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The first tranche of ten games ....


Leveller

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6 hours ago, Leveller said:

I don't know who first said "judge us after ten games", but that landmark has been reached.

So far so good - well done everyone.

And yes, I do realise what happened last season.

This is the key point, last season we had 20 points from first 11 games before international break, then came that woeful performance at Cardiff and it was downhill until Feb!

To match last season we have to win at Ipswich, a tough ask.

So achieved nothing yet, but the signs are better than last season because we were so reliant on Tammy's goals, overall the football is better when we press and play with tempo (which was missing for large periods last night) too.

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Just wondering if Tammy ever made dazzling runs on his own taking on loads of players to score all the goals last season? 

Nope Tammy had a poachers instinct to be in the right place at the right time. What those players need are players to put the ball in that position. 

Tammy was a joy, however his goals was hugely made up from team work. 

The players this year stuck though the bad run last year and formed a similar team bond like the season we won league one. Will we win this league no we won't I doubt we will be near the play offs but we are moving in the right direction. 

Just look at our subs bench is enough to see who ever came in is not going to weaken the first 11 on the pitch. 

Its like people are waiting to say "told you so"  last years first 10 games produced one or two good games with la lot of lucky ones. This year some of the play has been brilliant to watch.

 

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24 minutes ago, BigTone said:

I was firmly in the LJ out camp but said I would give him 10 games before making further comment on here.  I am happy to say that so far he has proved me wrong and long may it continue.

Many thousands of us were Tone

.When SL made his announcement that LJ was staying put whatever I was disparing. I really thought that he'd lost the plot and we were sinking.

We don't have the answers as supporters but SL sees what's going on at the club and is better placed than us to make these decisions. Credit to him for publicly backing his man and extinguishing all doubt .

However, bringing in Holden and promoting Jamie Mac seems to have done the trick.

There are a lot of lessons learned from last season that are standing us in good stead this one.

I like LJ and was disappointed that the story wasn't going to plan .

Credit to him as well , he's one tough bugger who fronted up to it all and never threw in the towel.

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10 games was the shout from a lot of people and I made a mental bookmark myself, admittedly fearing the worst, as my view of LJ last season was little secret. So to me it was a checkpoint on LJ's credibility: and on the basis of the football more so than simply the results, I would say he is redeemed and is back in credit.

But I'd almost like to avoid these symbolic judgements as the team is playing with momentum and belief so it's fun at the moment to take each game as it comes. So far it keeps exceeding expectation. The missing test for LJ is how he deals with adversity or losing a couple on the spin, but our strength in depth is far better.

The three transfer windows was always a cliché but we have just spent big money on quality players while retaining others, so that will always make a difference. In hindsight Tomlin + some promising youngsters a year ago was optimistic to say the least, this year we've invested seriously more in expectation than in hope.

 

In the meantime, this point about parallels with the start of last season is an easy one to make, but in my view is a rather simplistic bit of seeing similarity in stats. But even in those we've only lost 1 rather than 3 games, and if you include the cup games we've kept 6 rather than 3 clean sheets, and beaten 2 Premiership sides. 

The real difference this season is in the energy, and the manner of the football and the style of play, whether or not the results come (and by and large they have). Last season we were a one dimensional team, often struggling defensively (Rotherham away has no 'peer' this season) and relying on Tammy's early scoring run.

We were transitioning from gameplay largely designed for Kodjia channel runs, and were still experimenting with finding roles for Tomlin, Paterson and Freeman. The team was in no way settled week to week and we relied on just getting the ball to Tammy in the box and hope he'd do the rest. It wasn't sustainable football.

 

This season, the quality and variety of football is significantly better, we play a largely settled side in the league, and have a fitness level to dominate opponents. Last year our central midfield got the ball and was under pressure due to the lack of options and movement - releasing Freeman or thread the needle to Tammy.

Freeman was never instinctively a winger, so we often didn't spread the field and in turn we didn't have the players in the middle to do anything other than finish. Now our wingers roam either flank, Reid drifts in and out of the middle, so we can execute quick, incisive one-twos and bring our midfield up around the box too.

This has given us the tools to build sustained, fast attacking football and where last year we got deeper and deeper, this year we're pushed up and able to press. In short, we've achieved a pattern of play that lets us play quick short passing, where a feature of last season was how helpless our playmakers quickly became.

 

Add Reid into this, who even in some of his touches last night still looks sublime - most talented player in a City shirt since Jacki? - and it is all quite an upgrade!

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8 minutes ago, Olé said:

But I'd almost like to avoid these symbolic judgements as the team is playing with momentum and belief so it's fun at the moment to take each game as it comes. So far it keeps exceeding expectation. The missing test for LJ is how he deals with adversity or losing a couple on the spin, but our strength in depth is far better.

Would you not say that he showed how he deals with adversity last season? The man was up against it for the best part of four months and yet seems to have fixed that particular problem. 

Maybe I've misunderstood and what you're saying is can he now respond quickly to a two defeat run, if that's the case then yes we must wait to see what he and the squad have truly learned from last season.

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At the moment I'm enjoying the ride but, because of the similar start to last year and the horrendous following run of form I think it's still too early to judge .  To really see what, if anything, has change we almost need a spell of disappointing results . Obviously we don't want that but mentally,  last year , the team showed time after time they were mentally weak in giving up good leads.  I'm pretty sure that was due to too many changes and having a lot of young players trying to settle in. This year we look stronger, more organised , more focused , fitter even, and the coach looks to have learnt lessons across the board. The balance of changes Vs rotation looks right , and we seem to have the cover and quality in every position. 
As I say , when the next inevitable defeat comes we will see if the mindset has really improved (as I think it may have) . The run of games after the break will test us , Burton is a good start to a run of games Vs the top 2 and Sun'land away. I think we are capable of coming out of those game with 8 points. I also think that these games could shape our season , I hope the form continues and the I eventually come on here singing LJ's praises loudly , still a little early yet.

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6 hours ago, Olé said:

10 games was the shout from a lot of people and I made a mental bookmark myself, admittedly fearing the worst, as my view of LJ last season was little secret. So to me it was a checkpoint on LJ's credibility: and on the basis of the football more so than simply the results, I would say he is redeemed and is back in credit.

But I'd almost like to avoid these symbolic judgements as the team is playing with momentum and belief so it's fun at the moment to take each game as it comes. So far it keeps exceeding expectation. The missing test for LJ is how he deals with adversity or losing a couple on the spin, but our strength in depth is far better.

The three transfer windows was always a cliché but we have just spent big money on quality players while retaining others, so that will always make a difference. In hindsight Tomlin + some promising youngsters a year ago was optimistic to say the least, this year we've invested seriously more in expectation than in hope.

 

In the meantime, this point about parallels with the start of last season is an easy one to make, but in my view is a rather simplistic bit of seeing similarity in stats. But even in those we've only lost 1 rather than 3 games, and if you include the cup games we've kept 6 rather than 3 clean sheets, and beaten 2 Premiership sides. 

The real difference this season is in the energy, and the manner of the football and the style of play, whether or not the results come (and by and large they have). Last season we were a one dimensional team, often struggling defensively (Rotherham away has no 'peer' this season) and relying on Tammy's early scoring run.

We were transitioning from gameplay largely designed for Kodjia channel runs, and were still experimenting with finding roles for Tomlin, Paterson and Freeman. The team was in no way settled week to week and we relied on just getting the ball to Tammy in the box and hope he'd do the rest. It wasn't sustainable football.

 

This season, the quality and variety of football is significantly better, we play a largely settled side in the league, and have a fitness level to dominate opponents. Last year our central midfield got the ball and was under pressure due to the lack of options and movement - releasing Freeman or thread the needle to Tammy.

Freeman was never instinctively a winger, so we often didn't spread the field and in turn we didn't have the players in the middle to do anything other than finish. Now our wingers roam either flank, Reid drifts in and out of the middle, so we can execute quick, incisive one-twos and bring our midfield up around the box too.

This has given us the tools to build sustained, fast attacking football and where last year we got deeper and deeper, this year we're pushed up and able to press. In short, we've achieved a pattern of play that lets us play quick short passing, where a feature of last season was how helpless our playmakers quickly became.

 

Add Reid into this, who even in some of his touches last night still looks sublime - most talented player in a City shirt since Jacki? - and it is all quite an upgrade!

10

The first half last night definitely wasn't quick short passing and I don't understand why our tactic was for the defenders and midfielders to hit it over the top to the strikers (Flint often being the one distributing them). We were slow, predictable and the CM's wouldn't bring the ball forwards (something Brownhill often does but he was on the bench). 

I was surprised we didn't play our usual game in the first half especially since we were playing a poor Bolton side. But, we got our goal so, in a way, you could say it worked but it wasn't a pretty first half.

Anyway, 10 games unbeaten! Bring on Ipswich! :chant6ez:

 

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1 hour ago, CityLew said:

The first half last night definitely wasn't quick short passing and I don't understand why our tactic was for the defenders and midfielders to hit it over the top to the strikers (Flint often being the one distributing them).

I'm no coach but I did hear a pundit mention this recently.  When a team plays with a high line and squeezes out the space between midfield and defence, to counter this you need to play over the top to stretch the game.  Behind the defence is where the space is.

Defenders then become hesitant to play the high line, fearing the ball over the top (especially slower defenders like Wheater), and start dropping deeper.  This opens up space between the lines that Reid and Pato (and Taylor) are so good at exploiting.

The ball over the top appears desperate and hopeful but it is a tactic that stretches the pitch and ultimately let's us play the way we want to.

I love the fact that from goalkick our defenders now drop back and wide around the 6 yard line or penalty box.  Again opening up space for our midfielder to receive the ball and turn and set up an attack.

It make sense to me.  

 

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6 hours ago, CityLew said:

The first half last night definitely wasn't quick short passing and I don't understand why our tactic was for the defenders and midfielders to hit it over the top to the strikers (Flint often being the one distributing them). We were slow, predictable and the CM's wouldn't bring the ball forwards (something Brownhill often does but he was on the bench). 

I was surprised we didn't play our usual game in the first half especially since we were playing a poor Bolton side. But, we got our goal so, in a way, you could say it worked but it wasn't a pretty first half.

Anyway, 10 games unbeaten! Bring on Ipswich! :chant6ez:

 

They came with a game plan to stop us playing , denying us space and slowing the game down. Time wasting very early and conceding niggly fouls. All designed to disrupt the flow of the game. I do think we played into their hands a bit by pato playing left and COD right. They both cut inside contesting midfield. Bryan overlaps on the left but it's not BW natural game on the right. I do think the way COD played , he would of caused more problems against little but they only swapped over a few times. Bolton came to frustrate us though as did millwall , who were much better at it. 

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5 hours ago, Red Army Faction said:

I'm no coach but I did hear a pundit mention this recently.  When a team plays with a high line and squeezes out the space between midfield and defence, to counter this you need to play over the top to stretch the game.  Behind the defence is where the space is.

Defenders then become hesitant to play the high line, fearing the ball over the top (especially slower defenders like Wheater), and start dropping deeper.  This opens up space between the lines that Reid and Pato (and Taylor) are so good at exploiting.

The ball over the top appears desperate and hopeful but it is a tactic that stretches the pitch and ultimately let's us play the way we want to.

I love the fact that from goalkick our defenders now drop back and wide around the 6 yard line or penalty box.  Again opening up space for our midfielder to receive the ball and turn and set up an attack.

It make sense to me.  

 

Great minds!  Had similar conversation with the guy who sits next to me.

Had Pack and Smith gone forward with the ball, Pratley and Henry would’ve been delighted...it would’ve made it more congested, which was what they were trying to do.  They are both experienced at sitting (and just sitting) in front of their back four, denying space and making it difficult.  Pack and Smith aren’t players who will beat a man with a bit of skill.

I admired our patience at times, but we looked more threatening when the tempo was quickened by a more direct ball to a willing runner of Diedhiou (it’s worth spending 10 minutes just watching him) early in the play.  A bit of a gamble pass, yes, but it got Pratley and Henry running towards their own goal, which was great.  A lot of Diedhiou’s work is also unrelated to getting the ball, but allowing others to get it.

In the second half last night there was one bit of fantastic movement.  

Reid (left of centre) made an angled run to right, coming short 10 yards, to receive the ball.  CB half followed him, but not tight.

Diedhiou (right of centre) bent a run to go to where Reid had been, on the half turn, ready to explode into the channel. Other CB followed him.

Did either of our players get the ball? Nope.

But Pack on the ball (I think) had two choices, but chose a third, the ever-mobile Paterson, running in from the left side, from deep, in behind where Diedhiou had come from.

Unfortunately, Pato went a fraction early, and was flagged offside.

But to me it was a classic bit of ‘joined-up’ movement that shows a good understanding of the tactic and how the 442(ish) formation is still adequate in the modern age, especially the narrow way our wide-men play it, to allow full-backs the width when appropriate.

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12 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

They came with a game plan to stop us playing , denying us space and slowing the game down. Time wasting very early and conceding niggly fouls. All designed to disrupt the flow of the game. I do think we played into their hands a bit by pato playing left and COD right. They both cut inside contesting midfield. Bryan overlaps on the left but it's not BW natural game on the right. I do think the way COD played , he would of caused more problems against little but they only swapped over a few times. Bolton came to frustrate us though as did millwall , who were much better at it. 

True but that doesn't stop the fact that when there was space for our CM's to push forward with it a bit of space ahead of them they chose to pass sideways.

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7 hours ago, CityLew said:

True but that doesn't stop the fact that when there was space for our CM's to push forward with it a bit of space ahead of them they chose to pass sideways.

No offence but I really don't get this lack of  football understanding . I heard NTTDS on the radio going on about this a few weeks ago. Keeping the ball and passing it sideways isn't just a aimless act. We do it to move opposition players about so our forward plays can try to find pockets of space . We are trying to drag them out of position. If you watch forward players , attacking fullbacks etc, they will be making run after run to create space for that killer ball. It might create space for Bobby for example to drop in between the lines and drag a centre half out with him so there's space for pato etc to make a run in behind. It's not done for the fun of it . :blink:

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15 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

No offence but I really don't get this lack of  football understanding . I heard NTTDS on the radio going on about this a few weeks ago. Keeping the ball and passing it sideways isn't just a aimless act. We do it to move opposition players about so our forward plays can try to find pockets of space . We are trying to drag them out of position. If you watch forward players , attacking fullbacks etc, they will be making run after run to create space for that killer ball. It might create space for Bobby for example to drop in between the lines and drag a centre half out with him so there's space for pato etc to make a run in behind. It's not done for the fun of it . :blink:

I fully understand that.

My point wasn't that it's always bad to pass sideways and I'm not asking for our CM's to push forward and beat a man. My point was that there were times in the first half against Bolton where Smith or Pack (depending on which one had the ball) had the chance to exploit the gap between the opposition defence and midfield when there were no opposition players stopping them but they opted to play it sideways letting the opposition midfield get back into position.

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