Atalanta v Everton

[spudski]

20 minutes ago, Sixtyseconds said:

Lordy there's a post to make one chuckle.

How did it get likes this Squire?

Go abroad to Holland, Italy, Eastern Europe ... I did and never took part in the looting and pillage but watched English youth soft in your book leg foreigner toughs and their police forces like an ungovernable force.

That Bobbobsuperbob may have been there too but guns did not stop English kiddies in Sardinia. The Eetalia carbs ran away where the WMP did not. 

Music.

Youth Culture.

Good and bad

Loved and imitated by Johnny Foreigner.

What happened?

It was not always like this.

Not at ALL.

I think it's completely different when the English national team or club teams arrive....I was talking about general week to week league football in other countries.

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Do you think that in part the lack of atmosphere is due to the design of some modern stadiums?

I think the design and acoustics of a pure bowl for example doesn't help. Some modern designs are decent though, both different to a bowl and hold atmosphere in quite well. Redeveloped or a new one built like an English ground.

Italia 90? Saw this vid after a quick google search England fans Italia 1990. Gonna watch it (before my time certainly;y), see what I make of it.

 

[Sixtyseconds]

15 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think it's completely different when the English national team or club teams arrive....I was talking about general week to week league football in other countries.

So few words for somebody who uses often many (interestingly).

Think why it has got like this here.

And why it is like that there.

Ingerlund was admired .... Once.

Italian Ultras admired the Kop.

Where did it all go?

Kids did not wake up one morning and boom they genetically changed into the sheeple you think the populace are. 

Summat happened.

 

[spudski]

For anyone rubbishing what I've said about restrictions being in place abroad just like here, if not more, may I suggest you read this to get a flavour...this just being Italy.

http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1153-october-2012/9080-the-difficulties-of-buying-a-ticket-in-italy

http://www.italymagazine.com/italy/football/hooligan-laws-working

And if you have time....this is a very good article on how deep football and criminal activity run deep in Italian football, as it does in many other countries abroad.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/01/nside-talys-ultras-the-dangerous-fans-who-control-the-game

 

[RUSSEL85]

Found this, thought it was amusing.

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, spudski said:

For anyone rubbishing what I've said about restrictions being in place abroad just like here, if not more, may I suggest you read this to get a flavour...this just being Italy.

http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1153-october-2012/9080-the-difficulties-of-buying-a-ticket-in-italy

http://www.italymagazine.com/italy/football/hooligan-laws-working

And if you have time....this is a very good article on how deep football and criminal activity run deep in Italian football, as it does in many other countries abroad.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/01/nside-talys-ultras-the-dangerous-fans-who-control-the-game

 

While i agree on restrictions being in place overseas too, I would say three key differences:

1) Have been in place for less time. Makes a difference. E.g. as I said in a past post, think it's definitely accelerated here the changing trend in the last 10 years especially. Definitely different to late 90s.

2) Stewards are still markedly more prone to turning a blind eye there. Admittedly only one game which is a tiny sample size, so I can't get a full picture either way.

3) Can only speak for Italy- and this doesn't just apply to football, but though it's more bureaucratic I would say it's less hi-tech surveillance, less sophisticated law based, it's lower tech. Yes it's more apparent- take troops at public monuments for example, but it's definitely lower level if more bureaucratic.

So I agree with you to a point.

[spudski]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

While i agree on restrictions being in place overseas too, I would say three key differences:

1) Have been in place for less time. Makes a difference. E.g. as I said in a past post, think it's definitely accelerated here the changing trend in the last 10 years especially. Definitely different to late 90s.

2) Stewards are still markedly more prone to turning a blind eye there. Admittedly only one game which is a tiny sample size, so I can't get a full picture either way.

3) Can only speak for Italy- and this doesn't just apply to football, but though it's more bureaucratic I would say it's less hi-tech surveillance, less sophisticated law based, it's lower tech. Yes it's more apparent- take troops at public monuments for example, but it's definitely lower level if more bureaucratic.

So I agree with you to a point.

Yes mate...as I said in previous posts...they have restrictions like us, it's whether they choose to implement them or not, that's the difference.

It's generally a free for all in certain parts of the stadia.

On some days though, they will have a purge and go over board.

The new regs installed have definitely had an influence on how many season tickets are sold.

[Red Army 75]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think the design and acoustics of a pure bowl for example doesn't help. Some modern designs are decent though, both different to a bowl and hold atmosphere in quite well. Redeveloped or a new one built like an English ground.

Italia 90? Saw this vid after a quick google search England fans Italia 1990. Gonna watch it (before my time certainly;y), see what I make of it.

 

Absolutely loved that World Cup . Bobby Robson , Gazza , David platts volley , Toto  schillaci , nessun dorma . Fantastic. Can't believe it was 27 years ago .

[pillred]

5 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Fair enough. I like to sit down, I don't drink, and not into pyro. But everyone's different. 

fair enough, but all of the things I said such as being able to stand (in certain areas) pyro etc would probably add a bit to the overall match day atmosphere, the drinking bit well that was for my benefit :laugh.

[SyntaxtheRed]

Only key differences between football here and abroad I see, is that you drink in the stands and that the tickets are cheaper (Germany). The atmosphere (no doubt helped by the drink and cheap tickets) is lead by key groups of fans who take in their drums and sing and chant the whole game. - They don't watch a lot of the football from what I could tell - maybe that's the difference.  

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think the design and acoustics of a pure bowl for example doesn't help. Some modern designs are decent though, both different to a bowl and hold atmosphere in quite well. Redeveloped or a new one built like an English ground.

Italia 90? Saw this vid after a quick google search England fans Italia 1990. Gonna watch it (before my time certainly;y), see what I make of it.

 

I was on that march .

The one and only time I wore union jack shorts was on that trip. Shameful look.

 

 

 

[Trueredsupporter]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

For anyone rubbishing what I've said about restrictions being in place abroad just like here, if not more, may I suggest you read this to get a flavour...this just being Italy.

http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1153-october-2012/9080-the-difficulties-of-buying-a-ticket-in-italy

http://www.italymagazine.com/italy/football/hooligan-laws-working

And if you have time....this is a very good article on how deep football and criminal activity run deep in Italian football, as it does in many other countries abroad.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/01/nside-talys-ultras-the-dangerous-fans-who-control-the-game

 

What are people missing? You get a ban if convicted. In England no conviction is needed. Been over there and when it kicks off the OB are bloody useless in comparison to England and its control and hi level surveillance .

[NOTBLUE]

22 hours ago, spudski said:

It's not football perse in this country that's the problem....it's the people.

Most Country's have the same restrictions as us, if not more....as an example, try buying a ticket for the footy in Italy nowadays.

We as a population have become passive, conformist, and scared to say or do anything that doesn't conform to what we are being told by anyone in 'authority'.

The Brits make me laugh...we sit around moaning about everything, do very little about it, and ask how high to jump when told.

Most 'foreigners' laugh at us and think we are weak as a nation and population. They really can't understand how we were once a 'Great Nation'.

The other side to it is...as a nation, many argue, fight, slag one another off, moan, shout, get drunk and take drugs, abuse one another, have no family values or respect etc, etc....done on a daily basis....yet conform at the footy.

It's the other way round in other countries. Society daily, is generally pleasant and respectful....yet come match day, they let off all their anger and frustrations in the Stadium, that leads to an 'atmosphere.

We're pretty much fecked up in this country.... ;-)

 

I call the people of this country, The Shoulder Shruggers,the people have become so boring it's unreal.

[22A]

Many restrictions in this country are attributed to H&S, but it's simply that people in authority are scared of some No win - no fee lawyer bringing a case against them.

Slipped on a stair in a stadium, or has your son hurt his hand playing conkers? No trouble we'll sue the stadium or school as the case may be.

[WTFiGO!?!]

I think we have what the authorities and corporate people that have taken Football over wanted.

A glossy, safe, marketable brand.

There's no surprise the atmosphere at games is so passive given it has become a luxury largely only afforded by the comfortable middle aged.

Right down to allocated seating the industry has become a consumer product, not a participatory event.

These other European and South American countries have not generally had their football flogged on the global market.  That makes us incomparable to most of them.  

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

8 hours ago, Robbored said:

Do you think that in part the lack of atmosphere is due to the design of some modern stadiums?

Too many bloody seats.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

21 hours ago, Cowshed said:

And law in Britain with its unique criminal justice and football disorder act are not. This gives Police in the UK powers that other European Police forces do not have. Some of these powers specifically for football fans have existed for thirty years.

Football fans here not only have been subjected to laws that do not exist elsewhere they have been subjected to intensive policing by police forces who implement, and at times misuse powers for longer.

If other nations fans were subjected to similar for thirty years they also would be pacified and supports gentrified.

I can only talk about such laws in France, basically if a situation occurs during a game the gendarmery can contact a regional consul for guidance and he can order a plan of action.

Several years ago I believe that Auxerre who were already relegated played Montpelier who needed a win to secure the championship and rioting Auxerre fans at one end of the ground totalling up 10,000 were ordered to be ejected before the game was allowed to carry on, this happened when huge reinforcements were called in and the teams were off of the pitch, this obviously took quite some time but the order was a) the game will be finished and b) the stand will be emptied and C) I don't care how long it takes.

Basically in France football does not require separate laws but special provisions can be enact by a regional consul.

[EnclosureSurge]

Worth watching the goals here (skip the first 45s or so) just for the commentator's "Mama, che gol!" after the second one flies in. (plus his comment after the third goes in: "Everton - in ginocchio!" Everton on their knees!) Bearing in mind this game wasn't played in Bergamo, Atalanta's home, but in Emilia Romana, miles away, the nerrazzuri fans do a good job. I have a Toffee-blue-nosed mate I play 5-a-side with who went: I'll ask him on Monday about the atmos.

re Italian games, I've been in the Samp end for a game. Excellent atmos. Plenty of standing and surging, so many flags the game is almost invisible (they were crap at the time so it mattered not). Been to see Verona, too, Curva Sud. Noisy, jumpy, lots of songs to English tunes (incl "You're going home in a f****** ambulance" - I couldn't work out the words, something about Chievo and the Flying Donkeys). Stood behind the goal when Milan won lo scudetto in 2004 when Shevchenko scored the winning goal to clinch the title against Totti's Roma. But the best was Napoli, in Serie C, play-off against Sambenedettese (exactly). 80,000, had to get there three hours before k-o just to get in. Bit like being down the Mem. Love a bit of Italian tifosi, even now the football is inferior to the 80s/90s when it was proper good.