England Fans: Opinions?

[54-46]

Went to Marseilles in 1998 with 2 other mates, only one of us had a ticket so watched on the big screen on the beach which was interesting to say the least

Then stayed in a little village in Provence for a few days - same place the Scottish team were based. Had a great time in the local bars, apparantly one of which was owned by Zidane's cousin - yes, I know probably BS but he was a nice bloke so we were happy to give him our cash

That was all pre internet days and assume you now have to be a full member of the travel club?  Would love to do a few more if I'm honest but have never looked into it as I assume it would be too hard to get tickets

 

[054123]

7 hours ago, SARJ said:

Recently got involved in a hated discussion about the sort of people that follow England away.

Lower league lager louts giving it the billy big b*llocks seemed to be the general consensus, with so say supporters being classified as nothing more than wannabe hooligan 'belters' who give us a bad name abroad (not that it needed worsening anyways).

Do people agree with said character assasination of our people? I know a lot of City follow England away and as I know a number of said individuals it's a real mixture between your genuine football fans looking for a good enjoyable time and your absolute belters clad in Stone Island and Ralph Lauren caps thinking they're hard. 

Videos online range from certain fans seemingly having a sing-a-long/good time and not causing trouble to belters throwing beer and bottles everywhere and being general t!ts in public/p!ssing off the locals.

Thoughts on the issue? Would you follow England away knowing these types would be there?

As opposed to the lovable Irish who enjoy their anti English, sectarian songs (look it up on youtube)?

My point is complete belters follow all clubs and all countries.

Thankfully Englandhave relatively fee these days and following them is a delight.

[Bar BS3]

7 hours ago, streety_bcfc said:

Did you get to play against this guy?

 

 

Frank Fielding..?!

[North London Red]

2 hours ago, Rob k said:

I stayed in Dortmund and don't remember seeing any trouble - in fact I thought it was all quite good natured 

There wasn't any direct trouble between English and German fans (at least that I'm aware of) but a number of fans were caught on camera giving one armed salutes in the stadium during the German national anthem - there was an FA / police appeal to identify the fans who did it (as it's a criminal offence to do so in Germany), and a long thread on the England fans message board about it. Also loads of fans throwing beer (well, possibly another yellow coloured liquid), a small group of English visitors who stole a load of memorabilia from a Dortmund football pub, and fans scrapping among themselves in the square near the hauptbahnhof on the afternoon of the game. 

So...not the large scale disorder of the 80s, but not very clever nonetheless. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, 054123 said:

As opposed to the lovable Irish who enjoy their anti English, sectarian songs (look it up on youtube)?

My point is complete belters follow all clubs and all countries.

Thankfully Englandhave relatively fee these days and following them is a delight.

Generally though, they do seem to be quite warmly received overseas.

Perhaps they resent the history of England in Ireland. Not condoning it but perhaps they don't like (or in some ways get?) the history.

So far as I know though they don't have perception of a troublesome element overseas hence why they are better received? I know it's mainly in the past, however mud does stick. Just life, isn't it? The mud sticking thing I mean.

[Rob k]

7 hours ago, North London Red said:

There wasn't any direct trouble between English and German fans (at least that I'm aware of) but a number of fans were caught on camera giving one armed salutes in the stadium during the German national anthem - there was an FA / police appeal to identify the fans who did it (as it's a criminal offence to do so in Germany), and a long thread on the England fans message board about it. Also loads of fans throwing beer (well, possibly another yellow coloured liquid), a small group of English visitors who stole a load of memorabilia from a Dortmund football pub, and fans scrapping among themselves in the square near the hauptbahnhof on the afternoon of the game. 

So...not the large scale disorder of the 80s, but not very clever nonetheless. 

I must be oblivious to things then as whilst I knew that people were being investigated I did not see anything being thrown ( I was sat In the England end).

We were also drinking in that square and I never saw anything happen in terms of fighting,  (not saying it didn't happen though) 

id have said Berlin was worse than Dortmund.

[Phileas Fogg]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Generally though, they do seem to be quite warmly received overseas.

Perhaps they resent the history of England in Ireland. Not condoning it but perhaps they don't like (or in some ways get?) the history.

So far as I know though they don't have perception of a troublesome element overseas hence why they are better received? I know it's mainly in the past, however mud does stick. Just life, isn't it? The mud sticking thing I mean.

Not sure if they've been responsible for much violence which may alter the perception.

I met lots of pissed up Celtic/Hibs fans abroad and there's definitely an anti-British undercurrent. Always requesting 'rebel songs' on the jukebox, singing about the IRA etc.

Nothing directly threatening, just very noticeable. Perhaps that's the difference.. might be welcomed in parts of Europe where there's similar independence / sovereignty issues.

[054123]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not sure if they've been responsible for much violence which may alter the perception.

I met lots of pissed up Celtic/Hibs fans abroad and there's definitely an anti-British undercurrent. Always requesting 'rebel songs' on the jukebox, singing about the IRA etc.

Nothing directly threatening, just very noticeable. Perhaps that's the difference.. might be welcomed in parts of Europe where there's similar independence / sovereignty issues.

It's funny that. If i sing songs about defeating a maniacal, genocidal country hell bent on conquering my country via military measures, I'm the one who's arrested.

Seems like strange double standards to me.

[Kid in the Riot]

8 hours ago, North London Red said:

There wasn't any direct trouble between English and German fans (at least that I'm aware of) but a number of fans were caught on camera giving one armed salutes in the stadium during the German national anthem - there was an FA / police appeal to identify the fans who did it (as it's a criminal offence to do so in Germany), and a long thread on the England fans message board about it. Also loads of fans throwing beer (well, possibly another yellow coloured liquid), a small group of English visitors who stole a load of memorabilia from a Dortmund football pub, and fans scrapping among themselves in the square near the hauptbahnhof on the afternoon of the game. 

So...not the large scale disorder of the 80s, but not very clever nonetheless. 

I think it's just the England v Germany effect. Seen England twice in Berlin (two wins!) and both times there has been a larger than usual amount of nobbers.

10 hours ago, 54-46 said:

Went to Marseilles in 1998 with 2 other mates, only one of us had a ticket so watched on the big screen on the beach which was interesting to say the least

Then stayed in a little village in Provence for a few days - same place the Scottish team were based. Had a great time in the local bars, apparantly one of which was owned by Zidane's cousin - yes, I know probably BS but he was a nice bloke so we were happy to give him our cash

That was all pre internet days and assume you now have to be a full member of the travel club?  Would love to do a few more if I'm honest but have never looked into it as I assume it would be too hard to get tickets

It's been fairly easy to get tickets over the past few years as interest has waned. £65 membership fee for each two year campaign gives you access to tickets for home and away games. For Russia you could sign up for the membership now and still get tickets for the tournament, no problem. You could do this for Ukraine too. Obviously different story for France and will be again for Euro 2020.

[Phileas Fogg]

44 minutes ago, 054123 said:

It's funny that. If i sing songs about defeating a maniacal, genocidal country hell bent on conquering my country via military measures, I'm the one who's arrested.

Seems like strange double standards to me.

Yeah interesting point.

They'd find it greatly amusing to say 'up the RA' to any English person they came across.

Think only a couple of them had real Irish heritage so it shows how far ingrained all that stuff is in Scottish football. Glad we don't have it in the English game.

[CyderInACan]

4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 

They'd find it greatly amusing to say 'up the RA' to any English person they came across.

Whilst wearing a Tony Cascarino shirt

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not sure if they've been responsible for much violence which may alter the perception.

I met lots of pissed up Celtic/Hibs fans abroad and there's definitely an anti-British undercurrent. Always requesting 'rebel songs' on the jukebox, singing about the IRA etc.

Nothing directly threatening, just very noticeable. Perhaps that's the difference.. might be welcomed in parts of Europe where there's similar independence / sovereignty issues.

Agree on what you say. Never met any Hibs or Celtic fans but can certainly believe that. No real violence overseas also helps with perception.

Bit I highlighted especially agree with. Basques or Catalans as one example.

@054123 Which war are you talking about? IRA though terrorists could hardly be called genocidal. Anyway don't want to open this can of worms on this thread. Overall I agree with PF mainly. 

On the topic itself, troublesome minority element-  would have been somewhat more major 30, 40 years ago, now far smaller, better contained, most England away fans fine- IMO.

[Phileas Fogg]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree on what you say. Never met any Hibs or Celtic fans but can certainly believe that. No real violence overseas also helps with perception.

Bit I highlighted especially agree with. Basques or Catalans as one example.

@054123 Which war are you talking about? IRA though terrorists could hardly be called genocidal. Anyway don't want to open this can of worms on this thread. Overall I agree with PF mainly. 

On the topic itself, troublesome element- major 30, 40 years ago, now far smaller, better contained, most England away fans fine- IMO.

Reminds me of a very moving video of Celtic fans singing YNWA vs Barcelona to show solidarity with Spaniards after the Madrid rail attacks. Link below.

The Celtic/Hibs fans I met were good guys mainly, just found it very strange how a group of normal people (who when push comes to shove probably aren't that bothered about the IRA or that cause) idly made jokes about it or sang songs about it. 

 

[SARJ]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not sure if they've been responsible for much violence which may alter the perception.

I met lots of pissed up Celtic/Hibs fans abroad and there's definitely an anti-British undercurrent. Always requesting 'rebel songs' on the jukebox, singing about the IRA etc.

Nothing directly threatening, just very noticeable. Perhaps that's the difference.. might be welcomed in parts of Europe where there's similar independence / sovereignty issues.

Very true. I have a Basque mate and she says there's this weird friendship between Atheltic Bilbao and Celtic and has photos in her home town of murals depicting both club crests alongside the Basque flag and 'Independcia' slogans.

[shelts]

21 hours ago, Shtanley said:

I went to the WC in 2010 and travelled around with the England fans' football team. We played friendlies against local teams, reformed drug abusers and even played a game in a maximum security prison against the inmates. Really immersed ourselves in local culture and it was amazing. 

 

Wow that sounds wonderful fair play to you . 

[054123]

37 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree on what you say. Never met any Hibs or Celtic fans but can certainly believe that. No real violence overseas also helps with perception.

Bit I highlighted especially agree with. Basques or Catalans as one example.

@054123 Which war are you talking about? IRA though terrorists could hardly be called genocidal. Anyway don't want to open this can of worms on this thread. Overall I agree with PF mainly. 

On the topic itself, troublesome minority element-  would have been somewhat more major 30, 40 years ago, now far smaller, better contained, most England away fans fine- IMO.

The second world war of course.

I was listening to an American podcast which has an Englishman who contributes and he was saying how we just don't talk about and it's frowned upon to bring it up. The Americans were amazed by this, they regularly remind him about 1776.

[shelts]

19 hours ago, shepton red said:

Why?? I am sure the majority who sing this song, neither mean any malice or violence towards the Germans; very much tongue in cheek. Perhaps we should stop viewing the famous Basil Fawlty sketch?

What song is it ?

[Mr Popodopolous]

25 minutes ago, 054123 said:

The second world war of course.

I was listening to an American podcast which has an Englishman who contributes and he was saying how we just don't talk about and it's frowned upon to bring it up. The Americans were amazed by this, they regularly remind him about 1776.

Of course, yep was bit confused there for a bit.

Can well believe that.

@shepton red The Basil Fawlty sketch was somewhat of a pisstake of those attitudes. Unsure all of those who sing it have the same interpretation...

[BCFC1512]

Been doing England away since 2005 (not every game I must add) but have never seen serious trouble. Yes you get a few drunken idiots but you can say that about any club sides away following. Roll on Lithuania.

[WayOutWest]

23 hours ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

Have been to a number of finals, and have seen a wide range of fans. To name a few: a mob of Hackett-clad, No Surrender chanting, bellends on the train to Charleroi in 2000; some knuckle-dragger, with an EDL tattoo around his belly-button, telling a few local lads in Rustenburg in 2010 about how they got it right with apartheid; a balding, 4-eyed, utter weapon in Sao Paulo in 2014 giving verbals to the Uruguayans sat around us.

But on the flip side, I have also met a load of decent football fans, who just want to have a drink, watch a match, and enjoy time in some foreign land ( @WayOutWest among them).

We seem to attract all sorts, and as someone earlier pointed out, just avoid a) the main square of the town we are playing in or b) Scruffy ******'s Oirish pub and generally you'll be fine.

Thanks mate!

Like you @One Team In KeynshamFollowing England has provided me with some of the best memories, that will stay with me forever.  Met some brilliant people, met some utter dross.  Thats life though isn't?

Nothing like standing on a terrace in a foreign land, flag up, singing your heart out. Please note, generally speaking your not there for the football.  It will let you down.  Nice 2016.

Having said all that, getting shot at in a Slovakian bar circa 2000 wasn't much fun.  A city lad, was shot in the leg.  Wrong place wrong time.  It happens.

Stevo

[Red-Robbo]

Can I appeal to those that follow our national team not to sing that ******* dirge God Save the Queen. Not only is it the worst football anthem ever (apart from Goodnight Irene) but it is the UK national anthem and has nothing to do with England.

If you happen to be next to that trumpeter who honks out a shaky version of GSTQ about once every three minutes, could you please take the instrument away from him and threaten to insert it where it would probably be more tuneful if he wants it back.

Ta. 

[Libertine Dream]

24 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Can I appeal to those that follow our national team not to sing that ******* dirge God Save the Queen. Not only is it the worst football anthem ever (apart from Goodnight Irene) but it is the UK national anthem and has nothing to do with England.

If you happen to be next to that trumpeter who honks out a shaky version of GSTQ about once every three minutes, could you please take the instrument away from him and threaten to insert it where it would probably be more tuneful if he wants it back.

Ta. 

Yes when supporting our nation do not sing our national anthem! Dear me. 

Been following England home & away for a few years. Can only echo above always some belters but never seen any serious trouble. Love the atmosphere & the feeling of being abroad supporting your country, drinking with your mates & visiting countries you wouldn't ever dream of going. Shame the football gets in the way of a really good trip away tbh!!

 

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Can't stand me now said:

Yes when supporting our nation do not sing our national anthem! Dear me. 

 

 

Our team is England NOT the UK.

Sing an England anthem, not one that could as easily be sung by Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish fans. (Except they were bright enough to adopt ones for their exclusive use)

[Libertine Dream]

58 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Our team is England NOT the UK.

Sing an England anthem, not one that could as easily be sung by Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish fans. (Except they were bright enough to adopt ones for their exclusive use)

Agreed it is not ideal that it is used by all but it is still our national anthem so should be sung with pride. 

On the same note I always find it funny that Scotland & wales boo their own national anthem (gstq) & always think how pathetic they look by doing so.

[North London Red]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

Our team is England NOT the UK.

Sing an England anthem, not one that could as easily be sung by Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish fans. (Except they were bright enough to adopt ones for their exclusive use)

Pedantic point but Northern Ireland also use GSTQ as their anthem for football internationals. When England and Northern Ireland were in the same qualifying group for the 2006 World Cup, it was only played once at Old Trafford and once at Windsor Park. 

Then there was Liechtenstein in 2003 when the same tune was played twice, as the Liechtenstein anthem has the same tune as GSTQ but (obviously) different words. I remember Scotland fans booing the Liechtenstein anthem when they played them a few years back. 

[Harry]

Been to a few England away games and it's always a hugely enjoyable experience.

Generally when I've been there has been a very good representation of City lads - a good 70-80 or more.  It's great to go with such a large group of people you know and have a brilliant time.

Aside from a few occasions, the City lads in the main have tended to keep well away from the powderkeg of the main town square and Irish bars.  It's great to find a nice back-street boozer, endear yourself to the owner and meet up with other England fans of the same ilk - we generally find that the same groups of Pompey, Cov, Stevenage & Brum find themselves with us and steering clear of the nobbers.

One particular memory was Lithuania last time around.  A group of about 60 City decided to leave Vilnius and hop on a train 45 minutes out of town to the picturesque Trakai Castle.  We spent a couple of hours exploring the area and history, and then settled into the lakeside bars and had an amazing and relaxed time amongst top lads.

There is trouble, but you can generally avoid it if you really want.  The only times I've been in the 'busier' England fan pubs I've tended to see something happen - whether that be Notts Forest / County fighting amongst themselves, Sheff U, Bolton or Derby trying to fight anyone, locals attacking the establishment with baseball bats and the like - but if you stay away from those pubs you'll stay out of trouble.

So yes, there are belters that go, but you can avoid them and have an amazing time with like-minded fans if you really want to.  It's great being able to go to places that you really wouldn't necessarily visit in a normal walk of life.

[Phileas Fogg]

It's a strange phenomenon that Brits love to go to 'Irish bars' or mock pubs when abroad. 

Why would you want to go to something similar to what you've just left?

Same as all those British style cafes selling fry ups that tourists frequent when in Spain. Really strange mentality.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Im still in Malta. The game was garbage but it was good fun. Make a holiday of it where one day you go to the football.