... Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 Friend of mine (yes I do have them), is in the process of being sacked by his company. He has worked there years, and gets paid pretty well. Does a good job, always been well thought of. Until ............... A few months back, he was asked by his boss to meet him on company premises, after office hours. He hang around for his boss, and eventually he turned up, but would not say what it was all about. 30 minutes later, a young female employee also turned up. His boss asked the young lady into a side office. 5 minutes later, the boss asked him to join them. When he went into the side office, the young woman was in floods of tears, and he asked what the F had been going on. His boss just grinned at him in an inane fashion. Matey immediately left, saying it was totally inappropriate, having asked the woman if she was going to be OK to drive home. He told his boss he would complain, and said anything that he wanted to discuss would wait for another day. On the way out, he met two other staff, who he told what had happened, and asked them to be witnesses. Pretty bad behaviour, yes? The next day, his boss suspended him for what HE had done to the girl. He was reported to the board, and the suspension was confirmed. He has been told the girl has also been threatened, and told to say the incident was his fault. No one else was there in the room! He's going to lose his job, and his wife is not happy he has been linked with abusing female staff. 1) How can this happen? 2) How can he put the record straight before he ends up unemployed? tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipps69 Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 2 hours ago, Taxi for Johnson said: Friend of mine (yes I do have them), is in the process of being sacked by his company. He has worked there years, and gets paid pretty well. Does a good job, always been well thought of. Until ............... A few months back, he was asked by his boss to meet him on company premises, after office hours. He hang around for his boss, and eventually he turned up, but would not say what it was all about. 30 minutes later, a young female employee also turned up. His boss asked the young lady into a side office. 5 minutes later, the boss asked him to join them. When he went into the side office, the young woman was in floods of tears, and he asked what the F had been going on. His boss just grinned at him in an inane fashion. Matey immediately left, saying it was totally inappropriate, having asked the woman if she was going to be OK to drive home. He told his boss he would complain, and said anything that he wanted to discuss would wait for another day. On the way out, he met two other staff, who he told what had happened, and asked them to be witnesses. Pretty bad behaviour, yes? The next day, his boss suspended him for what HE had done to the girl. He was reported to the board, and the suspension was confirmed. He has been told the girl has also been threatened, and told to say the incident was his fault. No one else was there in the room! He's going to lose his job, and his wife is not happy he has been linked with abusing female staff. 1) How can this happen? 2) How can he put the record straight before he ends up unemployed? tfj No CCTV on the premises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 9, 2017 Report Share Posted October 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Taxi for Johnson said: Friend of mine (yes I do have them), is in the process of being sacked by his company. He has worked there years, and gets paid pretty well. Does a good job, always been well thought of. Until ............... A few months back, he was asked by his boss to meet him on company premises, after office hours. He hang around for his boss, and eventually he turned up, but would not say what it was all about. 30 minutes later, a young female employee also turned up. His boss asked the young lady into a side office. 5 minutes later, the boss asked him to join them. When he went into the side office, the young woman was in floods of tears, and he asked what the F had been going on. His boss just grinned at him in an inane fashion. Matey immediately left, saying it was totally inappropriate, having asked the woman if she was going to be OK to drive home. He told his boss he would complain, and said anything that he wanted to discuss would wait for another day. On the way out, he met two other staff, who he told what had happened, and asked them to be witnesses. Pretty bad behaviour, yes? The next day, his boss suspended him for what HE had done to the girl. He was reported to the board, and the suspension was confirmed. He has been told the girl has also been threatened, and told to say the incident was his fault. No one else was there in the room! He's going to lose his job, and his wife is not happy he has been linked with abusing female staff. 1) How can this happen? 2) How can he put the record straight before he ends up unemployed? tfj You sure he’s not lying to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 9 hours ago, Tipps69 said: No CCTV on the premises? Side office, he said. 8 hours ago, RedDave said: You sure he’s not lying to you? He could be I suppose, but I've known him for years, and he is a decent as the day is long, and no womaniser. Also, his boss emailed him and asked him to attend after hours ............ and what was the girl doing there? If he does get sacked and it goes to court, I assume the truth will come out. If he's the one lying then he deserves what he gets. Someone is telling outrageous lies. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwwtk Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 he should be going straight to the police, this isn't just about his job, he is being accused of some kind of assault by the sound of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 If he was emailed asking to be there, straight away there's the reason he was there. Won't prove what went on and where with who, but he was told to be there. If it's a serious allegation and the police are involved, emails will be checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 10, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 9 hours ago, RedDave said: You sure he’s not lying to you? That was my first instinct, but only TFJ can really judge what his friend is like The key is getting the lady to speak up, if he is genuinely in the clear he could take action against her for lying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipps69 Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 54 minutes ago, Taxi for Johnson said: Side office, he said. He could be I suppose, but I've known him for years, and he is a decent as the day is long, and no womaniser. Also, his boss emailed him and asked him to attend after hours ............ and what was the girl doing there? If he does get sacked and it goes to court, I assume the truth will come out. If he's the one lying then he deserves what he gets. Someone is telling outrageous lies. tfj Many modern offices have CCTV in every office, helps with insurance policies (supposedly) if every room is covered by cameras, saves expensive stuff being stored in unprotected rooms & then ‘accidentally’ disappearing (& fraudulent stolen items claims being put in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Taxi for Johnson said: Side office, he said. He could be I suppose, but I've known him for years, and he is a decent as the day is long, and no womaniser. Also, his boss emailed him and asked him to attend after hours ............ and what was the girl doing there? If he does get sacked and it goes to court, I assume the truth will come out. If he's the one lying then he deserves what he gets. Someone is telling outrageous lies. tfj It just seems so bizarre that the most plausible explanation is that your friend is lying. Agree with the post about him going to the police if not though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midlands Robin Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 If he's a member of a union then he can make a complaint through that channel. If it's a big enough organisation with its own HR department then he needs to make a formal complaint through them and then ask that it be investigated. The ultimate course of action is to take the matter to an employment tribunal. To do that he would need to first take legal advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 This sounds somewhat far fetched. Why would the lady in question not simply tell the 'truth' your mate would clearly support her so then it's 2v1. As mentioned CCTV? HR? There are laws on this sort of stuff. Police? Also, and this is important, if all of this is true, what possessed your mate's manager to set him up - are there other issues going on? IF this is true your mate needs to start to take action asap, if he ends up being dismissed with this being the reason, getting another job is going to be far from straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 54 minutes ago, ScottishRed said: This sounds somewhat far fetched. Why would the lady in question not simply tell the 'truth' your mate would clearly support her so then it's 2v1. As mentioned CCTV? HR? There are laws on this sort of stuff. Police? Also, and this is important, if all of this is true, what possessed your mate's manager to set him up - are there other issues going on? IF this is true your mate needs to start to take action asap, if he ends up being dismissed with this being the reason, getting another job is going to be far from straightforward. Far fetched and inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmersonsRed Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 The lady in question holds the key. Sounds rather odd though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 17 hours ago, Taxi for Johnson said: Friend of mine (yes I do have them), is in the process of being sacked by his company. He has worked there years, and gets paid pretty well. Does a good job, always been well thought of. Until ............... A few months back, he was asked by his boss to meet him on company premises, after office hours. He hang around for his boss, and eventually he turned up, but would not say what it was all about. 30 minutes later, a young female employee also turned up. His boss asked the young lady into a side office. 5 minutes later, the boss asked him to join them. When he went into the side office, the young woman was in floods of tears, and he asked what the F had been going on. His boss just grinned at him in an inane fashion. Matey immediately left, saying it was totally inappropriate, having asked the woman if she was going to be OK to drive home. He told his boss he would complain, and said anything that he wanted to discuss would wait for another day. On the way out, he met two other staff, who he told what had happened, and asked them to be witnesses. Pretty bad behaviour, yes? The next day, his boss suspended him for what HE had done to the girl. He was reported to the board, and the suspension was confirmed. He has been told the girl has also been threatened, and told to say the incident was his fault. No one else was there in the room! He's going to lose his job, and his wife is not happy he has been linked with abusing female staff. 1) How can this happen? 2) How can he put the record straight before he ends up unemployed? tfj it can't happen and if investigated properly by anyone won't happen, it would open up the firm to all kind of legal issues, I'd be on the phone to some sort of legal representation right away as well as getting witness statements etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Monkeh said: I'd be on the phone to some sort of legal representation right away as well as getting witness statements etc I'd start with Santa and the Easter Bunny. I would bring in the Tooth Fairy as a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanker Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 16 hours ago, RedDave said: You sure he’s not lying to you? Don't say that, I love a scary story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 How is he being inconsistent Tone - he has only said he didn't do anything wrong! I don't think false accusations are all that uncommon in company's. I've told him they would not dare sack him, as the truth would have to come out at an ET, and the company would have to explain why he was asked to be there after hours. I told him to make sure he has a hard copy of the email before it got deleted. The worst thing is that other people are happy to believe what his boss has alleged, a bit like some opinions on here echo. The complaint did not come from the woman - it came from his boss - the woman has remained silent - perhaps she does not want to lose her job too? You can argue that if she does not complain, then there is no case to answer. As for the motive of his boss - who knows! If there is CCTV then it's curtains for his boss - what a shame that would be. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Taxi for Johnson said: How is he being inconsistent Tone - he has only said he didn't do anything wrong! I don't think false accusations are all that uncommon in company's. I've told him they would not dare sack him, as the truth would have to come out at an ET, and the company would have to explain why he was asked to be there after hours. I told him to make sure he has a hard copy of the email before it got deleted. The worst thing is that other people are happy to believe what his boss has alleged, a bit like some opinions on here echo. The complaint did not come from the woman - it came from his boss - the woman has remained silent - perhaps she does not want to lose her job too? You can argue that if she does not complain, then there is no case to answer. As for the motive of his boss - who knows! If there is CCTV then it's curtains for his boss - what a shame that would be. tfj I don't believe what the boss has alleged but in equal measures I don't believe your friend. What has the woman to gain ? She has been forced to do what exactly ? She was in tears ? Why ? She is being forced to tell porkies ? Why? She is setting your friend up as well ? Why ? Your friend worked there for years, was well thought of and well paid. Now the BOSS is setting him up it seems, hence the inconsistency in the story. Something else has taken place. Sorry Unk but this is a load of bollycox. Nothing adds up on the info given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coach Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, BigTone said: I don't believe what the boss has alleged but in equal measures I don't believe your friend. What has the woman to gain ? She has been forced to do what exactly ? She was in tears ? Why ? She is being forced to tell porkies ? Why? She is setting your friend up as well ? Why ? Your friend worked there for years, was well thought of and well paid. Now the BOSS is setting him up it seems, hence the inconsistency in the story. Spmething else has taken place. Sorry Unk but this is a load of bollycox. Nothing adds up on the info given. From my experience, and dealings with similar matters/stories. @BigTone is correct, part of the story is left uncovered. As this makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 15 hours ago, Red_Wizard said: From my experience, and dealings with similar matters/stories. @BigTone is correct, part of the story is left uncovered. As this makes no sense. The sad fact is that the liars only get exposed in a court room under cross examination. Internally people can lie until their hearts content, but try doing that in front of someone else's barrister and its not so easy. This is why its a scary story IMHO. 15 hours ago, BigTone said: I don't believe what the boss has alleged but in equal measures I don't believe your friend. What has the woman to gain ? She has been forced to do what exactly ? She was in tears ? Why ? She is being forced to tell porkies ? Why? She is setting your friend up as well ? Why ? Your friend worked there for years, was well thought of and well paid. Now the BOSS is setting him up it seems, hence the inconsistency in the story. Something else has taken place. Sorry Unk but this is a load of bollycox. Nothing adds up on the info given. Yes, what was the girl doing there? This was instigated by the boss, not my mate. The boss asked him to be there - and he does have the email - and the boss asked the girl into the side room. The point is he does not know what went on inside the room for the 5 minutes, but he does know the boss sent a report to the board. He's also not seen this report, and they are in no hurry to give him sight of it. Evidence based this is not. It's also scary that he'll possibly have to be sacked and go to court before he gets to know what is in that report. That's months of worry for him, and lots of lost income. Same company sacked a senior worker a few years back for stealing, apparently. When they were asked to provide evidence, there was none, so I don't think they have too many scruples about fairness. Perhaps if a manager says it happened then that is all they think they need. Halloween has come early. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 All he can do is call the police Unk and let them investigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 11, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Someone posted something very similar a few months back, can anyone remember who that was? May be worth asking how that developed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted October 11, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 On 10/9/2017 at 21:09, Taxi for Johnson said: A few months back, he was asked by his boss to meet him on company premises, after office hours. He hang around for his boss, and eventually he turned up, but would not say what it was all about. This I find odd, would someone really meet someone without any inclination about why they were meeting? Surely you would ask first incase you needed to prep for the meeting? At worst surely the email had a subject in the email box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 What's the female employee side of the story? She knows why she was upset and crying. That said she may be afraid to whistle blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARJ Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Taxi for Johnson said: The sad fact is that the liars only get exposed in a court room under cross examination. Internally people can lie until their hearts content, but try doing that in front of someone else's barrister and its not so easy. This is why its a scary story IMHO. Yes, what was the girl doing there? This was instigated by the boss, not my mate. The boss asked him to be there - and he does have the email - and the boss asked the girl into the side room. The point is he does not know what went on inside the room for the 5 minutes, but he does know the boss sent a report to the board. He's also not seen this report, and they are in no hurry to give him sight of it. Evidence based this is not. It's also scary that he'll possibly have to be sacked and go to court before he gets to know what is in that report. That's months of worry for him, and lots of lost income. Same company sacked a senior worker a few years back for stealing, apparently. When they were asked to provide evidence, there was none, so I don't think they have too many scruples about fairness. Perhaps if a manager says it happened then that is all they think they need. Halloween has come early. tfj Dealt with similar situations in businesses big and small. The story has lots of holes and uncertainties, but I'd advise your friend does the following: 1.) 100% keep the email of the boss asking him to stay late. Keep a hard copy and also forward a copy to HR so someone else 'legitimate' has it and can act as a 'communication' witness i.e. to say said communication did exist. 2.) I refuse to believe the office has zero CCTV whatsoever. Even if the footage shows nothing incriminating it will help his case i.e. showing the boss there with another woman. Obtain as much CCTV evidence as possible. 3.) You say he asked 2 co-workers to be witnesses after the event happened. It's important he gets these people to confirm this in writing or to HR, proving he at least made an effort as knew something was wrong. 4.) He needs to get the woman in question to testify that he did indeed ask her if she was okay and to confirm he was not in any wrongdoing. Obviously she can lie under oath so this is a contentious issue. 5.) If he hasn't done so already, report this incident to the police. It may look a bit 'after the fact' now, but at least he's made the effort. The above should help his case greatly. It will certainly go to court but with the above points covered (especially points 1 & 3), he should be okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 6 hours ago, phantom said: Someone posted something very similar a few months back, can anyone remember who that was? May be worth asking how that developed There was a post about verbal abuse, which I started. People lost interest, understandably, but I do know the outcome. The chap kept his job. Lost quite a lot of pay, and there was a lot of stress. Ultimately he was vindicated, for the simple reason he had done nothing wrong, and its very, very hard to prove anything with zero proper evidence. That was a fairly small company - less than 100 staff. The scary story here involved a company who is a household name - 1,000's of employees. The common thread is being innocent, but having serious allegations made against you. That is scary as it seems its not that uncommon, and anyone who is innocent could be affected if they cross the path of a liar. From my knowledge of such dodgey dealings, very often the liars back down at the last minute. How many cases are settles 'on the court steps', or in 'out of court settlements'? This company will have a BIG HR department, and you would think they would say 'lets see the hard evidence', not just what someone is asserting happened. The secondary issue is company's need to believe and trust their managers. Surely if a manager says it is true, then it must be ................... And yes, this man is a member of a BIG trade union. They seem to be waiting for him to be sacked before they do anything. Serves him right for voting Labour? tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 6 hours ago, Robbored said: What's the female employee side of the story? She knows why she was upset and crying. That said she may be afraid to whistle blow. 'Whistle blow' = sign your own P45?? tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, Taxi for Johnson said: 'Whistle blow' = sign your own P45?? After all the baby deaths in Bristol the NHS urged staff to whistle blow and if a colleague was disciplined for anything "dodgy" and you were aware of said dodgy activity but failed to report it you yourself would be disciplined. it created a culture of suspicion and downright paranoia. I knew a colleague who rather stupidly told another colleague that she regularly added mileage onto her travel claims and before she knew it she was suspended. It led to a police enguiry and she was convicted of fraud and sentenced to so many community hours and of course sacked. Consequently all community stall were issued with mileage charts to various destinations. That of course was useless to CPNs like myself who visited various places all over the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Robbored said: After all the baby deaths in Bristol the NHS urged staff to whistle blow and if a colleague was disciplined for anything "dodgy" and you were aware of said dodgy activity but failed to report it you yourself would be disciplined. it created a culture of suspicion and downright paranoia. I knew a colleague who rather stupidly told another colleague that she regularly added mileage onto her travel claims and before she knew it she was suspended. It led to a police enguiry and she was convicted of fraud and sentenced to so many community hours and of course sacked. Consequently all community stall were issued with mileage charts to various destinations. That of course was useless to CPNs like myself who visited various places all over the area. Where does 'right and wrong' and common sense fit into all this?? Depressing. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 I appreciate there was no CCTV in the side room but wouldn't your friend have the proof that he was in the main office while the boss and the lady went into said side room via CCTV? I would have thought this would be more than enough to prove an element of fabrication on the bosses part. I would have thought the boss summoning him into the room would also be visible? I run a team of engineers in my role and one of them was due to be dismissed for constantly awful performance over a long period of time for which he had verbal and written warnings with HR present. What I found was that once dismissal was mentioned, it was taken from mine and my Managers hands and outside powers investigated and spoke to all involved. You can't just sack someone nowadays! I would imagine the lady in question will be questioned and, unless she is under pressure not to tell the truth, the real events will come out. These people who investigate are very good at what they do and will get to the bottom of this I should think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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