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Bailey Wright - Suspended for 2 matches


View from the Dolman

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4 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Is one of the problems the fact that there has been growing pressure on the authorities to take action against simulation?

As a result, when the FA decide they are going to do so, the issue then becomes that they need to be seen to take action so they have to look for situations in order to make an example of a player. In this case there are varying opinions as to whether BW deceived the referee, but what appears to not be in doubt is that Kamara "attacked" BW off the ball, but in the FA's falling over themselves in order to be seen to to "punish" the perceived deceiver, they have made a mockery of the whole process by exonerating the player who instigated the incident with his unprovoked attack.

 

Attacked?? I’d say pushed

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20 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I don't see how you can conclude that this was a dive.  A dive implies no contact. There was clear contact, enough in my opinion to knock a player down.  What part of his anatomy he then chooses to clutch is neither here nor there.

Really, he went down holding his face at no time was that touched! So your happy for one of our players to cheat? Fair enough I just hope loads get done when caught

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8 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Just watched the video again to refresh my memory, and I still firmly believe that BW makes a meal of it, and deserves what he got.  He’s down on the grass, rolling around like he’s just taken a punch, he got pushed, that’s it, get up and get on with it, unless it was a super push that too away his ability to use his legs?

Yeh the other guy should not have pushed him, and yeh he at least deserved a yellow for that, but BW is IMO out to make it look like he was seriously hurt.  Embarrassing.

Check out this ‘tackle’ from Vinnie Jones on Cantona, yeh different game in terms of punishment for that sort of challenge, but what’s great is Cantonas reaction, straight back up on his feet, showing that he can’t be intimidated, that’s the reaction you want.

These days players opt to fall to the floor if there is ‘contact’ and we the fans are now starting to repeat this mantra, ‘there was contact’ ‘he had the right to go down’, utter rubbish.

However, having said all of that, why BW has been singled out for doing this when loads of players do it week in week out is a strange one.  I spotted Djuric go down easy against Cardiff and the crowd got on his back which was good I think.

Anyway

As I understand it the "offence" BW was guilty of was simulating his injury in order to get Kamara sent off. My reading of this is that the only retrospective punishments , like BW's, will be where a sending off or a penalty results from the offence.

The run of the mill cheating, where players go down with no contact, and the only offence is a free kickm will remain perfectly acceptable.

 

Using this logic, and the stupidity 

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2 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Really, he went down holding his face at no time was that touched! So your happy for one of our players to cheat? Fair enough I just hope loads get done when caught

And that is the whole point, we see it in virtually in every single game in all of the 4 leagues and yet so far 1 championship player and 1 2nd division player, when can we expect 'loads' to get done? and when can expect the biggest cheats of all the ones in the premiership to start being 'done'.

Phil Jones for his outrageous dive resulting in an own goal might have been a better starting point.

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41 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And that is the whole point, we see it in virtually in every single game in all of the 4 leagues and yet so far 1 championship player and 1 2nd division player, when can we expect 'loads' to get done? and when can expect the biggest cheats of all the ones in the premiership to start being 'done'.

 

Exactly and these 2 players were convicted in games without loads of cameras and angles, whereas live games especially  Premiership games have cameras at all sort of angles and we are led to believe that nothing as been spotted yet at these games?

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1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Firstly you are aware that it is the FA premier league?, Although it does not run the day-to-day operations of the premier league, it has veto power over the appointment of the League Chairman and Chief Executive and over any changes to league rules.

Can you come up with a plausible explanation as to exactly why premier league players who are without doubt the worst offenders in cheating, simulation and exaggeration are still not being brought to book over this even after bringing in the legislation?, Kyle Walker's sending off earlier in the season being a classic example and similar in every way to the Wright incident, my contention is they are under severe pressure from the premier league not to rock the boat and to 'damage' the brand.

Basically IMHO it is being trialled in the lower leagues, probably in the hope that eventually premier league players will get the message at the expense of the plebs and so far 1 championship player and 1 2nd division player is worse than pathetic for a problem that blights virtually every game played and especially the premier league.

I hope that answers your question, I hope you will answer mine.

 

 

I never disagreed with the point that the FA has yet to punish PL players properly for simulation. I agree with that. It may well be that they are doing that because the PL has influence in various ways.

I just challenged your claim that the PL is the FA's "gravy train", so that it is avoiding the punishments for financial reasons - ie the FA gets lots of money from the PL. I see you have sidestepped that issue again, despite highlighting my question. As far as I can see, the FA gets most of it funds from the broadcasting of internationals and FA Cup matches. It seems not to be awash with money - indeed when Wembley was being rebuilt, people feared for its financial future. The Wembley loans have been refinanced and they now have better broadcasting deals, so they are OK. But is any of that PL money?

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2 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

These days players opt to fall to the floor if there is ‘contact’ and we the fans are now starting to repeat this mantra, ‘there was contact’ ‘he had the right to go down’, utter rubbish.

 

However, having said all of that, why BW has been singled out for doing this when loads of players do it week in week out is a strange one.  I spotted Djuric go down easy against Cardiff and the crowd got on his back which was good I think.

Anyway

And why do they do it?  Because if they don't go down, the referee usually doesn't give a foul!!!  How many times have you seen a player try to ride a foul tackle, and the tackle has gone unpenalised (especially in the penalty area). 

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23 minutes ago, Leveller said:

I never disagreed with the point that the FA has yet to punish PL players properly for simulation. I agree with that. It may well be that they are doing that because the PL has influence in various ways.

I just challenged your claim that the PL is the FA's "gravy train", so that it is avoiding the punishments for financial reasons - ie the FA gets lots of money from the PL. I see you have sidestepped that issue again, despite highlighting my question. As far as I can see, the FA gets most of it funds from the broadcasting of internationals and FA Cup matches. It seems not to be awash with money - indeed when Wembley was being rebuilt, people feared for its financial future. The Wembley loans have been refinanced and they now have better broadcasting deals, so they are OK. But is any of that PL money?

Off at a tangent.

The FA gets its resources from sponsorship, tv, its competitions, its services and products, its building based assets e,g. Wembley and St Georges park, regional FA's and its players/clubs signed to associated leagues, indirectly the football league, government and the EPL.

Its hundreds of millions of profit on a much larger obviously turn over.

This is not a point regarding gravy trains but one you can deduce your own view from. One  obvious organisation is completely over represented within the football association - The EPL and that the EPL makes payments to the FA then circumnavigates cash back to itself.

Its questionable why St Georges Park and Wembley exist - Is it for the greater good or the EPL and the elite? The German DFB has no national stadium and rather than run one elite facility i.e. St Georges Park runs smaller regional centres (100+) nationally.

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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

And why do they do it?  Because if they don't go down, the referee usually doesn't give a foul!!!  How many times have you seen a player try to ride a foul tackle, and the tackle has gone unpenalised (especially in the penalty area). 

And why doesn’t the referee always make the right decision?  Cause he has to try and work out which players are genuinely fouled and which are simulating!  It’s a self fulfilling prophecy

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2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Off at a tangent.

The FA gets its resources from sponsorship, tv, its competitions, its services and products, its building based assets e,g. Wembley and St Georges park, regional FA's and its players/clubs signed to associated leagues, indirectly the football league, government and the EPL.

Its hundreds of millions of profit on a much larger obviously turn over.

This is not a point regarding gravy trains but one you can deduce your own view from. One  obvious organisation is completely over represented within the football association - The EPL and that the EPL makes payments to the FA then circumnavigates cash back to itself.

Its questionable why St Georges Park and Wembley exist - Is it for the greater good or the EPL and the elite? The German DFB has no national stadium and rather than run one elite facility i.e. St Georges Park runs smaller regional centres (100+) nationally.

Looking at the FA 2015-16 accounts, the pre tax profit was only £10.7M. So there aren’t “hundreds of millions of profit” but about £7M post tax. In fact the accounts call the FA a not-for-profit organisation. The 2014-5 accounts show a loss, due to smaller turnover and bigger debt servicing costs (their £300M debt has been restructured to save interest).

However, the not-for-profit position is after an overhead of £125M (2015-16) which is reinvestment in the sport, which they call their key financial measure. In other words they aim for a trading surplus from TV rights, Wembley etc, which they then spend on grass roots football. So in a sense there is about £130M trading profit before spending on grass roots football - I don’t know what that comprises or if any of it goes back to the PL.

I’m no fan of the FA, but I do think if people want to indulge in FA bashing they should get their facts right and not shoot from the hip implying that the PL pay them loads so that their players aren’t punished.

 

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5 hours ago, Leveller said:

I never disagreed with the point that the FA has yet to punish PL players properly for simulation. I agree with that. It may well be that they are doing that because the PL has influence in various ways.

I just challenged your claim that the PL is the FA's "gravy train", so that it is avoiding the punishments for financial reasons - ie the FA gets lots of money from the PL. I see you have sidestepped that issue again, despite highlighting my question. As far as I can see, the FA gets most of it funds from the broadcasting of internationals and FA Cup matches. It seems not to be awash with money - indeed when Wembley was being rebuilt, people feared for its financial future. The Wembley loans have been refinanced and they now have better broadcasting deals, so they are OK. But is any of that PL money?

No I haven't side stepped anything, the FA have the power over the rules of the game and have not implemented them in an even handed way and as I hope you will agree that the premier league players being the worst exponents of cheating are not being punished, there must be a reason why that is not happening and I suspect that whatever meagre pickings the FA receive from the PL in the grand scheme of the FA's finances it is probably significant, but I repeat there must be a valid reason that the FA are staying firmly away from the premier league in this matter.

If the system had been used even handedly and fairly then I would fully support what has happened to Wright but it hasn't and it won't, so neither will I.

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2 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

No I haven't side stepped anything, the FA have the power over the rules of the game and have not implemented them in an even handed way and as I hope you will agree that the premier league players being the worst exponents of cheating are not being punished, there must be a reason why that is not happening and I suspect that whatever meagre pickings the FA receive from the PL in the grand scheme of the FA's finances it is probably significant, but I repeat there must be a valid reason that the FA are staying firmly away from the premier league in this matter.

If the system had been used even handedly and fairly then I would fully support what has happened to Wright but it hasn't and it won't, so neither will I.

From gravy train to meagre pickings in one grudging post.

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6 hours ago, Leveller said:

Looking at the FA 2015-16 accounts, the pre tax profit was only £10.7M. So there aren’t “hundreds of millions of profit” but about £7M post tax. In fact the accounts call the FA a not-for-profit organisation. The 2014-5 accounts show a loss, due to smaller turnover and bigger debt servicing costs (their £300M debt has been restructured to save interest).

However, the not-for-profit position is after an overhead of £125M (2015-16) which is reinvestment in the sport, which they call their key financial measure. In other words they aim for a trading surplus from TV rights, Wembley etc, which they then spend on grass roots football. So in a sense there is about £130M trading profit before spending on grass roots football - I don’t know what that comprises or if any of it goes back to the PL.

I’m no fan of the FA, but I do think if people want to indulge in FA bashing they should get their facts right and not shoot from the hip implying that the PL pay them loads so that their players aren’t punished.

 

I omitted the word gross, my intention was not to mislead. The FA in many parts is certainly ran not for profit within its regional FA's but many aspects are not. St Georges Park is a white elephant that benefits the elite in football not the greater good - It cost a hundred million pounds for one centre of excellence - My point is the Germans have a hundred centres nationally - That is not spending money on the grass roots it is syphoning money away from it and its regional FA's.   

Why does this go on? The EPL and its influence on the FA is one reason. 

In other words they aim for a trading surplus from TV rights, Wembley etc, which they then spend on grass roots football ... Grass roots football which because of a top heavy emphasis on the elite is poorly funded v Germany, or Spain or Iceland. Check qualified coaching levels in the UK v Iceland. Numbers in this above level 2 in this Country are woefully low. FA coaching badges are expensive v any other Country. Some football qualifications can only be accessed by staying at St Georges Park - It is not cheap - I paid £450 for two nights! That is for profit.

I’m no fan of the FA, but I do think if people want to indulge in FA bashing they should get their facts right and not shoot from the hip implying that the PL pay them loads so that their players aren’t punished ... I did not. I simply reframed a point about the influence of the EPL on the FA. Check how highly the EPL is represented v the women's game, ethnic minorities etc within the FA then decide if it is fair and healthy. I also pointed out the FA do pay the EPL money but get large sums back which he EPL have put into their own projects hence calls to impose a 5% levy on EPL tv revenue which will truly go to grass roots football. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I omitted the word gross, my intention was not to mislead. The FA in many parts is certainly ran not for profit within its regional FA's but many aspects are not. St Georges Park is a white elephant that benefits the elite in football not the greater good - It cost a hundred million pounds for one centre of excellence - My point is the Germans have a hundred centres nationally - That is not spending money on the grass roots it is syphoning money away from it and its regional FA's.   

Why does this go on? The EPL and its influence on the FA is one reason. 

In other words they aim for a trading surplus from TV rights, Wembley etc, which they then spend on grass roots football ... Grass roots football which because of a top heavy emphasis on the elite is poorly funded v Germany, or Spain or Iceland. Check qualified coaching levels in the UK v Iceland. Numbers in this above level 2 in this Country are woefully low. FA coaching badges are expensive v any other Country. Some football qualifications can only be accessed by staying at St Georges Park - It is not cheap - I paid £450 for two nights! That is for profit.

I’m no fan of the FA, but I do think if people want to indulge in FA bashing they should get their facts right and not shoot from the hip implying that the PL pay them loads so that their players aren’t punished ... I did not. I simply reframed a point about the influence of the EPL on the FA. Check how highly the EPL is represented v the women's game, ethnic minorities etc within the FA then decide if it is fair and healthy. I also pointed out the FA do pay the EPL money but get large sums back which he EPL have put into their own projects hence calls to impose a 5% levy on EPL tv revenue which will truly go to grass roots football. 

 

I was referring to Esmond’s earlier posts - not yours.

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4 hours ago, dave36 said:

Could be someone in the upper reaches just does not like City! Just look at how we manage to get the worst refs on the roster on a regular basis, together with linesmen who would have trouble keeping up with walking football!

Every team across the land says the refs are against them.

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11 hours ago, Leveller said:

From gravy train to meagre pickings in one grudging post.

Thanks for the usual critique, but again no reply to MY questions.

In the scale of the FA's finances in comparison to the premier league, the sum can be described as meagre pickings from the premier league but significant for the FA.

I will try once more what reason can the FA (the arbiter of the rules of the English game) have for not pursuing premiership players the worst purveyors of cheating?.

 

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57 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Thanks for the usual critique, but again no reply to MY questions.

In the scale of the FA's finances in comparison to the premier league, the sum can be described as meagre pickings from the premier league but significant for the FA.

I will try once more what reason can the FA (the arbiter of the rules of the English game) have for not pursuing premiership players the worst purveyors of cheating?.

 

See #678 where I answered your question. At no point in this dialogue have I disagreed with your feeling that the FA has not adequately punished high profile PL players. I accept they may wish to avoid upsetting the PL, which would be wrong.

I simply queried your assertion that the PL was the FA’s “flagship gravy train” or some such, more or less stating that the FA gets loads of money from the PL so won’t punish its players. As far as I can see it doesn’t, so you can’t say that financial corruption is the reason. Does that explain my position clearly?

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19 minutes ago, Leveller said:

See #678 where I answered your question. At no point in this dialogue have I disagreed with your feeling that the FA has not adequately punished high profile PL players. I accept they may wish to avoid upsetting the PL, which would be wrong.

I simply queried your assertion that the PL was the FA’s “flagship gravy train” or some such, more or less stating that the FA gets loads of money from the PL so won’t punish its players. As far as I can see it doesn’t, so you can’t say that financial corruption is the reason. Does that explain my position clearly?

And I have never mentioned 'financial corruption' I have merely stated about 'protecting of the brand' at all costs and for one reason or another the FA seems to be happy to go along that route and whatever finances the FA receive from the premier league in the grand scheme of the FA finances it must be a revenue stream that they can ill afford to lose and thus must be at the very least a consideration in their decision making, I cannot think and you have not given me an alternative reasoning.

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12 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And I have never mentioned 'financial corruption' I have merely stated about 'protecting of the brand' at all costs and for one reason or another the FA seems to be happy to go along that route and whatever finances the FA receive from the premier league in the grand scheme of the FA finances it must be a revenue stream that they can ill afford to lose and thus must be at the very least a consideration in their decision making, I cannot think and you have not given me an alternative reasoning.

I haven’t attempted to give you any alternative reasoning and won’t.  That was not my point as I have indicated several times.

You said the FA was turning a blind eye to its gravy train money making scheme - and I simply pointed out that the PL doesn’t seem to be that. You can’t say “it must be a revenue stream that they can ill afford to lose” without some figures or evidence to that effect. I don’t know for sure and you don’t seem to either. I can’t find anything in the accounts to evidence it though.

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Varied opinions on this thread re the BW case. Only he knows if he was caught out. However, I reckon most of us would like to see obvious cases of simulation earn a suspension. It would be interesting to have a "watch" on future cases brought by the FA. Will have to involve penalty/red card, their rule, rather than all instances of trying to deceive aka a "Maddison". Then we'll see how BW, & indeed Miller, compare & whether some Prem cases feature. 

ps As someone said earlier, Bailey's hectic travel schedule for his country wouldn't have been the best prep for Saturday & we did manage to beat Cardiff without him. Three more points Saturday would be good on top of Oz qualifying for Russia.

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6 hours ago, Leveller said:

I haven’t attempted to give you any alternative reasoning and won’t.  That was not my point as I have indicated several times.

You said the FA was turning a blind eye to its gravy train money making scheme - and I simply pointed out that the PL doesn’t seem to be that. You can’t say “it must be a revenue stream that they can ill afford to lose” without some figures or evidence to that effect. I don’t know for sure and you don’t seem to either. I can’t find anything in the accounts to evidence it though.

The FA has won this particular battle only because they are the FA but I guarantee that in the case of cheating per se they will lose the war.

Still another weekend is around the corner and I am sure that there will be enough cheating in the premiership that will go 'unnoticed' in the usual way and still nobody will have an answer as to why and I wonder how many times we will hear the immortal 'pundit' saying of "he was entitled to go down"?.

The season will unfold and the prosecutions may treble to a healthy 6 with probably a token premiership player thrown in (to show their even handedness) but only one from an unfashionable club of course.

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Interesting listening to LJ’s press conference on Wednesday where he’s asked about the FA statement. He says he saw himself Bailey get hit in the chin and that after the match he needed dental treatment for a “dead tooth”.  Also neither Bailey nor any of the other players or staff appealed to the Ref to get Kamara sent off.  It seems amazingly unfair to me.  

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5 hours ago, TinMan's left peg said:

Interesting listening to LJ’s press conference on Wednesday where he’s asked about the FA statement. He says he saw himself Bailey get hit in the chin and that after the match he needed dental treatment for a “dead tooth”.  Also neither Bailey nor any of the other players or staff appealed to the Ref to get Kamara sent off.  It seems amazingly unfair to me.  

Amazingly unfair, I got a dead tooth as a kid from quite an innocuous hit to the face, but it was chin upwards, hurt like hell.  Had to be extracted a few years later as never ‘took’ again.  Luckily I was always an ugly bugger so didn’t matter too much.

I’m sure Bailey can probably afford a decent dentist which might help.

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9 minutes ago, awbb said:

Everton’s Niasse. Clear dive against Palarse yesterday to win a penalty.

Let’s see, shall we.

Clear dive. The Palarse defender had his arm out to the side and Niasse just flung himself to the ground as soon as he brushed against it.

What are the odds on nothing being done about it?

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