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IMPORTANT - South Stand Display vs Cardiff

James

By James
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Ian M

Ian M

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Posted

To be fair, the club should be compensating the fans for this regardless whether people believe it was right or wrong to display the St George flag.

The club agreed that the fans could purchase card and enter the ground to lay it out in a pattern. The club then changed the pattern to one more of their liking without contributing to the cost of the card at all. The club should reimburse the cost of the card.

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Akira

Akira

Posted
Posted

@JulieH are you able to confirm this wasn't a police issue, and was a decision done by the club, not yourselves?

Very much would like someone to try and explain this, as I think it's unforgivable. Undoing lots of people's hard work, time, effort and money...what a joke. 

Such a shame, because it's a great result, and to some, it might be seen as a 'ah well, sod it, we got the three points' but you have to look at the bigger picture here. 

 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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16 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Yeah didn't mean to come across as rude.. It annoys me a great deal because I see good people making huge efforts to improve the atmosphere at games.. but not only that, they try and be as inclusive as possible. It was a S82 initiative for the South Stand to try and get people to take part. They are trying their best to improve the matchday experience for everyone. 

People gave up their own time (I read 5 hours!) to make this happen and are constantly fundraising to get things going for bigger and better displays flags and surfers.

These are a group of supporters who the club should be assisting wherever possible. For years this group in various forms have been pushed to the worst corners of the ground but still try their best to improve the atmosphere. They should be commended not inconvenienced.

The thing that's most bizarre about this is that it appeared as of last night, the club agreed. Something changed from this morning to kick off which meant they couldn't possibly allow supporters to hold up a St. George's Cross made out of card. Utterly ludicrous and spits in the face of the good people who give up much of their free time and their own cash to try and get the gate to rock.

SAG should be something we as supporters view with suspicion. It appears they have no accountability and are given free reign to impose unnecessary rules on supporters. 

Spot on

 

12 hours ago, AshtonPark said:

Only in England can we expect to be offended by our own flag. I expect full silence from the club on this.

Ironically, the silence will be longer than one minute.

 

the club are doing done great things on and off the pitch, but this is an example where not everyone is joined up.  It seems to be a consistent theme.

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Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

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It's disgraceful that there's been radio silence from club officials on here and Twitter.

Someone from the club has to front up and communicate. This won't just go away if they bury their heads in the sand.

Sure, there'll rightly be tricky questions but unfortunately that's the nature of working in a customer-centric business and making decisions that inconvenience and piss off those customers.

This situation requires the SLO to communicate. Our Club Charter states..

Quote

SUPPORTER SERVICES

We have two club Supporter Liaison Officers, Adam Baker and Rachel Lemar. 
They are there to answer any questions you may have about any aspect of the way in which the club is run.

One or both need to be on hand to offer an explanation and initiate dialogue about this.

This interview from the Football Supporters Federation about Supporter Liaison Officers and how the position should work ideally is interesting.. clearly not something that's happening happening here.

Quote

Can you explain a little more about the concept of Supporter Liaison Officers?

An SLO is someone who builds bridges between clubs and fans. Clubs often don't even know who fans are or what they really think thanks to a lack of knowledge or communication between the two groups. We believe SLOs can help establish real, constructive dialogue between fans and clubs.

What would that day-to-day role involve?

They need to be able to communicate what really p****s off fans and help resolve those tensions. They should be involved with security and police meetings too. At present clubs meet with police pre-game and we think SLOs could make a real contribution to this on behalf of fans, giving our perspective on things. 

 

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BobBobSuperBob

BobBobSuperBob

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's disgraceful that there's been radio silence from club officials on here and Twitter.

Someone from the club has to front up and communicate. This won't just go away if they bury their heads in the sand.

Sure, there'll rightly be tricky questions but unfortunately that's the nature of working in a customer-centric business and making decisions that inconvenience and piss off those customers.

This situation requires the SLO - according to our Club Charter..

One or both need to be on hand to offer an explanation and initiate dialogue about this.

This interview from the Football Supporters Federation about Supporter Liaison Officers and how the position should work ideally is interesting.. clearly not something that's happening happening here.

 

I'd suggest PF it gets worse as the clock ticks

All running for cover and deciding who to blame

Im not on twitter but would be good if someone could tweet Jon Lansdown asking him if it was his ,or who's , decision was it

 

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Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I'd suggest PF it gets worse as the clock ticks

All running for cover and deciding who to blame

Im not on twitter but would be good if someone could tweet Jon Lansdown asking him if it was his ,or who's , decision was it

 

Yep - feels very similar to 'Ultra Flag-gate' a few years ago. The explanation then was very weak and I suspect this one will be now... if it ever arrives.

http://bristolcitysupporters.org/atmosphere-bristol-city/ - re-reading that I totally forgot we also seriously considered having a 'bubble machine' for the West Ham game. Ridiculous.

Plenty have tweeted Jon, Adam and others about this but no reply. 

I suspect most members of staff would agree with the almost unanimous annoyance on this thread but sadly they'll be the ones who'll have to answer to the fans. I suspect this decision came from people involved with the club who'd never put themselves 'there to be shot at' by answering to their actions. 

 

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Carey 6

Carey 6

Posted
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16 hours ago, Ian M said:

Can someone at the club decide if they want active supporters or not please?

Yesterday texts and tweets were flying about encouraging us to take on the FA over this Bailey Wright injustice. 

Today, I understand Jnr and Dave Storr decide to mess up a display fans had spent 5 hours of their free time creating. 

1 step forward, 2 steps back. 

You're completely spot on. JL and Storr are the two names that kept coming up yesterday. 

The club should repay the cost of the card at the very least. The hours spent on it by a committed few has sadly gone to waste. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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The hours and the money wasted.

There is another side to the coin here though. Supposing it had been allowed, and it had incited Cardiff fans? Or at minimum angered them sufficiently to disrupt minute's silence.

Club would have been strongly criticised over it 'Why did you allow this in a risk game?'

Bigger police bill no doubt the likely outcome. Plus more pressure and scrutiny by SAG/EFL over less serious issues.

I'm just painting a bad scenario, I doubt it would have happened. However that's the other thing which could have played a part for club.

However whatever the rationale it should IMO now be:

A) Explained in full and frank terms by the club.

B) This second bit is I would hope a given... Reimbursement of those who spent valuable time and money on the display.

Most certainly, there shouldn't have been the last minute change. Someone put it well on another thread, about things not being joined up at the club or words to that effect.

This surely applies here also.

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AshtonPark

AshtonPark

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57 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The hours and the money wasted.

There is another side to the coin here though. Supposing it had been allowed, and it had incited Cardiff fans? Or at minimum angered them sufficiently to disrupt minute's silence.

Club would have been strongly criticised over it 'Why did you allow this in a risk game?'

Bigger police bill no doubt the likely outcome. Plus more pressure and scrutiny by SAG/EFL over less serious issues.

I'm just painting a bad scenario, I doubt it would have happened. However that's the other thing which could have played a part for club.

However whatever the rationale it should IMO now be:

A) Explained in full and frank terms by the club.

B) This second bit is I would hope a given... Reimbursement of those who spent valuable time and money on the display.

Most certainly, there shouldn't have been the last minute change. Someone put it well on another thread, about things not being joined up at the club or words to that effect.

This surely applies here also.

The police said it was fine, they wouldn’t have said that if they thought it as a risk. 

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ZiderEyed

ZiderEyed

Posted
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@AdamB @Mkelly Explanation please.

This is a genuine injustice.

1. Whichever absolute whalloper is to be held accountable needs to refund S82 the cost of the display.

2. The club need to be clear if they actually want S82 to keep functioning, because it seems like the suits really don't.

3. The club need to make a statement on why this decision was made

 

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KevP

KevP

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4 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

@AdamB @Mkelly Explanation please.

This is a genuine injustice.

1. Whichever absolute whalloper is to be held accountable needs to refund S82 the cost of the display.

2. The club need to be clear if they actually want S82 to keep functioning, because it seems like the suits really don't.

3. The club need to make a statement on why this decision was made

 

This. Absolutely THIS.

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Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan

Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The hours and the money wasted.

There is another side to the coin here though. Supposing it had been allowed, and it had incited Cardiff fans? Or at minimum angered them sufficiently to disrupt minute's silence.

I could be wrong but wasn’t it supposed to be a St George’s Cross?

I don’t understand how that possibly would’ve caused Cardiff fans to kick off??

 

 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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12 minutes ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

I could be wrong but wasn’t it supposed to be a St George’s Cross?

I don’t understand how that possibly would’ve caused Cardiff fans to kick off??

 

 

I agree, but you never can be sure.

Is probably the club covering all bases and overcompensating, isn't it?

For avoidance of doubt I think this decision was wholly wrong. Display should have happened.

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Ian M

Ian M

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For what it's worth, Cardiff fans through various mediums have intimated they have huge respect for the armed forces and would not have disrupted the minute's silence whatever happened in front of them, even if the sight of an English flag in an English stadium was somehow totally abhorrent to them.

I am still at a loss why we in England are so ashamed to celebrate our Nationality. The other members of the United Kingdom proudly celebrate their status and flag but we are somehow convinced that any demonstration of national pride will cause offence.

Yes there was a time many years ago when the St George's flag was a symbol more greatly embraced by far right groups but for decades now, ownership has been reclaimed of the flag by the ordinary Joe. Maybe if we stopped fearing offending people, they could celebrate our nationality with us just like many do around the globe when St Patrick's day comes around?

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Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan

Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan

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18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I agree, but you never can be sure.

Is probably the club covering all bases and overcompensating, isn't it?

For avoidance of doubt I think this decision was wholly wrong. Display should have happened.

 I know mate.

I can believe the scenario you suggested...ie worry at the club about how the Cardiff fans would react. IF that was the reason (and at this stage we don’t know), I think it’s ridiculous. 

The club should explain their u turn.

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Cider Army

Cider Army

Posted
Posted

Havent you ever noticed they take an age to comment on things like this...extra time to right notes and think of a excuse..I still think its a nerve that us average fans have to raise money to create a atmosphere and make it feel our home...How about the club start thinking about the most important people the fans. Why do other grounds have no problems doing card displays..or is that just me.

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SimonL

SimonL

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23 minutes ago, Ian M said:

For what it's worth, Cardiff fans through various mediums have intimated they have huge respect for the armed forces and would not have disrupted the minute's silence whatever happened in front of them, even if the sight of an English flag in an English stadium was somehow totally abhorrent to them.

I am still at a loss why we in England are so ashamed to celebrate our Nationality. The other members of the United Kingdom proudly celebrate their status and flag but we are somehow convinced that any demonstration of national pride will cause offence.

Yes there was a time many years ago when the St George's flag was a symbol more greatly embraced by far right groups but for decades now, ownership has been reclaimed of the flag by the ordinary Joe. Maybe if we stopped fearing offending people, they could celebrate our nationality with us just like many do around the globe when St Patrick's day comes around?

Its because we English are the only country in the World when you show the national flag in our own country are termed racist 

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Pezo

Pezo

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30 minutes ago, Ian M said:

For what it's worth, Cardiff fans through various mediums have intimated they have huge respect for the armed forces and would not have disrupted the minute's silence whatever happened in front of them, even if the sight of an English flag in an English stadium was somehow totally abhorrent to them.

I am still at a loss why we in England are so ashamed to celebrate our Nationality. The other members of the United Kingdom proudly celebrate their status and flag but we are somehow convinced that any demonstration of national pride will cause offence.

Yes there was a time many years ago when the St George's flag was a symbol more greatly embraced by far right groups but for decades now, ownership has been reclaimed of the flag by the ordinary Joe. Maybe if we stopped fearing offending people, they could celebrate our nationality with us just like many do around the globe when St Patrick's day comes around?

I would even go as far as saying that if were not allowed to display the flag we are in effect handing back to the far right on a silver platter.

Edit : missed out the all important not.

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Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

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Posted

24 hours have passed now.. radio silence.

The lack of comment from Adam and Mark and bits and pieces I've heard indicates to me that this decision came from higher up. I think if it were his decision, Mark would've been on here by now to explain in fairness to him. 

I wonder how the club are going to play this one.. they can't possible just ignore it, there's too much momentum.

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ZiderEyed

ZiderEyed

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10 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

24 hours have passed now.. radio silence.

The lack of comment from Adam and Mark and bits and pieces I've heard indicates to me that this decision came from higher up. I think if it were his decision, Mark would've been on here by now to explain in fairness to him. 

I wonder how the club are going to play this one.. they can't possible just ignore it, there's too much momentum.

Is there an actual route we can go down to get an answer?

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