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Lee Johnson


bpexile

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20 minutes ago, simon uk said:

I dont understand whats happened, it appears we are suggesting that players shouldnt be expected to play in the championship until they are 24/25n and we are buying them much younger, for the future. Are we really thinking it will take players 4 to 5 years before they are ready for the championship? Are we really signing elliason then not expecting him to play much for the duration of his contract?

If that's in reference to my post I didn't suggest that at all. I was making the point people are wrong to write players off by the age of 22/23/24 if they aren't good players at this level by then. Obviously we would hope they will be good enough asap but some players reach their potential earlier than others. 

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On 01/09/2017 at 00:08, bpexile said:

I am not trying to start another "S*** Storm" but would like to say thatwhile the jury is still out with me but slightly leaning in LJ's favour. However I do feel he's doing a great job with the younger players at BCFC with both selling the club to them & installing confidence. Long may it continue, just off to get my hard hat, bye for now.

Johnson Out

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47 minutes ago, hodge said:

If that's in reference to my post I didn't suggest that at all. I was making the point people are wrong to write players off by the age of 22/23/24 if they aren't good players at this level by then. Obviously we would hope they will be good enough asap but some players reach their potential earlier than others. 

No wasnt thinking of anyone in particular on here. If for example we are still waiting for engvall to come good, that will have been 1.5 years after signing by the time hes back from sweden, and still no guarantee that he will be ready, but still highly rated for the future. Same with a lot of those signings, including odowda Magnússon and taylor moore, who at least is a bit younger. Can it really need 2 years of training for Hörður Magnússon to be ready for championship football with his background and international experience? If thats what it really takes, why are we buying anyone from abroad or lower leagues, surely the transfer fee and wasted salary would be better spent on  championship ready first teamers?

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3 minutes ago, simon uk said:

No wasnt thinking of anyone in particular on here. If for example we are still waiting for engvall to come good, that will have been 1.5 years after signing by the time hes back from sweden, and still no guarantee that he will be ready, but still highly rated for the future. Same with a lot of those signings, including odowda Magnússon and taylor moore, who at least is a bit younger. Can it really need 2 years of training for Hörður Magnússon to be ready for championship football with his background and international experience? If thats what it really takes, why are we buying anyone from abroad or lower leagues, surely the transfer fee and wasted salary would be better spent on  championship ready first teamers?

I think with Magnússon in particular, the reason he isn't playing is because we upgraded the position. We're really strong at centre half now. If we're to push on as a club we will need to keep upgrading and players will lose their places. It's not a case of him not being 'ready', it's more that his competitors are better right now. 

Don't think it's that unreasonable for us to wait for the likes of Moore and Engvall (although I think there's much more to it with Engvall).

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How many of our young uns are 1, going to play in the first team consistently, and 2, ever make us any money ? not many imo.

With lj randomly spending millions, under 21s under 18`s, academy or whatever you call them now their future can only be with teams like some are gone to now...Chelt etc  sorry just my opinion.

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On 3 September 2017 at 16:44, JonDolman said:

 

So 22 is no longer young? Magnússon to me looked much better against Watford than he did last season. And will continue to improve as he gets older, you would think. Most defenders improve in their mid to late 20s, so 24 is still pretty young.

Important point, 24-28 is probably peak years for most strikers but central defenders are different. I would probably say 28-32 would be peak years for the majority of central defenders.

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1 hour ago, glos old boy said:

How many of our young uns are 1, going to play in the first team consistently, and 2, ever make us any money ? not many imo.

With lj randomly spending millions, under 21s under 18`s, academy or whatever you call them now their future can only be with teams like some are gone to now...Chelt etc  sorry just my opinion.

It only takes the odd gem or two to hit a pay off

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The rate fees are going up as well, how long is it before league 1 teams start paying a million for a decent player at that standard? So buying players like O'Dowda now for £1.7m or so who at the moment looks like he could make it. If he doesn't by another season or so could be sold for over a million potentially. 

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22 minutes ago, brizzlelou said:

It only takes the odd gem or two to hit a pay off

Look its a good plan BUT highly unlikely to pay off anything; first a "young un" has got to get in to a 1st team, that LJ seems to be over filling with players from everywhere and not without cost. Then this youth has to rise to the top of that 1st team and stay there and be noticed.....then what someone may sign this youth whos risen through the ranks and.......we are back to where we started. The money from this transfer? may just cover costs of others who didn't make it and the scouts who found them.

We will never have a fortune from our young un`s so why not just buy decent proven players in the first place.

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45 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

Look its a good plan BUT highly unlikely to pay off anything; first a "young un" has got to get in to a 1st team, that LJ seems to be over filling with players from everywhere and not without cost. Then this youth has to rise to the top of that 1st team and stay there and be noticed.....then what someone may sign this youth whos risen through the ranks and.......we are back to where we started. The money from this transfer? may just cover costs of others who didn't make it and the scouts who found them.

We will never have a fortune from our young un`s so why not just buy decent proven players in the first place.

Because buying established championship players is becoming more expensive every window. Nouha Dicko supposedly £3.8m and has scored 3 goals last year and a bad injury record. Howson 5.65m, Shotton 3.2m (who some don't think is as good as Flint). Aluko £7.5m. Just a few examples but its no surprise that more teams are either taking punts on lower league players or looking abroad now for value for money as there is very little in the championship itself unless you're lucky (us with Pato springs to mind).

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4 hours ago, glos old boy said:

Look its a good plan BUT highly unlikely to pay off anything; first a "young un" has got to get in to a 1st team, that LJ seems to be over filling with players from everywhere and not without cost. Then this youth has to rise to the top of that 1st team and stay there and be noticed.....then what someone may sign this youth whos risen through the ranks and.......we are back to where we started. The money from this transfer? may just cover costs of others who didn't make it and the scouts who found them.

We will never have a fortune from our young un`s so why not just buy decent proven players in the first place.

U18 signings are often a few hundred thousand at most.

So lets say 10 are signed at the upper end of that. £3m spent.

If 1 of them makes it with us, we can recoup that entire outlay. Any money the other players are sold for- and most would be sold, even if they didnt make it with us- is profit.

 

Of course, it is far, far easier to shout and scream that everything is a failure and a waste of time and/or money than to actually wait, or give it a chance for this to work. The U18 signings arent going to be expected to be straight in the XI and many wont be for more than a season or two- LJ raved about Bakinson and said we'd hopefully see him in the first team in 18 months.

As for squad that is "over filled" it is average size for this division. But I suppose a fact wouldnt let you rant.

Or we could spend big on proven Championship players and waltz the division just like Aston Villa last season. 

Oh, hang on. Villa didnt go up despite their 40m+ spend on proven players and despite this seasons efforts are still struggling to make it so they will pass FFP next year.

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5 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

U18 signings are often a few hundred thousand at most.

So lets say 10 are signed at the upper end of that. £3m spent.

If 1 of them makes it with us, we can recoup that entire outlay. Any money the other players are sold for- and most would be sold, even if they didnt make it with us- is profit.

 

Of course, it is far, far easier to shout and scream that everything is a failure and a waste of time and/or money than to actually wait, or give it a chance for this to work. The U18 signings arent going to be expected to be straight in the XI and many wont be for more than a season or two- LJ raved about Bakinson and said we'd hopefully see him in the first team in 18 months.

As for squad that is "over filled" it is average size for this division. But I suppose a fact wouldnt let you rant.

Or we could spend big on proven Championship players and waltz the division just like Aston Villa last season. 

Oh, hang on. Villa didnt go up despite their 40m+ spend on proven players and despite this seasons efforts are still struggling to make it so they will pass FFP next year.

You quote Villa but ignore Cardiff and Wolves how many of their players came through the ranks? they aren't doing too bad; even Villa will be back in the prem way before us as we seem content to go around in circles.

 

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12 hours ago, glos old boy said:

How many of our young uns are 1, going to play in the first team consistently, and 2, ever make us any money ? not many imo.

You have no way of knowing either way right now 

12 hours ago, glos old boy said:

With lj randomly spending millions, under 21s under 18`s, academy or whatever you call them now their future can only be with teams like some are gone to now...Chelt etc  sorry just my opinion.

Don't think so, let's wait and see. Your negativity - basically just for the sake of it - is incredibly tiresome.

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54 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

You quote Villa but ignore Cardiff and Wolves how many of their players came through the ranks? they aren't doing too bad; even Villa will be back in the prem way before us as we seem content to go around in circles.

 

Wolves are an anomaly and not really comparable. Cardiff are doing well right now but it's still very early season.

Zohore - one of Cardiff's best players - came from Denmark and relative obscurity; the sort of signing we'd typically make.

How would your model for recruitment work then? We only buy the top players in the league? We're relatively small fry in this league, we can't just go out and buy the best. 

Of course you'd expect Villa to get promotion before us, would be a big failure on their part if we didn't. They're a much bigger club with a far more expensive squad than us so it's hard to compare.

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6 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

U18 signings are often a few hundred thousand at most.

So lets say 10 are signed at the upper end of that. £3m spent.

If 1 of them makes it with us, we can recoup that entire outlay. Any money the other players are sold for- and most would be sold, even if they didnt make it with us- is profit.

 

Of course, it is far, far easier to shout and scream that everything is a failure and a waste of time and/or money than to actually wait, or give it a chance for this to work. The U18 signings arent going to be expected to be straight in the XI and many wont be for more than a season or two- LJ raved about Bakinson and said we'd hopefully see him in the first team in 18 months.

As for squad that is "over filled" it is average size for this division. But I suppose a fact wouldnt let you rant.

Or we could spend big on proven Championship players and waltz the division just like Aston Villa last season. 

Oh, hang on. Villa didnt go up despite their 40m+ spend on proven players and despite this seasons efforts are still struggling to make it so they will pass FFP next year.

Totally agree James

As someone who has concerns over a lot of our recruitment over last 18 months I think this strategy is possibly the most sensible part of our recruitment / strategy for the reasons you've highlighted - as you say you only need one in 6/8/10 to become a championship player get a return on the investment

Was interesting chatting to LJ / JM afterwards to hear how much we watch / monitor  other sides U18s / 23s

To use a MA repeated phrase 'It's a pond we are definitely fishing in'

While I remember - was said that the lad we signed from Derry has something about him and an 'Irish edge' to him (Competititve wise) which a lot of ex academy players don't 

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It's always a gamble with youngsters as you don't know how they are going to progress,   I love the clubs vision and plan of buying young but for every diamond you are going to get a few mistakes ask the best ever manager in sir ALEX f  why he brought bellion  2 million was crap pat mcgibbon for 100k but only played once , Djemba -djemba 2.5 million   I could go on 

arsenal the same but can't be arsed to name them

id rather this route than the HARRY redknapp route of buying old expensive players that give us 1 year 

jeez some people think this football lark is easy 

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Just read this whole thread, and I am the only one thinking the title should be changed?

90% of the content is a very interesting read about the youth development / selling / buying strategies and risk involved.

Just the occasional Johnson Out thrown in for no apparent reason.  Bloody good thread though, BPExile.

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5 hours ago, glos old boy said:

You quote Villa but ignore Cardiff and Wolves how many of their players came through the ranks? they aren't doing too bad; even Villa will be back in the prem way before us as we seem content to go around in circles.

 

Yeah, the table after 5 games is definitely the most important won.

How did we do in the playoffs last year?

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13 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Odowda would be worth over 3 million now I reckon. Potentially way more. I can't see why some people don't rate him. I don't think Paterson and Brownhill are necessarily better. They all bring different qualities.

I like O'Dowda, but can, to an extent, understand some concerns around him.

However you are right. We would already be able to sell him on for more than we paid, and he will increase in value when he is a bit more consistent.

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13 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Totally agree James

As someone who has concerns over a lot of our recruitment over last 18 months I think this strategy is possibly the most sensible part of our recruitment / strategy for the reasons you've highlighted - as you say you only need one in 6/8/10 to become a championship player get a return on the investment

Was interesting chatting to LJ / JM afterwards to hear how much we watch / monitor  other sides U18s / 23s

To use a MA repeated phrase 'It's a pond we are definitely fishing in'

While I remember - was said that the lad we signed from Derry has something about him and an 'Irish edge' to him (Competititve wise) which a lot of ex academy players don't 

Funnily enough, I was listening to TalkSport the other morning on the way into work, and whoever was on was suggesting that there is too much 'scouting' of other team's academies and not enough scouting of other junior football or parks football.  They said it was lazy scouting.

Personally, I think we are taking the better approach.

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