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1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Hegeler was poor and totally at fault for the 3rd goal which is the point at which LJ had thankfully seen enough.

I think you might need to revisit the red cards, yes he was wrong to confront the player but the Leeds player looks to me to have clearly nutted him, the photo on the red card thread clearly shows contact, should have been a red and a yellow.

Taylor clearly put his head in first.

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1 minute ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

?

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that doesn't show Taylor getting up and sticking his head in the guys face. which is what he did. you know a still isnt in any way a fair representation of the events.

The Leeds player responded and that's the red. it was stupid for Taylor to respond to the trip like that. Leeds game plan was to get in our faces and ruffle feathers and it worked annoyingly well.

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1 minute ago, Antman said:

that doesn't show Taylor getting up and sticking his head in the guys face. which is what he did. you know a still isnt in any way a fair representation of the events.

The Leeds player responded and that's the red. it was stupid for Taylor to respond to the trip like that. Leeds game plan was to get in our faces and ruffle feathers and it worked annoyingly well.

I agree that Taylor was wrong to confront him and was deserving of a yellow and yes got in the guys face but the only head movement came from the Leeds player, I think it is very clear, As I said on another thread my immediate reaction was Taylor was play acting but on multiple views it is clear that the only head movement is from the Leeds player.

 

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14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Where do we start?  Bad day at the office.  I rarely criticise a starting eleven and having just heard LJ on BBCRB, I won’t start now.  I could see the logic, maybe if not what I’d have done personally.

Usual 6/10 is a player deserving of his wages. I’m gonna be tough on myself and only go full marks.

Fielding 5/10 - hesitant today.  The lines between him and our back two were very inconsistent.  Couple of okay saves.  Not gonna blame him for goals.

Wright 5/10 - Leeds so well prep’d, never gave him any time on ball, exploiting his weakness on the ball.  Did ok defensively, but the lack of capability with it means we are stifled at home.  Might’ve shaded a 6 if If was being generous.

Flint 4/10 - don’t think he dealt well with Losoggo at all.  Leeds played everything into him and picked up pieces around him.  For first goal, don’t know why he tried to do a block tackle / clearance when he could’ve cleared it down the pitch without needing to clear it into the player?  Second goal, why not just pass it away for a corner, the route back to Fielding wasn’t there.  Sliding it back was the risk...we paid for it.

Hegeler 5/10 - pretty similar as Flint, but I don’t think he was involved in their goals like Flint was.  Came into midfield with the ball a couple of times.  Don’t believe the radio for those who said Flint won everything and Hegeler didn’t....that’s conscious bias imho.

Leko 4/10 - two good runs, great.  The rest...my one-off opinion (first time i’ve seen him live) is that he looks like he doesn’t have a football brain.  Very poor when we don’t have the ball, makes wrong decisions.  Was crocked early on, was that to do with it.  Won’t tar future performances with my view of this one, but looks like the kid who has had it too easy at youth football.

O’Dowda - 4/10 - what a chance to impose his place in the first team.  Wasted.  Said it before, gives away cheap fouls, Ayling sucked him in two or three times.

Pack - 3/10 - seemed to be treading water out there.  Not been the player I rate over the last couple of games.  Vieira won everything, chased and harried him into going sideways, backwards or giving it away.  Forward passes rarely found his teammates.

Brownhill - 6/10 - 5 first half, 7 second.  Worked his socks off.  Not quite his day on the ball, but tried to drive us on second half.  Probably ahead of Pack in terms of selection now.

Reid - 4/10 - pretty anonymous today, but given so little service.

Woodrow - 5/10 - very little service, but in our better spell in last 15 minutes of first half, he was the catalyst. 

Subs:

Taylor - 0/10 - happy to be proved wrong by the camera, but he was 100% culpable for the butt, his momentum was towards the player (who cynically tripped him - no more),  he was looking for it.  If he’s broken his nose, then I think he’s only got himself to blame.  It will heal during his 3-game ban.  Unprofessional.  LJ has said he’ll back him on BBCRB, but from the angle I saw it at, there’s Little to defend.

Diedhiou - 5/10 - little service, should’ve scored.

Magnüsson - not rated

 

The hindsight view:

Vyner at RB, Wright alongside Flint.

Diedhiou instead of Woodrow (but surely the selection was with Tuesday in mind)

 

The squad view:

Its funny how we’ve thought we have good depth, but one poor performance challenges that thought.  I think today, those of you who question what Smith brings, may see what we miss when he’s not there.

Interesting that you've rated Hegeler better then Flint, which I agree with.

Both were terrible, IMO, but how Flint gets away with some of his performances is beyond me.  A good first ball winner, often a threat from set pieces but can't handle people running at him.

The sooner we get Baker and Wright back in the middle and a reliable back up for Pisano that LJ trusts the better...

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14 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Hegeler was poor and totally at fault for the 3rd goal which is the point at which LJ had thankfully seen enough.

I think you might need to revisit the red cards, yes he was wrong to confront the player but the Leeds player looks to me to have clearly nutted him, the photo on the red card thread clearly shows contact, should have been a red and a yellow.

Couldn’t see whose job it was to track losoggo for his header.  If Hegeler, then fair enough.

I do think that too many on here just post pre-conceived views of players without watching the match orvthe individual performances.  Hegeler wasn’t great today, but he wasn’t shit, nor was he worse than Flint....but he’s a an easy target, languid style, not a tough-style CB (like our Aden), so let’s just give him 1/10 and say he’s shit.  Not having a go at you, just some on here probably haven;t even watched today.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Couldn’t see whose job it was to track losoggo for his header.  If Hegeler, then fair enough.

I do think that too many on here just post pre-conceived views of players without watching the match orvthe individual performances.  Hegeler wasn’t great today, but he wasn’t shit, nor was he worse than Flint....but he’s a an easy target, languid style, not a tough-style CB (like our Aden), so let’s just give him 1/10 and say he’s shit.  Not having a go at you, just some on here probably haven;t even watched today.

Dave, I gave him a 1 and thought he was lucky to get that. I've always liked him as a player and defended him at times but I really did think he was awful today hence my score. Nothing to do with preconceptions, just an honest opinion of a terrible performance by Jens.

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Couldn’t see whose job it was to track losoggo for his header.  If Hegeler, then fair enough.

I do think that too many on here just post pre-conceived views of players without watching the match orvthe individual performances.  Hegeler wasn’t great today, but he wasn’t shit, nor was he worse than Flint....but he’s a an easy target, languid style, not a tough-style CB (like our Aden), so let’s just give him 1/10 and say he’s shit.  Not having a go at you, just some on here probably haven;t even watched today.

Because no matter how many times he might have played there he is not a CB and that is not his fault if the manager chooses him to play there ahead of Magnússon when there is an injury.

In a way we were lucky that LJ never played him in CM with Pack, can you imagine how slow that would have been?.

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3 minutes ago, Calculus said:

Interesting that you've rated Hegeler better then Flint, which I agree with.

Both were terrible, IMO, but how Flint gets away with some of his performances is beyond me.  A good first ball winner, often a threat from set pieces but can't handle people running at him.

The sooner we get Baker and Wright back in the middle and a reliable back up for Pisano that LJ trusts the better...

Terrible is an interesting word, but strong for my liking.

Would like to see Baker and Wright, Pisano and Bryan.  That imho is our best defensive back 4.  Flint’s goals....darn them.  Would be an easier decision without them.

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My ratings for today.

Bryan and Brownhill - just about acceptable.

Everyone else - completely shite.

Leeds were a reasonable side, they might have been very good but we don't know because we didn't require them to actually do anything to get three goals.

Hegeler should never be picked at centre half, we'd already established that but apparently LJ forgot.  Bailey Wright is a proper centre half so we play him right back, where he's awful, and we play Hegeler centre half, where he's awful.  Makes no sense whatsoever.  At the very least swap them over so your only out of position player is at full back, but why not use Vyner or Magnússon?  Boggles the mind (and yes I heard his explanation on the radio and it was a load of horse shit, he should have held his hands up to poor judgement there and moved on).

Fielding's kicking is actually getting worse and what he was doing for the second is beyond me, he should have smothered that.  

Pack continues to be somewhat useful off the ball and a complete plodder on it.  Can someone take him aside and ban him from shooting from outside the box please?

Woodrow and Reid were both ineffective, though with no service to speak of.

Leko looked like Eliasson did last time, an inexperienced winger in front of a centre half playing full back.  No support on the overlap, no support from a central midfielder (something we miss without Korey) and consequently not enough confidence to grab the ball and run at them.

O'Dowda lost the ball more times than I could count despite having Bryan around.  He put in a decent cross to Reid for what was the only chance of the game but we really missed Patterson's ball retention there.

Flint was below average for him.  Unassured at the back and no threat going forward.

We can't have nine players out of eleven failing to turn up to any game, let alone one where the manager has picked the wrong side and the opponents are not awful.  No need to panic, it's only one game, and not one I thought we'd win as soon as I saw the teamsheet - I think it's best to draw a line under the whole mess and move on. 

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I think all the low marks for Flint are a bit harsh, Hegeler was so bad that Flint was effectively playing in central defense on his own today. Im not saying he played well, obviously most players were poor today, but the big man wasnt as bad as some scores are saying.

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Couldn’t see whose job it was to track losoggo for his header.  If Hegeler, then fair enough.

I do think that too many on here just post pre-conceived views of players without watching the match orvthe individual performances.  Hegeler wasn’t great today, but he wasn’t shit, nor was he worse than Flint....but he’s a an easy target, languid style, not a tough-style CB (like our Aden), so let’s just give him 1/10 and say he’s shit.  Not having a go at you, just some on here probably haven;t even watched today.

watch Hegelar for the first (?) one, the ball passes him by and he makes no attempt to get involved, strolling back. that was poor he did leave Flint exposed for that, but Flint amplified things by making a grand fluff of everything.

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4 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Dave, I gave him a 1 and thought he was lucky to get that. I've always liked him as a player and defended him at times but I really did think he was awful today hence my score. Nothing to do with preconceptions, just an honest opinion of a terrible performance by Jens.

That is perfectly fair enough.  I will now check what you gave Flint!

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3 minutes ago, Antman said:

watch Hegelar for the first (?) one, the ball passes him by and he makes no attempt to get involved, strolling back. that was poor he did leave Flint exposed for that, but Flint amplified things by making a grand fluff of everything.

Will watch the highlights....my views are from one view only....happy to be wrong.

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3 minutes ago, Nibor said:

My ratings for today.

Bryan and Brownhill - just about acceptable.

Everyone else - completely shite.

Leeds were a reasonable side, they might have been very good but we don't know because we didn't require them to actually do anything to get three goals.

Hegeler should never be picked at centre half, we'd already established that but apparently LJ forgot.  Bailey Wright is a proper centre half so we play him right back, where he's awful, and we play Hegeler centre half, where he's awful.  Makes no sense whatsoever.  At the very least swap them over so your only out of position player is at full back, but why not use Vyner or Magnússon?  Boggles the mind (and yes I heard his explanation on the radio and it was a load of horse shit, he should have held his hands up to poor judgement there and moved on).

Fielding's kicking is actually getting worse and what he was doing for the second is beyond me.

So true.

Inexplicable team selection and well as Frankie has done so far this season, I am amazed more didn't notice that he should have claimed the ball when Flint tackled the ball back to him. I guess he thought it might have been given as a back pass, but it wasn't and would have been far preferable to the utter shambles that ensued.

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11 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

 

Take a look from 3 minutes on, I would love to see at what point Taylor tries to nut him.

he was side on to the south stand, you could see it in profile, he put his head right up into his face - not a nut, i agree, but the guy shoves back on him. stupid response all round

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1 minute ago, Antman said:

he was side on to the south stand, you could see it in profile, he put his head right up into his face - not a nut, i agree, but the guy shoves back on him. stupid response all round

Mate, Taylor's response was clearly wrong but a). Taylor head only moves after the contact. B). the contact occurs when the Leeds guy CLEARLY drops the nut on him when Taylor is about 3 or 4 inches away from him, surely you can see that?. 

Hence one red and one yellow.

 

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Generous giving fielding a 6. Awful on 2nd and scared of coming off his line throughout the game. So many routine balls to come off his line and gather, but never shouts and comes, instead stays on his line and leaves our defence to deal with it. One occasion first half ball was in the air with just Wright and fielding in the box, fielding just stays on his line and Wright is forced to head it away. Schoolboy stuff. Obviously many players were awful, but just thought Id mention him as I have never thought he is a championship goalie and today showed why. 

There's a surprise!!!

 

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58 minutes ago, ciderrider said:

I think all the low marks for Flint are a bit harsh, Hegeler was so bad that Flint was effectively playing in central defense on his own today. Im not saying he played well, obviously most players were poor today, but the big man wasnt as bad as some scores are saying.

He had a poor game.  By the same token, perhaps Hegeler might’ve been good today had Flint not dragged him down!  Both were below par, Losoggo had too easy a game as a target man.

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8 minutes ago, Donkeeebles said:

Ok I will disregard Packs several outstanding performances this season and re-evaluate his capabilities as a championship player solely on today

In peace, IMHO Pack will only ever look good when he has Smith or somebody of that ilk beside him, take that away and Pack is shown up as being slow and average and if Smith is poor Pack is usually worse, that is the way that I see it.

I found/find it strange that people rate Pack over Smith, I said after our win at Ipswich god help us should Smith get injured, he is that important to us IMO.

PS:- Nobody can fault Pack's effort or bravery.

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2 hours ago, Forever Red 94 said:

Flint a 6?  Today showed he is not as good as people make out! Kick the ball long towards him and sure he looks good. But, positionally he is poor, cant defend the ball on the floor and has the turning circle of a double decker. He didnt have baker to hold his hand today and got badly exposed. Should of cashed in when we had the chance! Get pisano back and partner baker with wright.

One thing I'll agree with is the bite of Eros to return at fullback..as regards back stabbing Flinty??..ok,not the best game, but have a feckin word with yourself.

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3 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

One thing I'll agree with is the bite of Eros to return at fullback..as regards back stabbing Flinty??..ok,not the best game, but have a feckin word with yourself.

Why would it be backstabbing? He is a level below both wright and baker! He has got away with some truly dreadful performances and mistakes over the past couple of seasons, no room for sentiment in football, we have to go with our strongest back 4 when everybody fit. Which does not include flint

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1 hour ago, Forever Red 94 said:

Why would it be backstabbing? He is a level below both wright and baker! He has got away with some truly dreadful performances and mistakes over the past couple of seasons, no room for sentiment in football, we have to go with our strongest back 4 when everybody fit. Which does not include flint

Didn't be just win championship player of the month? I guess he's doing something right 

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Hardly worth giving marks, overall it was a poor team performance and Leeds had the measure of us all game. Just horribly disjointed, and in all honesty, I doubt that a couple of changes in starting XI would have made much difference. 5 games in 15 days means that squad rotation likely, main thing now is for the players to move on. 

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