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slartibartfast

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In the wake of all these sex scandal revelations The Mirror's front page headline yesterday was about trainer Gaye Kellaway stating  that she was groped and "pushed up against a wall " by a famous "household name" jockey !

Now I'm sorry but if she's going to jump on the band wagon she should be made to name names. IF it's true she has nothing to fear. It's NOT fair on the rest of the jocks.......they will all be under suspicion!

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29 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

In the wake of all these sex scandal revelations The Mirror's front page headline yesterday was about trainer Gaye Kellaway stating  that she was groped and "pushed up against a wall " by a famous "household name" jockey !

Now I'm sorry but if she's going to jump on the band wagon she should be made to name names. IF it's true she has nothing to fear. It's NOT fair on the rest of the jocks.......they will all be under suspicion!

Part of my issue with all this situation is that everyone who is being named & shamed are technically being found guilty before it’s actually proven.

So it’s no longer innocent until proven guilty, they are now guilty until they can prove their innocence!! And don’t get me wrong, if any of these people are guilty for the crimes they are accused of, I hope they serve a long time in prison but for any of those that are innocent, their reputations & lives will be ruined by the mud that has been slung!!

Should someone who paid someone a compliment or flirted with someone (as was the norm years ago) really be treated like they carried out the worst of sexual crimes? To be safe now, you’d have to go to work or a pub now & not pay anyone a compliment or try & make a move on someone for fear of being accused of a sexually inappropriate act. There will be no more calling someone ‘love’ or ‘darling’ as it’s no longer acceptable. To be safe you’re best off saying hello & goodbye & that’s it!!

And if you do find someone you’re attracted to, you’ll have to have a conference meeting to make sure you have witnesses there to make sure that you didn’t say or do anything inappropriate that could be used against you in the future!!

The whole dating game is about to turn into a mine field.

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3 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Part of my issue with all this situation is that everyone who is being named & shamed are technically being found guilty before it’s actually proven.

So it’s no longer innocent until proven guilty, they are now guilty until they can prove their innocence!! And don’t get me wrong, if any of these people are guilty for the crimes they are accused of, I hope they serve a long time in prison but for any of those that are innocent, their reputations & lives will be ruined by the mud that has been slung!!

Should someone who paid someone a compliment or flirted with someone (as was the norm years ago) really be treated like they carried out the worst of sexual crimes? To be safe now, you’d have to go to work or a pub now & not pay anyone a compliment or try & make a move on someone for fear of being accused of a sexually inappropriate act. There will be no more calling someone ‘love’ or ‘darling’ as it’s no longer acceptable. To be safe you’re best off saying hello & goodbye & that’s it!!

And if you do find someone you’re attracted to, you’ll have to have a conference meeting to make sure you have witnesses there to make sure that you didn’t say or do anything inappropriate that could be used against you in the future!!

The whole dating game is about to turn into a mine field.

Are they really being accused of crimes?  If a drunken or misplaced amorous advance is a crime then we are in trouble, there isn’t going to be many blokes and no small number of women who aren’t guilty.  Is there no personal responsibility on the part of someone receiving an unwanted advance to firmly reject it?  If the person making the advances pursues it after a knockback, then that may well be past an acceptable point, but how would people ever get together without some banter and suggestion?

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3 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Are they really being accused of crimes?  If a drunken or misplaced amorous advance is a crime then we are in trouble, there isn’t going to be many blokes and no small number of women who aren’t guilty.  Is there no personal responsibility on the part of someone receiving an unwanted advance to firmly reject it?  If the person making the advances pursues it after a knockback, then that may well be past an acceptable point, but how would people ever get together without some banter and suggestion?

It's a tough one, generally, I think you have to be pretty flirty and forward to be 'groped'/'pushed against a wall' and it's hard to blame a man for trying to advance in situations like this. However, some women are naturally like this and may genuinely mean nothing by it, which puts you in a bit of a situation if you were to 'try it on'. The 21st century 'PC' definitely gets us thinking about it all a lot more, for the right or wrong reasons..

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40 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Should someone who paid someone a compliment or flirted with someone (as was the norm years ago) really be treated like they carried out the worst of sexual crimes? To be safe now, you’d have to go to work or a pub now & not pay anyone a compliment or try & make a move on someone for fear of being accused of a sexually inappropriate act. There will be no more calling someone ‘love’ or ‘darling’ as it’s no longer acceptable. To be safe you’re best off saying hello & goodbye & that’s it!!

And if you do find someone you’re attracted to, you’ll have to have a conference meeting to make sure you have witnesses there to make sure that you didn’t say or do anything inappropriate that could be used against you in the future!!

The whole dating game is about to turn into a mine field.

Utter nonsense.  If you cannot ask a lady out for a drink or pay her a compliment without making the person feel uneasy then I very much worry for you.  

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6 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Utter nonsense.  If you cannot ask a lady out for a drink or pay her a compliment without making the person feel uneasy then I very much worry for you.  

Not talking about me personally, there is absolutely no worries about me getting caught up in any of that sort of stuff!!

But when people are on the news complaining that someone told them they are pretty, is it not going a bit far?

 

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3 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

Not talking about me personally, there is absolutely no worries about me getting caught up in any of that sort of stuff!!

But when people are on the news complaining that someone told them they are pretty, is it not going a bit far?

 

Well I have missed anyone complaining about being called pretty.  Who was that?! 

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45 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Are they really being accused of crimes?  If a drunken or misplaced amorous advance is a crime then we are in trouble, there isn’t going to be many blokes and no small number of women who aren’t guilty.  Is there no personal responsibility on the part of someone receiving an unwanted advance to firmly reject it?  If the person making the advances pursues it after a knockback, then that may well be past an acceptable point, but how would people ever get together without some banter and suggestion?

And that was the point I was trying to make, as with my response to Dave, when a woman is complaining that a man told her she was pretty & she took it as offensive, what hope is there for anyone? If people are going to get offended by that, then no one will be able to share a laugh or a seemingly harmless joke with someone for fear of offending someone & being accused of a sexually inappropriate act.

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2 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Well I have missed anyone complaining about being called pretty.  Who was that?! 

She was on The BBC morning news even my 69 year-old Mum sat there & asked what the hell a bloke is supposed to do & that she could understand it if she had been told she was ugly or something but to be told she was pretty & to be offended seems a little OTT, even to my Mum!

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13 minutes ago, Tipps69 said:

She was on The BBC morning news even my 69 year-old Mum sat there & asked what the hell a bloke is supposed to do & that she could understand it if she had been told she was ugly or something but to be told she was pretty & to be offended seems a little OTT, even to my Mum!

Well that is one person and not having seen it, I am unsure of context.

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1 hour ago, Tipps69 said:

Part of my issue with all this situation is that everyone who is being named & shamed are technically being found guilty before it’s actually proven.

So it’s no longer innocent until proven guilty, they are now guilty until they can prove their innocence!! And don’t get me wrong, if any of these people are guilty for the crimes they are accused of, I hope they serve a long time in prison but for any of those that are innocent, their reputations & lives will be ruined by the mud that has been slung!!

Should someone who paid someone a compliment or flirted with someone (as was the norm years ago) really be treated like they carried out the worst of sexual crimes? To be safe now, you’d have to go to work or a pub now & not pay anyone a compliment or try & make a move on someone for fear of being accused of a sexually inappropriate act. There will be no more calling someone ‘love’ or ‘darling’ as it’s no longer acceptable. To be safe you’re best off saying hello & goodbye & that’s it!!

And if you do find someone you’re attracted to, you’ll have to have a conference meeting to make sure you have witnesses there to make sure that you didn’t say or do anything inappropriate that could be used against you in the future!!

The whole dating game is about to turn into a mine field.

Yes, but my point was she should name him (or go to the police) as it sounded almost like a rape attempt. To say that he was a "house hold name" jockey puts him in a very small field of runners (see what I did) one name springs immediately to my mind and if it wasn't him..............................!

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14 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Well that is one person and not having seen it, I am unsure of context.

Well similarly, someone is complaining that they had their knee touched, seems on cold hard fact that someone touched their knee is a massive overreaction but if that knee touch was by someone sticking their hand up her dress, while not being welcomed is out of order or was it a group of friends having a drink around a table in a pub & while they were all having a laugh & a joke, a bloke just puts his hand on her knee on top of her trousers or because her skirt was short enough to show her knee?

A lot of it isn’t given any context, all of these women that are claiming sexual assault after all these years, why have they waited & never said anything before? What were they doing in a man’s room late at night after being out drinking with these men, what were they expecting to happen?

And no, I’m not condoning any of it, as I’ve already said, anyone found guilty of such crimes should be suitably punished but there are two sides to every story.

We all know about people sleeping their way ‘up the ladder’ or for financial gain or for the fame of being with someone famous, it wasn’t right but it was done & it was fairly common place & as has been brought up since all this kicked off, another woman came out with her side of a story where she was paid off to be quite but now she’s made it public knowledge, the legal people are now saying she should be handing the money back!!

It’s all wrong on so many levels & by so many people on all sides of the incidents, the trouble is now, how is anything going to get proved? It’s all one person’s word against another, any forensic evidence is going to be long gone & many of the incidents happened many years ago & if any of it ever gets to the legal stage, the only winners will be the lawyers!!

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6 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

Yes, but my point was she should name him (or go to the police) as it sounded almost like a rape attempt. To say that he was a "house hold name" jockey puts him in a very small field of runners (see what I did) one name springs immediately to my mind and if it wasn't him..............................!

I understand what you’re saying but by naming him without him being found guilty (yet) could destroy an innocent man & then where does that leave everyone? He counter claims for a slur on his name & character & ends up claiming many thousands of pounds off of any media network that named him while he was technically innocent!

As we all know, the laws an ass & people can literally get away with murder if they have the money or know the right people!!

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9 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

Part of my issue with all this situation is that everyone who is being named & shamed are technically being found guilty before it’s actually proven.

So it’s no longer innocent until proven guilty, they are now guilty until they can prove their innocence!! And don’t get me wrong, if any of these people are guilty for the crimes they are accused of, I hope they serve a long time in prison but for any of those that are innocent, their reputations & lives will be ruined by the mud that has been slung!!

Should someone who paid someone a compliment or flirted with someone (as was the norm years ago) really be treated like they carried out the worst of sexual crimes? To be safe now, you’d have to go to work or a pub now & not pay anyone a compliment or try & make a move on someone for fear of being accused of a sexually inappropriate act. There will be no more calling someone ‘love’ or ‘darling’ as it’s no longer acceptable. To be safe you’re best off saying hello & goodbye & that’s it!!

And if you do find someone you’re attracted to, you’ll have to have a conference meeting to make sure you have witnesses there to make sure that you didn’t say or do anything inappropriate that could be used against you in the future!!

The whole dating game is about to turn into a mine field.

A long time in prison for touching a knee? Or having porn on their computer?(as long as it's not child porn)

 

Some of these "crimes are laughable"

 

There will be a lot of women going to jail for touching Russell Hartys knee every week if that's the case.  I mean fairs fair. I wonder how many famous people are going to be worried about their behaviour on his show now!

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On 11/6/2017 at 07:35, TRL said:

A long time in prison for touching a knee? Or having porn on their computer?(as long as it's not child porn)

 

Some of these "crimes are laughable"

 

There will be a lot of women going to jail for touching Russell Hartys knee every week if that's the case.  I mean fairs fair. I wonder how many famous people are going to be worried about their behaviour on his show now!

Spot on.  We are not talking about criminal offences here in the main, just 'inappropriate' (by today's standards) and tasteless behaviour.  Is that enough to ruin a person's career?  Kevin Spacey is a brilliant actor, whatever happens in his private life, and I would like the option to watch his films without being made to feel that I was condoning sex offences.  There are many instances of great artists, writers and musicians whose private lives were, shall we say, somewhat 'suspect', but that doesn't stop people enjoying their work.  The modern trend of removing any public figure from record because of events in their private life smacks of 1984 (after all, rewriting history and deleting people from the record was Winston Smith's job) - another thing George Orwell got right!

I don't get the double standards.  Is Led Zeppelin's music to be banned because of the well-documented (by the participants) episode with under-age groupies in Seattle in the early 1970s?   How come Phil Spector records are still played at Christmas while he languishes in jail for murder, but you don't hear much of Gary Glitter on the airwaves over here?   Chuck Berry was eulogised when he died recently, but once paid out more than £1m to prevent a charge being brought to court that he filmed women in the bathroom at a motel he owned.  The Daily Mail publicises cases of alleged harassment while blatantly objectifying women in the adjacent column.  The whole situation is absurdly full of double standards, and now people are committing suicide because of this ritual public shaming.

Hands up who's ever tried it on with someone and been knocked back?

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Some of this now is becoming trial by lynch mob, rumour etc.

I'm finding some of it to be deeply unsettling because this has turned to guilty until proven innocent (which is nigh on impossible in some cases because it's just one persons word against another).

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