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IMPORTANT - South Stand Display vs Cardiff


James

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2 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

If there are people from the EFL monitering us at the game because of the past issues with flares and the like then I can sort of understand this.

The St. Georges cross would be a (gentle) wind up to the Cardiff fans and this is a game with history of trouble.

I do think it is a bit over cautious though.

Sorry James but I can't agree at all. Flares and the EFL 'monitoring' are irrelevant. 

It's absolutely ludicrous from the club to disrupt the display and shows once again that they are still ultimately out of touch with supporters. It's a display featuring the national flag, hardly antagonistic.

Besides, the flares (from our fans) were a couple of isolated incidents at the Barnsley home game IIRC. There haven't been any incidents from home fans since then. I believe there were a couple today in the Cardiff end and some from Leeds a couple of weeks ago. Totally over the top to have the EFL 'monitoring' it.

If this comes from the club then @Mkelly had final say I assume?

If it's not a club decision then somehow the infamous SAG must be involved. The influence this un-elected and totally unaccountable quango has on things at the club is far too much and needs to be looked into. If anyone reading wasn't aware, I believe SAG prevented a FOI request to access meeting minutes - alarm bells should sound about that.

Very interested to hear the reasoning for this because it's ridiculous. 

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2 minutes ago, Nibor said:

I don't think the club should have interfered but why have we got to trot out an england flag just because we're playing a side from over the bridge?  It doesn't show patriotism, it's the least funny most boring form of banter going.  

It was for remembrance day.

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2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I doubt it. Didn’t even bother to reply when I pointed out the scumbag spitting at an opposition player and they clearly ignored it as he was in his usual spot today. 

Sadly I notice that two club employees have been online since this thread was started and will be aware of the issue. No comment yet..

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13 minutes ago, Nibor said:

I don't think the club should have interfered but why have we got to trot out an england flag just because we're playing a side from over the bridge?  It doesn't show patriotism, it's the least funny most boring form of banter going.  

I think mainly because it's a relatively simple display to arrange above all. I get the impression the idea today was to increase participation, get atmosphere going and trial a fan-led display.. and the club have ruined it.

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@Dave Storr

One for him maybe?

@Phileas Fogg

I tend to agree but James BCFC does have a point. Unless I dreamt it, was there a flare at Fulham?

From memory also, we let flare off at Birmingham and Brentford?

EFL maybe monitoring it as we were one of the most prolific early season and they just launched a no pyro campaign. 

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@Dave Storr

One for him maybe?

@Phileas Fogg

I tend to agree but James BCFC does have a point. Unless I dreamt it, was there a flare at Fulham?

From memory also, we let flare off at Birmingham and Brentford?

EFL maybe monitoring it as we were one of the most prolific early season and they just launched a no pyro campaign. 

I see no connection between flares being let off by our supporters or away supporters and a fan led St. George's Cross display. I don't know why anyone, even the most ridiculously cautious, would connect the two and deem disruption to the display a viable and useful option.

@Dave Storr hasn't logged onto Otib since April 9th and has only ever made 4 posts. He'd never be my first port of call in situations like this.

This is exactly the sort of situation where an SLO is required to provide dialogue but that situation regarding who it even is and what their responsibilities are has never been clarified properly. 

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1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I see no connection between flares being let off by our supporters or away supporters and a fan led St. George's Cross display. I don't know why anyone, even the cautious, would connect the too and deem disruption to the display a viable and useful option.

@Dave Storr hasn't logged onto Otib since April 9th and has only ever made 4 posts. He'd never be my first port of call in situations like this.

This is exactly the sort of situation where an SLO is required to provide dialogue but that situation has never been clarified properly. 

As head of safety, he should front up and explain what he is reasonably able to IMO.

I agree with you, it shouldn't have been an issue tbh. However, I could have seen SAG objecting on grounds (however unlikely and tenuous) of possible disorder.

Make you right about the SLO issue too.

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I must stress that as an ex employee of the club I had no input into any decision taken today. However, I must say that when I heard  that the intended display could have been the St George Cross , I did have reservations: not because of the fact that it's the English flag, but because of the particular significance of today being our remembrance game. The debt we owe to our service men and women transcends nationalism. Men and women from all countries have given up their lives for Great Britain over the years. To me,  displaying the English flag during the minute's silence would have been an insult to the memory of those brave Welsh men and women who have fought and given up their lives for our country. Any other occasion, I wouldn't have had a problem with it at all.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

As head of safety, he should front up and explain what he is reasonably able to IMO.

I agree with you, it shouldn't have been an issue tbh. However, I could have seen SAG objecting on grounds (however unlikely and tenuous) of possible disorder.

Make you right about the SLO issue too.

I agree he should, but he won't.

Sorry Mr P, just read my post back to you and it came across as a bit snappy. Wasn't intentional - situations like this (and Ultra-Flag gate a couple of years ago) really get on my nerves. Sadly I feel our club can be totally out of touch with supporters at times and issues like this seem to happen too much for my liking.

I suspect SAG had some involvement somewhere down the line - basically anything that inconveniences supporters seems to concern them.

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5 minutes ago, Dave L said:

I must stress that as an ex employee of the club I had no input into any decision taken today. However, I must say that when I heard  that the intended display could have been the St George Cross , I did have reservations: not because of the fact that it's the English flag, but because of the particular significance of today being our remembrance game. The debt we owe to our service men and women transcends nationalism. Men and women from all countries have given up their lives for Great Britain over the years. To me,  displaying the English flag during the minute's silence would have been an insult to the memory of those brave Welsh men and women who have fought and given up their lives for our country. Any other occasion, I wouldn't have had a problem with it at all.

That isn’t why they club stopped it though, the police gave it the OK as long as it wasn’t held up during the minute silence. This is purely a club decision and nothing to do with  the minute silence. 

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3 minutes ago, AshtonPark said:

That isn’t why they club stopped it though, the police gave it the OK as long as it wasn’t held up during the minute silence. This is purely a club decision and nothing to do with  the minute silence. 

Agree. As long as it wasn't held up during the minutes silence then there's no issue. Absolutely shocking decision from the club and the way they've treated these people who have dedicated their time money and effort into trying to get something special going in the ground. Seems like the powers that be at BCFC are turning  us into some kind of nanny state at the moment.  Shame. 

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15 minutes ago, Dave L said:

I must stress that as an ex employee of the club I had no input into any decision taken today. However, I must say that when I heard  that the intended display could have been the St George Cross , I did have reservations: not because of the fact that it's the English flag, but because of the particular significance of today being our remembrance game. The debt we owe to our service men and women transcends nationalism. Men and women from all countries have given up their lives for Great Britain over the years. To me,  displaying the English flag during the minute's silence would have been an insult to the memory of those brave Welsh men and women who have fought and given up their lives for our country. Any other occasion, I wouldn't have had a problem with it at all.

Not withstanding I am a leftie, I kind of 'get' that argument.

We were showing the English flag because we are proud of it, and, well, it's a bit of banter during a England v Wales kind of game. Equally, is that right during the silence? Not entirely sure. What if the Welsh fans responded by boo'ing or singing Land of my Fathers during the silence? Any other game against them, no issue at all.

Equally, whilst I get the argument, on balance I do not agree with it. The test for me is 'turn it round'. If we were at their place today and they showed the Welsh flag during the silence, would I have an issue with it? Pretty sure I would not.

Equally, none of that explains them being allowed to set it all out, and then told it was not allowed.

I suspect you will get some negative responses, so a quick thank you from me first for at least trying to give some nuance on the answer.

edit, and reading above, looks like a decision taken aside from the silence aspect. Just leaves a sour taste really.

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23 minutes ago, Dave L said:

I must stress that as an ex employee of the club I had no input into any decision taken today. However, I must say that when I heard  that the intended display could have been the St George Cross , I did have reservations: not because of the fact that it's the English flag, but because of the particular significance of today being our remembrance game. The debt we owe to our service men and women transcends nationalism. Men and women from all countries have given up their lives for Great Britain over the years. To me,  displaying the English flag during the minute's silence would have been an insult to the memory of those brave Welsh men and women who have fought and given up their lives for our country. Any other occasion, I wouldn't have had a problem with it at all.

It could only have been an insult had we prevented them from doing similar. 

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46 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I agree he should, but he won't.

Sorry Mr P, just read my post back to you and it came across as a bit snappy. Wasn't intentional - situations like this (and Ultra-Flag gate a couple of years ago) really get on my nerves. Sadly I feel our club can be totally out of touch with supporters at times and issues like this seem to happen too much for my liking.

I suspect SAG had some involvement somewhere down the line - basically anything that inconveniences supporters seems to concern them.

It's an emotive subject Phileas, no problem at all. Thanks.

Yeah, it's bad PR indeed for the club I reckon.I suppose they were being ubercautious...then taking it too far!

Agree about SAG too. Their refusal to engage, let alone the attitude towards scrutiny is bang out of order. On this, I suspect like with many things they had a major say.

I would add, the way it's handled has been the worst element for me...if the club anticipated an issue and a probable no they should have said so from the outset.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's an emotive subject Phileas, no problem at all. Thanks.

Yeah didn't mean to come across as rude.. It annoys me a great deal because I see good people making huge efforts to improve the atmosphere at games.. but not only that, they try and be as inclusive as possible. It was a S82 initiative for the South Stand to try and get people to take part. They are trying their best to improve the matchday experience for everyone. 

People gave up their own time (I read 5 hours!) to make this happen and are constantly fundraising to get things going for bigger and better displays flags and surfers.

These are a group of supporters who the club should be assisting wherever possible. For years this group in various forms have been pushed to the worst corners of the ground but still try their best to improve the atmosphere. They should be commended not inconvenienced.

The thing that's most bizarre about this is that it appeared as of last night, the club agreed. Something changed from this morning to kick off which meant they couldn't possibly allow supporters to hold up a St. George's Cross made out of card. Utterly ludicrous and spits in the face of the good people who give up much of their free time and their own cash to try and get the gate to rock.

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah, it's bad PR indeed for the club I reckon.I suppose they were being ubercautious...then taking it too far!

Agree about SAG too. Their refusal to engage, let alone the attitude towards scrutiny is bang out of order. On this, I suspect like with many things they had a major say.

I would add, the way it's handled has been the worst element for me...if the club anticipated an issue and a probable no they should have said so from the outset.

SAG should be something we as supporters view with suspicion. It appears they have no accountability and are given free reign to impose unnecessary rules on supporters. 

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I’d be ******* furious if I’d given up 5 hrs of my time only to have it ruined by the club, it’s a joke, if they were not going to allow it then just say and save everyone of those fans the time and hassle, Whoever changed their mind at the last minute should be ashamed of themselves. 

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