harsh to go throwing accusations about without actually knowing what has or hasn’t gone on behind the scenes but then I guess that doesn’t fit in with finding someone to blame, does it?

I find it mind boggling that after all the money that has been spent on doing what has been done to give us first class facilities to now watch our club in, that people believe the club now wouldn’t do something that may enhance the experience further for our supporters just because they can’t be bothered or because of cost!!

Why is it so hard to believe that there are issues with doing what you’d like & it’s just not as easy as bolting some seats, benches or shelves to the walls!

But shame on the club & SL!!

 

 

Hang on a minute, he didn't say the club are a disgrace, he said "what appears to be no importance to find a solution is a disgrace". Major difference. I agree with him, they like to put forward all things to increase income (nothing wrong with that) but it does appear that they try less hard if things are "not for profit". And, it's not really a question of blame the club, which according to you can do no wrong, it's a question of addressing some outstanding issues. And it is as easy as bolting some seats to the walls, they're available, are fire retardant, do not block the gangways and, this is the important thing, would help some needy people. Fine, if you don't see the need to help people that need it, that's your choice, let others get on with it.

 

[Rich]

8 hours ago, Monkeh said:

Some are not excluded they chose not to use the new facilities there is a major difference 

the cart is moved while the game is on mate it isn't abandoned, it's there when i enter the dolman but its gone when I leave the game so it's moved, you fix down seats they can't be moved and cause a permanent obstruction so its cover by Marks original post  

Seats are not happened for valid and well documented reasons and no amount of you crying to the forum or throwing our your toys will change this

It's not the club you need to convince they are on board its SAG 

 

Sorry "mate" people are excluded. They might choose not to use the facilities for certain reasons, mostly due to mobility, so if they are not able to sit and enjoy a drink or something to eat within the concourse areas, like you or me, then they are excluded from those areas.

It would appear that you haven't understood information on the type of seats referred to. they don't cause an obstruction and don't take up floor space.

As for the cart, if there were an emergency situation prior to the match, the cart would be a congestion causing obstacle, regardless of whether it was moveable. What I'm saying is that, if there's room to take floor space for the cart during this period, then it's because the club requested it, probably to sell more goods. There would have been sufficient space for a dozen or so removable seats in the same area, which the club (Mark) has said that they were thinking about, so, why choose to go for the make a profit route, instead of, provide a service/extra facility for it's customers?

As has been explained in previous posts, the SAGs are an advisory group only. If something meets building regs/planning law, then they can't do anything about it, other venues have done it, so it can be done at Ashton Gate, if the desire is there.  

[Rich]

7 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

I’ve got two in my garden that I had bolted onto a base and they fold up just fine  

I have two in my garage, I want to put them on the back wall of the garage, under cover so that I can look over the garden. My wife, who chairs the Safety Advisory Group for  this part of Knowle, has so far resisted my plans by sighting H&S reasons, she says it would be bad for my health and safety. 

[Tipps69]

48 minutes ago, Rich said:

Hang on a minute, he didn't say the club are a disgrace, he said "what appears to be no importance to find a solution is a disgrace". Major difference. I agree with him, they like to put forward all things to increase income (nothing wrong with that) but it does appear that they try less hard if things are "not for profit". And, it's not really a question of blame the club, which according to you can do no wrong, it's a question of addressing some outstanding issues. And it is as easy as bolting some seats to the walls, they're available, are fire retardant, do not block the gangways and, this is the important thing, would help some needy people. Fine, if you don't see the need to help people that need it, that's your choice, let others get on with it.

 

The reasoning has been explained to yourself & everyone else, Mark Kelly has even taken the time & effort to reply to your questions on this thread yet still it’s not enough.

And before you go nailing me as someone who doesn’t care about others, I’m the one who no longer attends games because I’m physically unable too & I accept that I’m in the minority & don’t expect money to be thrown at ME so I can attend games. The club is bigger than any one person & they are doing their best to please as many people as they possibly can.

[Rich]

4 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

The reasoning has been explained to yourself & everyone else, Mark Kelly has even taken the time & effort to reply to your questions on this thread yet still it’s not enough.

And before you go nailing me as someone who doesn’t care about others, I’m the one who no longer attends games because I’m physically unable too & I accept that I’m in the minority & don’t expect money to be thrown at ME so I can attend games. The club is bigger than any one person & they are doing their best to please as many people as they possibly can.

Reasons have been stated as you say. They are contradicted by further statements ie: we can't have seating due to restrictions from the SAGs, then, we are considering removable seating for next season.                                                                                      

Also, those reasons have been found to be questionable to say the least, as has been shown with other clubs being allowed seating and an actual directive from the accessible stadia guide, to provide seating for ambulant disabled. Mark Kelly did not reply to my question on the Q&A section, even though he was reading that section regularly, I didn't know why he wouldn't answer the question, that's why I put it on the main site. He did reply once more people had joined in the debate on the main site, and, after the FANs meeting he marked it as answered.  

[Mad Cyril]

Genuine question...even if 10, 20 or 50 folding seats were put in, how would these be available for those who need them most?

Every game at home I see able people nip in the disabled loo. At away games i see old people unable to use the seat allocated on their ticket and told to f off down the front by someone there first.

Bit like disabled parking slots at a supermarket, all that would happen is some knuckle dragger will claim a right to use them as they were there first?

[phantom]

12 hours ago, Rich said:

..... with other clubs being allowed seating 

@Rich which other clubs have seating in their concourse area?

I am wracking my brains and can't think of any

[WhistleHappy]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 00:17, Threshing Red said:

In Melbourne stadium you can get british fish & chips and you can sit down and enjoy it too!

Blimey Deliveoo offer a better service than I thought... all the way to Oz with a COD LOT on a bike... mind you I'd be amazed if the chips aren't cold when they get there & the poor old student cyclist must be bloody knackered , fair play!  

(why can't we get Aussie curry kangaroo by DeliveRoo over here then?) 

[Spoons]

5 hours ago, phantom said:

@Rich which other clubs have seating in their concourse area?

I am wracking my brains and can't think of any

None! 

[T R]

24 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

Blimey Deliveoo offer a better service than I thought... all the way to Oz with a COD LOT on a bike... mind you I'd be amazed if the chips aren't cold when they get there & the poor old student cyclist must be bloody knackered , fair play!  

(why can't we get Aussie curry kangaroo by DeliveRoo over here then?) 

Must be alot of kangeroos in north wales they do a service over there. Can't see our security letting this lot in..

[WhistleHappy]

1 hour ago, Threshing Red said:

Must be alot of kangeroos in north wales they do a service over there. Can't see our security letting this lot in..

Extremely busy with the popular Deliveroo 'lamb roasts at home' service at weekends I hear.  

[Rich]

10 hours ago, phantom said:

@Rich which other clubs have seating in their concourse area?

I am wracking my brains and can't think of any

I know Wembley, Liverpool, Barnet, but that's not really the issue, the issue is, do clubs want to provide this facility or, can they provide this facility. In the latter case, our ground has wide open concourse areas because they are used for events, so we could provide those facilities, other grounds might not have the benefit of that extra space. Cue the list of spacious concourses around the country but, is there a desire to install seating in those areas by the clubs, or can they get away without providing it.

http://www.kssgroup.com/projects/anfield-stadium-concourses/

[Rich]

13 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

Genuine question...even if 10, 20 or 50 folding seats were put in, how would these be available for those who need them most?

Every game at home I see able people nip in the disabled loo. At away games i see old people unable to use the seat allocated on their ticket and told to f off down the front by someone there first.

Bit like disabled parking slots at a supermarket, all that would happen is some knuckle dragger will claim a right to use them as they were there first?

I'm sure that will happen in some cases. Hopefully, there won't be restricted movement as in the stands, with stewards that couldn't give a toss and don't want the hassle. I think signage stating priority seating area and the fact the lads would most probably want to stand near the bars would restrict this type of behaviour.

[phantom]

13 hours ago, Rich said:

I know Wembley, Liverpool, Barnet, but that's not really the issue, the issue is, do clubs want to provide this facility or, can they provide this facility.

On the basis that NO clubs appear to have this "seating area" I would say clubs don't want (or even need) to provide seats?

 

There is no seating in the concourse area at Wembley???

The Liverpool area with tables are different as these areas that aren't the actual concourse

As for Barnet that place is so small and narrow it's only a couple of paces from the entrance to the pitch

The only bar they have is away from the pitch

 

The more I think about it the more I wonder why anyone would actually want to sit down?

Before the game there are areas where people can sit (Sports bar / SC&T bar) half time can't imagine anyone would want to walk down to the concourse from their seat just to sit down

[Rich]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 10:13, phantom said:

On the basis that NO clubs appear to have this "seating area" I would say clubs don't want (or even need) to provide seats?

 

There is no seating in the concourse area at Wembley???

The Liverpool area with tables are different as these areas that aren't the actual concourse

As for Barnet that place is so small and narrow it's only a couple of paces from the entrance to the pitch

The only bar they have is away from the pitch

 

The more I think about it the more I wonder why anyone would actually want to sit down?

Before the game there are areas where people can sit (Sports bar / SC&T bar) half time can't imagine anyone would want to walk down to the concourse from their seat just to sit down

Sorry for late reply. Fortunately you are not the person deciding who gets to sit or not. You would appear to have not read this topic, or not digested the numerous examples of why people might need a seat, or you have chosen to ignore those examples as they don't suit your opinion of what peoples need actually are.

Below are two photos of areas within Wembley which are concourse areas, ie: areas prior to going into the stadium seating, admittedly of club Wembley, I can't be arsed to go searching for hours to prove a point, these were found in seconds. Another poster is adamant there are seats provided in the concourses but, you supply a picture where there were no seats, so it can't be true.

http://www.wembleystadium.com/~/media/Images/WNSL/Wembley Stadium/ClubWembley/2 column image 659 x 371/Club Wembley concourse image.ashx

http://www.groundhopping.se/res/Wembley/insideclubwembley.jpg

The link to Liverpool's site showing their concourse areas does show seating in one specific place, you either didn't see it, or chose to ignore it.

As for Barnet, so what if it's small? I'm actually not certain it was Barnet that another poster said had seats within their concourse, but, what does it matter. My opinion is that. Certain groups of people, which you can't think why, do need to sit for a while prior to a match. Do you see how I said "prior", that's all I've ever suggested, as the groups of people I refer to, would not be able to get to and back from the concourse within the half time period, let alone queue for and partake in refreshments in that short space of time due to their mobility problems.

I'd like our club to buck the trend of the majority of football clubs in the UK, and, provide some seating in the concourse areas, these could also cater for our aging population, which will also include  20% disabled within twenty years, as well as those classed as ambulant disabled. Football supporters are not always young, fit and able to stand around having a few pints with their mates, other people of varying levels of mobility also attend.  You never know, in this present day you are fit and able and hopefully you'll stay that way, but, it might not always be the case. So it's not really about who has or hasn't provided this basic amenity, it's about who will.

 

[TV Tom]

On 15/12/2017 at 10:13, phantom said:

On the basis that NO clubs appear to have this "seating area" I would say clubs don't want (or even need) to provide seats?

 

There is no seating in the concourse area at Wembley???

The Liverpool area with tables are different as these areas that aren't the actual concourse

As for Barnet that place is so small and narrow it's only a couple of paces from the entrance to the pitch

The only bar they have is away from the pitch

 

The more I think about it the more I wonder why anyone would actually want to sit down?

Before the game there are areas where people can sit (Sports bar / SC&T bar) half time can't imagine anyone would want to walk down to the concourse from their seat just to sit down

Seeing as the average age of a supporter is over 40 i’d Imagine there are plenty who would like to sit, myself included, does anyone sit down in the sports bar?

[phantom]

11 hours ago, harrys said:

Seeing as the average age of a supporter is over 40 i’d Imagine there are plenty who would like to sit, myself included, does anyone sit down in the sports bar?

Yes, there is seating around the edge of the area - also lots of seating in the supporters bar upstairs (there is a lift too)

[CyderInACan]

26 minutes ago, phantom said:

Yes, there is seating around the edge of the area - also lots of seating in the supporters bar upstairs (there is a lift too)

The SCAT bar is the only option I reckon 

 

[Rich]

11 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

The SCAT bar is the only option I reckon 

 

Which is not a very good option for someone with mobility problems. The sports bar is crowded and not easy to manoeuvre in or out of, with the majority of seating in the eating areas. So for someone in the Dolman or any other part of the ground it means making your way to the bar, hoping there's room for your party, with seats, then making your way to whichever part of the ground you sit, and doing so through quite crowded areas. If there were seating in the concourse, you could arrive early, have a drink and chat with your friends/family, then make your way to your seat at the same time as you would if there weren't seating.

[phantom]

10 hours ago, Rich said:

Which is not a very good option for someone with mobility problems. The sports bar is crowded and not easy to manoeuvre in or out of, with the majority of seating in the eating areas. So for someone in the Dolman or any other part of the ground it means making your way to the bar, hoping there's room for your party, with seats, then making your way to whichever part of the ground you sit, and doing so through quite crowded areas. If there were seating in the concourse, you could arrive early, have a drink and chat with your friends/family, then make your way to your seat at the same time as you would if there weren't seating.

@Rich being deadly serious, you should come and have a look at the SC&T bar, there is a lift to get people upstairs, and the main bar is certainly no busier than a concourse, I honestly believe it will suit the requirements you mention above

I sit in E34 (furthest point from the bar) and meet numerous friends in the bar before the game - if you are getting there as early as it seems above you will have no problems in your group finding a seat

[Rich]

12 hours ago, phantom said:

@Rich being deadly serious, you should come and have a look at the SC&T bar, there is a lift to get people upstairs, and the main bar is certainly no busier than a concourse, I honestly believe it will suit the requirements you mention above

I sit in E34 (furthest point from the bar) and meet numerous friends in the bar before the game - if you are getting there as early as it seems above you will have no problems in your group finding a seat

Thanks for the reply but, in our case I don't think you understand the situation, so I'll explain a little more. I have no mobility problems myself but there are many that do. If you have issues with distance and crowds then you need to get to your seat early (20mins before) so that you don't encounter bottlenecks or people jostling to get in. So if there were seats in the concourse areas, close to the entrances, then people could turn up say an hour before the match, have time for a drink or food with mates/family, pop to the loo and then go in. They would need best part of an hour so as not to be rushed. Put a trip through the crowded sports bar, up in a lift, off to the loo, then another trip through the crowded bar and they'd have little time to enjoy the facilities.

My brother in law needs someone to accompany him as a steadying influence just to walk from the road to the ground, with a couple of breather stops along the way. He gets nervous if there are people pushing or rushing around, so needs to be in place early. We took him once into the Lansdown stand and he just managed to sit on the outer ledge for about five minutes. So we had to take him into the ground and someone had to sit with him. Thirty minutes before the game a trip to the loo was needed, so that meant another trip down stairs, through the concourse and then back again, it is not easy. He is registered disabled but if a chair were used then he would become reliant on it, which is not an option as with help he is mobile and that mobility is good for his general health. So the current situation is not good for him which is sad, as he loves his football and enjoys being spoilt by family and friends. Why can't he have a seat? 

I know of several people that turn up late and go straight to their seat because they can't stand for too long. There's one chap that manages to bring his own fold up stool (too rickety) for heavier people. Most of these people are elderly, though some have spinal problems, some leg problems, there are actually numerous people that do not feel as if they are catered for within the ground, apart from the actual stadium seating which is excellent. So perhaps the club are losing out on custom in the earlier pre match times, just because other clubs don't provide a little seating.

[Tipps69]

8 hours ago, Rich said:

Thanks for the reply but, in our case I don't think you understand the situation, so I'll explain a little more. I have no mobility problems myself but there are many that do. If you have issues with distance and crowds then you need to get to your seat early (20mins before) so that you don't encounter bottlenecks or people jostling to get in. So if there were seats in the concourse areas, close to the entrances, then people could turn up say an hour before the match, have time for a drink or food with mates/family, pop to the loo and then go in. They would need best part of an hour so as not to be rushed. Put a trip through the crowded sports bar, up in a lift, off to the loo, then another trip through the crowded bar and they'd have little time to enjoy the facilities.

My brother in law needs someone to accompany him as a steadying influence just to walk from the road to the ground, with a couple of breather stops along the way. He gets nervous if there are people pushing or rushing around, so needs to be in place early. We took him once into the Lansdown stand and he just managed to sit on the outer ledge for about five minutes. So we had to take him into the ground and someone had to sit with him. Thirty minutes before the game a trip to the loo was needed, so that meant another trip down stairs, through the concourse and then back again, it is not easy. He is registered disabled but if a chair were used then he would become reliant on it, which is not an option as with help he is mobile and that mobility is good for his general health. So the current situation is not good for him which is sad, as he loves his football and enjoys being spoilt by family and friends. Why can't he have a seat? 

I know of several people that turn up late and go straight to their seat because they can't stand for too long. There's one chap that manages to bring his own fold up stool (too rickety) for heavier people. Most of these people are elderly, though some have spinal problems, some leg problems, there are actually numerous people that do not feel as if they are catered for within the ground, apart from the actual stadium seating which is excellent. So perhaps the club are losing out on custom in the earlier pre match times, just because other clubs don't provide a little seating.

The club (Mark Kelly) has explained that they have looked into it but for varying reasons it’s something that isn’t an option right now. They haven’t said it’s something that will never happen, so there is hope that a solution can be found in the future.

The club have many many things to deal with & unfortunately things that we as individuals see as important are put into a queue of things to do & aren’t down to just the club, they need cooperation from different services (builders, health & safety etc) so could it be that it’s something that could be sorted in the summer, when the hurley burley of the football & rugby seasons are finished & they have time to put something proper in place?

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

@Rich Let's be honest there are options you could take up, as Phantom has described about the supporters club bar would be more than suitable, I've been in the section opposite and have seen people with mobility problems in there and they manage fine getting up and down in the lift and back to the concourse

Stop being so bloody minded about the whole seating thing, there are options for you and your friends but you just choose to ignore them

[Big C]

11 hours ago, Rich said:

Thanks for the reply but, in our case I don't think you understand the situation, so I'll explain a little more. I have no mobility problems myself but there are many that do. If you have issues with distance and crowds then you need to get to your seat early (20mins before) so that you don't encounter bottlenecks or people jostling to get in. So if there were seats in the concourse areas, close to the entrances, then people could turn up say an hour before the match, have time for a drink or food with mates/family, pop to the loo and then go in. They would need best part of an hour so as not to be rushed. Put a trip through the crowded sports bar, up in a lift, off to the loo, then another trip through the crowded bar and they'd have little time to enjoy the facilities.

My brother in law needs someone to accompany him as a steadying influence just to walk from the road to the ground, with a couple of breather stops along the way. He gets nervous if there are people pushing or rushing around, so needs to be in place early. We took him once into the Lansdown stand and he just managed to sit on the outer ledge for about five minutes. So we had to take him into the ground and someone had to sit with him. Thirty minutes before the game a trip to the loo was needed, so that meant another trip down stairs, through the concourse and then back again, it is not easy. He is registered disabled but if a chair were used then he would become reliant on it, which is not an option as with help he is mobile and that mobility is good for his general health. So the current situation is not good for him which is sad, as he loves his football and enjoys being spoilt by family and friends. Why can't he have a seat? 

I know of several people that turn up late and go straight to their seat because they can't stand for too long. There's one chap that manages to bring his own fold up stool (too rickety) for heavier people. Most of these people are elderly, though some have spinal problems, some leg problems, there are actually numerous people that do not feel as if they are catered for within the ground, apart from the actual stadium seating which is excellent. So perhaps the club are losing out on custom in the earlier pre match times, just because other clubs don't provide a little seating.

You said he had a outer ledge in the Lansdown but had to leave after 5 mins, maybe I'm missing something but what's the difference between seating on one of those ledges and a seat?

[Rich]

On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 07:34, Tipps69 said:

The club (Mark Kelly) has explained that they have looked into it but for varying reasons it’s something that isn’t an option right now. They haven’t said it’s something that will never happen, so there is hope that a solution can be found in the future.

The club have many many things to deal with & unfortunately things that we as individuals see as important are put into a queue of things to do & aren’t down to just the club, they need cooperation from different services (builders, health & safety etc) so could it be that it’s something that could be sorted in the summer, when the hurley burley of the football & rugby seasons are finished & they have time to put something proper in place?

Yes I know.

[Rich]

On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 11:19, Big C said:

You said he had a outer ledge in the Lansdown but had to leave after 5 mins, maybe I'm missing something but what's the difference between seating on one of those ledges and a seat?

The outer ledge I refer to is lower that normal seating height and does not have the same depth (back to front) as a normal seat, basically it wasn't designed for seating and is uncomfortable, I'm fine on it but it was a real struggle to get my brother in law up from.

[Rich]

On ‎12‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 10:41, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

@Rich Let's be honest there are options you could take up, as Phantom has described about the supporters club bar would be more than suitable, I've been in the section opposite and have seen people with mobility problems in there and they manage fine getting up and down in the lift and back to the concourse

Stop being so bloody minded about the whole seating thing, there are options for you and your friends but you just choose to ignore them

Yes there are options as Phantom has mentioned, I know the stadium well after coming to it for over fifty years. I also know my brother in law, which you don't, so, if we're talking about being honest I can tell you that we have tried these options and they are not suitable for him, I'll PM you. 

As I've said, this is not just about one person, within twenty years, because of an ageing population, we will have twenty percent of the population registered as having a disability. The sports bar gets too busy the closer the match gets, there's very few seats unless you're eating and have a table booked and the supporters bar is members only, so you just can't turn up in a group and waltz in.

If you call persistence and determination bloody minded then, I'm bloody minded. If you do not understand a situation, but form an opinion and voice it based on little knowledge, then that's bloody ignorant.