steviestevieneville Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 5 hours ago, Major Isewater said: Clough knows our midfield lacks quality, he praised our attack and our defence but said in the media that with one or two creative midfielders our forwards would score more . Fortunately LJ knows it as well .Hopefully we can find a quality midfielder in the January window so we can push on . I'm not knocking our lads who have done brilliantly but Pato is not consistent enough for me whilst being undoubtedly talented. Brownhill , like the Emperor's new clothes , it's popular to say what a fantastic player he is but I'm afraid I still don't see it . Pack , lovely lad, slows the play down too much for me and will he ever score ? Would like to see Hegeler get a run of games in Pack's position . Smith , destroyer , good at this level but again going forward could do better . Can these lads up their game ? It's all about opinions of course . It shows that we aren't too far off . Agree with a lot of this major. Imo Korey is a out and out defensive midfielder. Breaks up play well but needs to give it quicker, dwells on the ball too much. Hasn't a creative streak. Josh I think will be a very good player , gets around the pitch well and has more quality on the ball than Korey but still has a lot too learn . Pack is currently our most creative CM especially at home. Would love to see Jens given a chance though, what we've seen of him he has undoubted quality and good vision but needs to play at pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldlandReddies Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 6 hours ago, myol'man said: I think it would have been worth switching Leko to the left wing for the last 5 minutes, jink jink , cut inside, shoot, booooooooooom! Save that for Saturday. He'll run old tippy toes ragged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said: Save that for Saturday. He'll run old tippy toes ragged. Leto could destroy the painfully slow Ayling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WECANDO Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 With 15 to go, why not try something different and use Lekos pace and control upfront I.e. centre forward. Quick balls either side of their centre backs for him to run onto. His pace would have taken him clear. Don't always have to stick Flint up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 29 minutes ago, WECANDO said: With 15 to go, why not try something different and use Lekos pace and control upfront I.e. centre forward. Quick balls either side of their centre backs for him to run onto. His pace would have taken him clear. Don't always have to stick Flint up there. Especially if a couple of their back four are on yellows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 4 hours ago, spudski said: Is he any slower than Pack? Tbh...I think it's his languid style that makes people think he's slow. He covers ground quickly and has a very quick eye for a pass. It's not his pace, so much as his reaction time and urgency. In fairness, because it's a new style to him, he probably lacks the fitness to play in the middle of our current style too. Dont get me wrong, I like him as a player, I'm just looking at why he now appears to be regarded as more of a defensive option, than a midfield one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 7 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: Did he? He was just as wasteful if not more so. I dont think so he looked threatening at least. Elliason hardly had a kick. Anyway i dont think we'd have scored if we played that game 3times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 24 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: I dont think so he looked threatening at least. Elliason hardly had a kick. Anyway i dont think we'd have scored if we played that game 3times over. I had an excellent view of Leko as I was in the lower Lansdown nearer our 6 yard box. He really didn’t have much impact. I agree though, frustrating game. We need to find a way to break these teams down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original OTIB Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Kept coming deep to get the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheshire_red Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Horses for courses. Against a Burton who we knew would throw 10 behind the ball, would it have been better to push Reid in to an attacking central midfield role and told to roam wherever there was space and put Taylor up front with Fammy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 17 hours ago, Red Army 75 said: Oh look ******* back . Why don't u **** off . Really pissing me off . Were you on the M4 last Thursday? Wow. Lot of anger in there ............. tfj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 11 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: It's not his pace, so much as his reaction time and urgency. In fairness, because it's a new style to him, he probably lacks the fitness to play in the middle of our current style too. Dont get me wrong, I like him as a player, I'm just looking at why he now appears to be regarded as more of a defensive option, than a midfield one. Who knows mate...until we play him, we'll never know. As for fitness...all our players in the squad will be fit enough, they have to be, it's a squad game. They will be pushed every day in training, so that they can fit in seamlessly. Take Magners for example....doesn't play regularly for us, but can play with no problems in World Cup qualifying games. At this time of the season they'll all be on the button imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 16 minutes ago, Taxi for Johnson said: Were you on the M4 last Thursday? Wow. Lot of anger in there ............. tfj Oh look. Another one who constantly chats shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 18 hours ago, Taxi for Johnson said: Stop this - we are on an amazing run, and fourth in the table. GET OFF LEE JOHNSON'S BACK. tfj But expectations have been raised following our wonderful start, and people now expect 3 points from Burton. I don’t really see anyone having a go a johnson, just suggesting where we could improve by using our current personnel differently or where we might be deficient. Perhaps, read back the comments. I think it’s fair to say that following a very good window, the only gap we gave is a CM at the next level up. They don’t come cheap, so we may have to go with what we’ve got. In the recent window we wouldn’t have exactly been one of those clubs in the forefront of a player and his agent’s eyes. We might be in January, who knows! 18 hours ago, Red Army 75 said: 100% right . We've come along way . Only losing once is an amazing achievement. As for centre midfield we definitely need a signing in that department. And that's not knocking the lads who have been outstanding IMO . Just need something different. But as you say it's a balancing act . Fridays game reminded me of watching England trying to break down a poor international side . It's never easy. Very true. Wasn’t there on Friday, but the two home games we struggled were Bolton and Millwall, both teams put men behind the ball and played long. Assume Burton were similar? In the Bolton and Millwall games we actually looked better when we went back to front a little bit quicker. Diedhiou and Reid making runs ‘inside to out’ to exploit space in the channels between CB and FB, and the likes of Flint and Baker hitting them early. Not hoofs upfield but longer passing. It allowed us to get into their half quickly and meant there midfield Protection was now back-pedalling, with ours trying to get in front. It’s either that, or patient move side to side, wing to wing, but you have got to get in behind them at some point. I watched the highlights last night, Reid had a couple of One-on-ones that he might have scored from (plus the disallowed goal), that would’ve changed the game. You win some, you draw some. Not the end of the world. What would’ve been, was Sordell scoring late on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: But expectations have been raised following our wonderful start, and people now expect 3 points from Burton. I don’t really see anyone having a go a johnson, just suggesting where we could improve by using our current personnel differently or where we might be deficient. Perhaps, read back the comments. I think it’s fair to say that following a very good window, the only gap we gave is a CM at the next level up. They don’t come cheap, so we may have to go with what we’ve got. In the recent window we wouldn’t have exactly been one of those clubs in the forefront of a player and his agent’s eyes. We might be in January, who knows! Very true. Wasn’t there on Friday, but the two home games we struggled were Bolton and Millwall, both teams put men behind the ball and played long. Assume Burton were similar? In the Bolton and Millwall games we actually looked better when we went back to front a little bit quicker. Diedhiou and Reid making runs ‘inside to out’ to exploit space in the channels between CB and FB, and the likes of Flint and Baker hitting them early. Not hoofs upfield but longer passing. It allowed us to get into their half quickly and meant there midfield Protection was now back-pedalling, with ours trying to get in front. It’s either that, or patient move side to side, wing to wing, but you have got to get in behind them at some point. I watched the highlights last night, Reid had a couple of One-on-ones that he might have scored from (plus the disallowed goal), that would’ve changed the game. You win some, you draw some. Not the end of the world. What would’ve been, was Sordell scoring late on. That would of been the ultimate smash and grab . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Thatch35 said: Delighted. But again your missing a chance to discuss. Most people again missed the point of my post. Why change what has been working, ie a fast passing game and change to lumping it up to someone like Flint? Seems totally pointless to me and against everything LJ is trying to put in place regarding a pattern of play. Well, I think you do need a plan B. Sometimes teams just won't be broken down by incisive passing and you have to win ugly. Actually, ugly isn't the right word. I find it immensely satisfying to see a powerful header from a cross. Some of my favourite players have been big forwards - Adebola was always one I particularly enjoyed watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said: Well, I think you do need a plan B. Sometimes teams just won't be broken down by incisive passing and you have to win ugly. Actually, ugly isn't the right word. I find it immensely satisfying to see a powerful header from a cross. Some of my favourite players have been big forwards - Adebola was always one I particularly enjoyed watching. Still think Trevor Morgan’s header v Chester is one of the best I’ve seen at AG. Head it back from where it came from...perfect. I like seeing those big target men with good touch and appreciation of movement around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Hegeler over Pack? Ok, next joke please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said: Hegeler over Pack? Ok, next joke please. I doubt you'd get it so I shan't bother . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Just now, Major Isewater said: I doubt you'd get it so I shan't bother . Probably just as poor as the Hegeler over Pack one tbf. There's a reason why he has been chosen as a CB backup and not pushing for a midfield place. If Pack were to be replaced it would need to be with a Hourihane type player as it was alluded to before, not Hegeler... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said: Probably just as poor as the Hegeler over Pack one tbf. There's a reason why he has been chosen as a CB backup and not pushing for a midfield place. If Pack were to be replaced it would need to be with a Hourihane type player as it was alluded to before, not Hegeler... Hegeler is a quality player. I actually think if we were in the Premier League he would be higher up the pecking order for midfield. A division up and they have so much more time on the ball in midfield, which would suit him perfectly. But in the Championship there is a tendency to close down the midfield quicker. Simply in ability terms- ignoring the system we play and how they are suited- Hegeler is among our best for midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 16/10/2017 at 13:31, Major Isewater said: Clough knows our midfield lacks quality, he praised our attack and our defence but said in the media that with one or two creative midfielders our forwards would score more . Fortunately LJ knows it as well .Hopefully we can find a quality midfielder in the January window so we can push on . I'm not knocking our lads who have done brilliantly but Pato is not consistent enough for me whilst being undoubtedly talented. Brownhill , like the Emperor's new clothes , it's popular to say what a fantastic player he is but I'm afraid I still don't see it . Pack , lovely lad, slows the play down too much for me and will he ever score ? Would like to see Hegeler get a run of games in Pack's position . Smith , destroyer , good at this level but again going forward could do better . Can these lads up their game ? It's all about opinions of course . It shows that we aren't too far off . You pretty close to how it is I reckon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 49 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said: Probably just as poor as the Hegeler over Pack one tbf. There's a reason why he has been chosen as a CB backup and not pushing for a midfield place. If Pack were to be replaced it would need to be with a Hourihane type player as it was alluded to before, not Hegeler... You presumably know the reason why Hegeler has not had a run of games in midfield ? The lad has a pedigree . I don't see that Pack is better than him in midfield. They are not the same player but share many attributes. l I just have doubts over Pack . I feel he has reached his limit and I will him on but he disappoints too often . His shooting is appalling . Hegeler may just have that bit of extra quality but we won't see it unless he gets a chance . If you had the pick of the two, on paper , you'd go for Hegeler every time . We know we need a bit of nous in there and I'm certain that JH can be the man. I find it odd that last season LJ said that he would build the team around Hegeler and now the lad can't even get a regular start . I appreciate the excellent start to our campaign and this is just a reply to the lack of goalscoring chances against Burton not a criticism of MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Hegeler is a quality player. I actually think if we were in the Premier League he would be higher up the pecking order for midfield. A division up and they have so much more time on the ball in midfield, which would suit him perfectly. But in the Championship there is a tendency to close down the midfield quicker. Simply in ability terms- ignoring the system we play and how they are suited- Hegeler is among our best for midfield. What are you basing Hegeler being a quality player on? Because the games that I have seen whilst he is playing in midfield he wouldn't improve it as we are at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Was it LJ or JH himself that said Jens was a centre half? I can't remember. If he's finally up to the speed / fitness required of a midfielder in this league then let him loose I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: You presumably know the reason why Hegeler has not had a run of games in midfield ? The lad has a pedigree . I don't see that Pack is better than him in midfield. They are not the same player but share many attributes. l I just have doubts over Pack . I feel he has reached his limit and I will him on but he disappoints too often . His shooting is appalling . Hegeler may just have that bit of extra quality but we won't see it unless he gets a chance . If you had the pick of the two, on paper , you'd go for Hegeler every time . We know we need a bit of nous in there and I'm certain that JH can be the man. I find it odd that last season LJ said that he would build the team around Hegeler and now the lad can't even get a regular start . I appreciate the excellent start to our campaign and this is just a reply to the lack of goalscoring chances against Burton not a criticism of MP. That means absolutely nothing, there are many players who have had "Pedigree" come to us over the years and be terrible... A certain Bolton player springs to mind. In terms of shooting, I haven't seen Hegeler have many shots in the games he's played. The same question marks you have over Pack could be applied to any of our midfield (with the exception of Brownhill for shooting) in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said: That means absolutely nothing, there are many players who have had "Pedigree" come to us over the years and be terrible... A certain Bolton player springs to mind. It does. Just because Nicky Hunt was a poor signing doesn't mean you ignore the past pedigree of a player, it's such a silly point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted October 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said: That means absolutely nothing, there are many players who have had "Pedigree" come to us over the years and be terrible... A certain Bolton player springs to mind. In terms of shooting, I haven't seen Hegeler have many shots in the games he's played. The same question marks you have over Pack could be applied to any of our midfield (with the exception of Brownhill for shooting) in that case. It means that during his professional career he's had better technical training and played with and against better players than Pack has . It could just make the difference between a draw and a win. Pack has had many more starts in midfield then Hegeler and we all love him but I don't see him improving . It's a Luke Freeman situation all over again for me . We all waited for him to deliver but in vain. Good players that we need to improve on if we want to move up the pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 27 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: It means that during his professional career he's had better technical training and played with and against better players than Pack has . It could just make the difference between a draw and a win. Pack has had many more starts in midfield then Hegeler and we all love him but I don't see him improving . It's a Luke Freeman situation all over again for me . We all waited for him to deliver but in vain. Good players that we need to improve on if we want to move up the pyramid. So have a lot of players at this level doesn't mean they are going to be better. I see you glossed over my point about it applying to our other midfielders too. So by definition you are saying that both Smith and Pack need to be replaced to move up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UREDS_91 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 36 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: It does. Just because Nicky Hunt was a poor signing doesn't mean you ignore the past pedigree of a player, it's such a silly point of view. I could argue that just because you assume that due to this "pedigree" a player is automatically going to be great is also a "silly point of view". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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