Major Isewater Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 Ok , all is rosy in the garden . We've stared at the abyss and come through . We've had more ups and downs than a whore's g-string and now we're sitting pretty. There is one man in particular who gets very bad press on OTIB but is the time right to perhaps look at his contribution to our present standing ? Firstly , I believe his personality was not suited to our club . He came across as a dour , miserable sort and the City faithful had difficulty getting over this and listening to the messages that he was giving out. The team seemed to reflect the quiet , unassuming nature of the head coach and the crowds watched in despair as we sunk without a fight. However , here it is folks ! , SOD instigated the policy that sees us fourth in the Championship and I believe he ruffled enough feathers at the club to a) make Lansdown réalise that the club needed investment in the direction , coaching and scouting set up and b) Get himself fired by his cussedness. Now this won't be popular as a thread I'm sure but I would like to think that , after all , we could be a little bit more respectful of the man and what he tried to achieve here . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 The only thing he deserves credit for is being so shit he had to get sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellfire Corner Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, 29AR said: The only thing he deserves credit for is being so shit he had to get sacked. Not a fan then 29? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: Ok , all is rosy in the garden . We've stared at the abyss and come through . We've had more ups and downs than a whore's g-string and now we're sitting pretty. There is one man in particular who gets very bad press on OTIB but is the time right to perhaps look at his contribution to our present standing ? Firstly , I believe his personality was not suited to our club . He came across as a dour , miserable sort and the City faithful had difficulty getting over this and listening to the messages that he was giving out. The team seemed to reflect the quiet , unassuming nature of the head coach and the crowds watched in despair as we sunk without a fight. However , here it is folks ! , SOD instigated the policy that sees us fourth in the Championship and I believe he ruffled enough feathers at the club to a) make Lansdown réalise that the club needed investment in the direction , coaching and scouting set up and b) Get himself fired by his cussedness. Now this won't be popular as a thread I'm sure but I would like to think that , after all , we could be a little bit more respectful of the man and what he tried to achieve here . You're supping the plonk very early this morning Your Maj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 SOD who questioned the transfer fee of Flint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 Of course he does.. I posted the below the other day and it applies here Yeah, I think we're finally going in the right direction. Lansdown, Ashton, Cotterill, Johnson etc have all done their bit. I think one forgotten contributor who had an unenviable job was O'Driscoll. I know he's not exactly popular on here, but he did a lot of difficult things and I think gave the board a lot of home truths that they needed to hear. He was one of a few managers who had to operate here in a period of austerity. The club needed a reset and he helped start that process. He also signed a few players who are still here and performing in our first team - Fielding, Flint, Pack - and a few others who were important in getting us promoted; Williams, Wagstaff and JET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 No manager of any football club is all good or all bad. Both SO'D and DMc were cursed by what had gone before them and while neither was able to make any noticeable progress at the time, in hindsight, both were involved in the cleaning up that allowed Steve Cotterill to achieve what he did. Neither will ever be considered as good managers but they were not as bad as some would have us believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dredd Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Tomarse said: SOD who questioned the transfer fee of Flint... But still paid it and brought him to the club. Along with Fielding and Pack. Was he the first to give Bryan a run of decent games too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dredd said: But still paid it and brought him to the club. Along with Fielding and Pack. Was he the first to give Bryan a run of decent games too ? That’s right - he was here 4 seasons ago. Considering how transient and fast moving football is.. for 3 of his signings to still be first team regulars when you consider we’ve gone from bottom of L1 to top 6 of the Championship is a big achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSSEL85 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 I always thought SOD as a good manager in the leagues and I was encouraged initially at the appointment but it was simply the wrong man in the wrong job and the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welcome To The Jungle Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Tomarse said: SOD who questioned the transfer fee of Flint... True, but remember he was in charge when we were scraping the barrel a bit to sign players. How much did we spend that summer? Almost nothing if I remember rightly. He may have only been given a budget of 500k so the difference between spending 300k on Flint and 200k is huge when we may have used that money elsewhere. Also Flint was pretty shocking that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 I can see what the OP is getting at here, and yes, whether he was involved that much in our current position or just happened to be in the position at the time when things began to change, I think some level of input is fair to acknowledge. He was depressingly disasterous as a manager here, but I think his coaching and other aspects of his skill set were accepted by most. I think Steve Cotterill did a fantastic job to repair the damage that SOD did to the first team, but I think SOD did have a hand in turning the whole club around overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: That’s right - he was here 4 seasons ago. Considering how transient and fast moving football is.. for 3 of his signings to still be first team regulars when you consider we’ve gone from bottom of L1 to top 6 of the Championship is a big achievement. To an extent, although, again, Steve Cotterill was the one who turned Frankie & Flint into far better players and despite a good season in L1, Pack has only improved to Championship level since SC departed, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I can see what the OP is getting at here, and yes, whether he was involved that much in our current position or just happened to be in the position at the time when things began to change, I think some level of input is fair to acknowledge. He was depressingly disasterous as a manager here, but I think his coaching and other aspects of his skill set were accepted by most. I think Steve Cotterill did a fantastic job to repair the damage that SOD did to the first team, but I think SOD did have a hand in turning the whole club around overall. The Club needed a reset, we had been riding our luck for a few years and it wasn’t sustainable. We couldn’t buy our way out of trouble with journeymen forever. Sure, he wasn’t the most affable character and the results weren’t good at the time. I feel though that’s hes had a big hand in changing the philosophy here and unfortunately had to do this during a period of austerity when we were at a low ebb. I think people look at the short term picture here and look at results over a period of a few games. SO’D was appalled by many aspects of the club - scouting, player identification, the youth set up etc and set the ball rolling to improve all of those aspects - something we’re reaping the benefits from now imo. 2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: To an extent, although, again, Steve Cotterill was the one who turned Frankie & Flint into far better players and despite a good season in L1, Pack has only improved to Championship level since SC departed, IMO. The point is that he signed them during a period of austerity and they’ve become Championship players. He only had half a season to work with those players so it’s folly to compare how they progressed under a different manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norn Iron Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 Sorry Major, I misunderstood the title. I thought it was about SO'D being refused any type of financial loan. I'm pleased for him that he's not in dire straits (other 80's bands also apply). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSSEL85 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Norn Iron said: Sorry Major, I misunderstood the title. I thought it was about SO'D being refused any type of financial loan. I'm pleased for him that he's not in dire straits (other 80's bands also apply). The bank said "No, No, Noooooo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 22 minutes ago, Hellfire Corner said: Not a fan then 29? Couldn't be less of a fan tbh. It's quite a British trait to look back fondly, especially when you're looking back from a happier place. SOD threatened this club with the worst kind of capitulation - he oversaw a pathetic survival attempt in the Championship, nearly didn't sign Flint for pennies and dragged us down to the basement of League One because his arse wasn't translucent and he couldn't see through it. I'm sure there are some good behind the scenes things he implemented. For Christ's sake he was here long enough, he should have got a couple of things correct - broken clock and all that. But no, in terms of manager, he ranks up there with Pulis for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: The Club needed a reset, we had been riding our luck for a few years and it wasn’t sustainable. We couldn’t buy our way out of trouble with journeymen forever. Sure, he wasn’t the most affable character and the results weren’t good at the time. I feel though that’s hes had a big hand in changing the philosophy here and unfortunately had to do this during a period of austerity when we were at a low ebb. I think people look at the short term picture here and look at results over a period of a few games. SO’D was appalled by many aspects of the club - scouting, player identification, the youth set up etc and set the ball rolling to improve all of those aspects - something we’re reaping the benefits from now imo. The point is that he signed them during a period of austerity and they’ve become Championship players. He only had half a season to work with those players so it’s folly to compare how they progressed under a different manager. We “needed” to get relegated from the Championship back then. We weren’t good enough, had no plan or direction. SOD was the fall guy, to an extent. However, our performances that saw us st the foot of L1 we abysmal! We’re they really times of such austerity, when we splashed an (at the time) inflated £400k on a cart horse from Swindon?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 he deserves 0 credit, he was with out a doubt the worst manager this club ever had, even worse the Osman and Pulis, We were going to do a Gas under him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipps69 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 SO’D & DMc both had the job of clearing the ‘chaff’ out of the club & trying to bring the expenditure of the club under control & because of that, neither was given the necessary funds to improve a squad that was more than a little short on real talent & as a result they had to shop in the cheaper markets & while Flint was fairly cheap & has proven himself to be a bargain, he struggled for the first season or so here. And having got rid of that ‘chaff’, they enabled Cotts & LJ to be in a position to spend a bit more freely as we have so few financial drains within the squad now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Bar BS3 said: We “needed” to get relegated from the Championship back then. We weren’t good enough, had no plan or direction. SOD was the fall guy, to an extent. However, our performances that saw us st the foot of L1 we abysmal! We’re they really times of such austerity, when we splashed an (at the time) inflated £400k on a cart horse from Swindon?! Yeah they were. We only made those signings because we knew we were selling Adomah and Davies for relatively large fees. We had to sell before we bought. The Flint signing was symbolic, we got relegated partly because we didn’t sort a dominant centre half under Del. We were prepared to finance that. I think, with respect, you’re missing the point a bit. People aren’t debating his results - they were poor. The point is more about whether he helped set things in motion for the success we’re having now. I think definitely. He made changes that needed to be made and gave the board home truths they needed to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderingred Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 What he may or may not have done behind the scenes to improve things is pure speculation. We may never know. What we do know though is sitting through some of the most turgid football ever witnessed here, going 7 months without a league win and dropping to the foot of league one with a core of players who would win the title a year later. He drained all confidence and belief and players took to the field with the mentality that we weren't good enough to beat the likes of Colchester and Shrewsbury. I can only go by what I saw first hand and SOD was up there with Pulis and Osman for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 13 minutes ago, 29AR said: Couldn't be less of a fan tbh. It's quite a British trait to look back fondly, especially when you're looking back from a happier place. SOD threatened this club with the worst kind of capitulation - he oversaw a pathetic survival attempt in the Championship, nearly didn't sign Flint for pennies and dragged us down to the basement of League One because his arse wasn't translucent and he couldn't see through it. I'm sure there are some good behind the scenes things he implemented. For Christ's sake he was here long enough, he should have got a couple of things correct - broken clock and all that. But no, in terms of manager, he ranks up there with Pulis for me. Interesting. He was here for one transfer window. One full summer transfer window. And eleven months in total. The man that fired him - after one defeat in seven - now is lauded for his patience and backing of his managers! It's a funny old game..... And the miserable SO'D was implementing the pillars at the time, fully supportive of the new direction the club was heading in, in terms of "philosophy" and so on. He played Bobby Reid a lot. But the "outcomes," on the pitch, were dire. This is true. It does make me smile, though, as SL is cheered for his strength in the face of poor results and supporter unrest/disappearing crowds: and that "noisy" fans clamouring for Johnson's head last winter were the "problem" with this club, etc. Steve has "hired and fired" himself before and played his part in that culture, as well as bucking that trend with LJ. I know this will upset some posters, but is it true? I think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 14 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Yeah they were. We only made those signings because we knew we were selling Adomah and Davies for relatively large fees. We had to sell before we bought. The Flint signing was symbolic, we got relegated partly because we didn’t sort a dominant centre half under Del. We were prepared to finance that. I think, with respect, you’re missing the point a bit. People aren’t debating his results - they were poor. The point is more about whether he helped set things in motion for the success we’re having now. I think definitely. He made changes that needed to be made and gave the board home truths they needed to hear. I think my first post on this thread did acknowledge he handva hand in turning the tide, off the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Wanderingred said: What he may or may not have done behind the scenes to improve things is pure speculation. We may never know. @spudski would be able to expand with far better knowledge than me, but SO'D did set the groundwork for bringing our scouting, recruitment and analytics to where it is now. 8 minutes ago, Wanderingred said: What we do know though is sitting through some of the most turgid football ever witnessed here, going 7 months without a league win and dropping to the foot of league one with a core of players who would win the title a year later. He drained all confidence and belief and players took to the field with the mentality that we weren't good enough to beat the likes of Colchester and Shrewsbury. I can only go by what I saw first hand and SOD was up there with Pulis and Osman for me. I think it depends on the question being asked which is this... 56 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: is the time right to perhaps look at his contribution to our present standing ? If you look at his contribution as a bigger picture and consider his purchases, the context of his time here and the changes he set in motion - I feel he definitely had a positive contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, Monkeh said: he deserves 0 credit, he was with out a doubt the worst manager this club ever had, even worse the Osman and Pulis, We were going to do a Gas under him We done them under him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I think my first post on this thread did acknowledge he handva hand in turning the tide, off the pitch. Which is my point really. I think we're the wrong club for him to be the manager. We felt we'd outgrown L1 but had the double blow of Ashton Vale getting rejected AND relegation. I didn't particularly warm to his personality really and found his attack on the fans post Rovers bizarre and irritating. We had a team of mercenaries and poor players who weren't playing for the shirt and we were relegated convincingly. It was embarrassing. It wasn't a good time to be a fan and IIRC - Rovers were threatening to get promoted from L2. The club was in a bad place and we probably needed a combination of his philosophies and hard truths combined with Cotterill's galvanising abilities and passion. Maybe the man with that combination is LJ.. I think he'd be a good person to have around perhaps as an assistant manager, or in a Tinnion/Scouting role.. maybe even a Director of Football who implements a long standing philosophy. I think he's a better manager for a smaller club - like Doncaster for example - where expectations are lower and he's given more patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderingred Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 All fair points Fogg, but I prefer just to look at the things we know are true rather than what may or may not have gone on behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 53 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: He also signed a few players who are still here and performing in our first team - Fielding, Flint, Pack - and a few others who were important in getting us promoted; Williams, Wagstaff and JET. The only three players he spent money on: Fielding £250k, Flint £300k, Pack £100k. Not a bad record... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted October 30, 2017 Report Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said: The only three players he spent money on: Fielding £250k, Flint £300k, Pack £100k. Not a bad record... Very impressive really, especially considering his budget was dependent on reducing the wage bill and selling our assets. All three players have had their critics but all three are still here and are first team players, they've all improved too which shows SO'D can identify potential in players. Funny too how he's near enough the only manager to consistently get the best out of JET.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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